Sonic The Hedgehog Miscellanies

[njiska]

Seeing as we've got one of these for Castlevania and Megaman, I figured why not one the blue blur? It also gives me an excuse to talk about my recent experience with the series.

As some of you know, I was supposed to be doing a marathon of the Silent Hill series, but for whatever reason I just haven't been able to get into SH4. With all that's been going on employment wise I've found myself looking for something to do to pass the time and I've ended up with Sonic the Hedgehog. I already owned pretty much all of the series up to Sonic Adventure 2, but aside from Sonic 2 I've never really spent that much time with them. So far in this marathon I've been playing the XBLA versions and for the first three games I did use save states to practice the bonus stages.

Sonic the Hedgehog (Genesis)

I really found this game to be a mixed bag. Green Hill and Star Light are classic, but Marble Zone is a slow, annoying POS and Scrap Brain has a completely unreasonable number of possible crushing deaths. Much harder game than I was expecting. On the plus side the Special Stages are straight forward and fun, making this probably the easiest of the classic series to get all of the emeralds in. I was surprised by the low number of rings in any given stage compared to later games, making a little bit of hunting required in Marble Zone Act 1 to get the Special Stage.

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Genesis)

One of my all time favourite Genesis games for the past 20 years and still just as fun to play today. The stages are bigger, faster, have more varied pathways and aside from Mystic Cave Zone, don't contain a bunch of bullshit. I absolutely love the feeling Sky Chase, Wing Fortress and Death Egg give you as the game comes to a close. It feels like an actual story is being told this time and that's something that would continue with the series in the future.

My only real complaint is with the special stages. Now I know they're considered classic, and they are super fun, but it bothers me that by Stage 4 or 5 it becomes next to impossible to beat them without having memorized the entire stage. This is primarily because the game doesn't really render rings or bombs until you're nearly on top of them. It wouldn't be such a problem if there was an easy way to retry and practice, but there's not and by the time you get another 50 rings and a checkpoint, the stage may not be as fresh in your memory as it should be. Much happier with later implementations of this style of special stage in games like Sonic 4: Episode II.

Sonic CD

Played the XBLA re-release and boy was I impressed. Widescreen graphics, optional Sonic 2-style spin dash, BOTH SOUNDTRACKS! This thing is just amazing. Look and plays like the original in every important aspect. Shows just how awesome the Retro Engine is. The only downside I found was that the JP opening and closing tracks are missing their lyrics. This is apparently due to a licensing issue and an unfortunate black eye on an otherwise perfect recreation. Fortunately I like "Sonic Boom" more than "Sonic - You Can Do Anything" so it wasn't a big deal.

Stages are once again great and I was really impressed by the level of detail Sega put into designing the four different time phases. I love having to go back in time to destroy Eggman's machine and the Metal Sonic projector. It's just such a neat little touch that give the game character. Of course you could also just get the Time Stones and prevent the whole thing from happening in the first place, which is another nice touch.

Again the only problem I have is with the special stages. Not that they're bad, I just really, really suck at them. I couldn't beat a single one because I had a hell of a time jumping into the UFOs. I just couldn't get the timing right for when I needed to jump.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles

This was my first time playing past the first Act of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Again, like Sonic CD, I was very impressed. Stage design is great, the challenge is steady and strong and I absolutely love that there's a transition animation between Acts and Zones showing how Sonic or Knuckles got there. It's something rarely done in platformers from that era and it helps to set the game apart from it's brethren. The game is also frigging long, but considering it's two games in one I guess that's to be expected. Possibly the best music in the classic series, especially with stages like Ice Cap Zone.

Special Zones were a nice change this time around. Hard, but doable on your first try and fun to play. I liked that you had to get them twice, once in each half, in order to unlock the final stage of the game. Unfortunately I fucking hate that final stage because if it takes you too long to defeat Eggman's first form you can actually run out of rings during the transition animation that lasts 15 seconds. Would it have killed them to just pause the timer like in later games? Or maybe force Sonic through enough rings to offset the time while it's happening? Aside from this BS, I loved the game.

Sonic Adventure

I was expecting the worst going into Sonic Adventure, but honestly the game is not that bad. Barring some camera issues, occasional glitching and the stupid invisible walls in the jungle, I had a lot of fun. Sonic's stages are fun, fast and full of high spots. Knuckles emerald hunting stages are a neat style of play that works due to the radar system. The other characters are kind of a let down, but thankfully their stories are short so it's not much of a chore to get through. It was interesting to see the story told from so many different angles and I think that's part of Adventure's charm.

Sonic Adventure 2

Oh god, the pain. I love the story, I love Shadow and Rouge, but there's just so much I hate about the game. The camera sucks even harder than Adventure's, Rouge/Knuckles gem finding missions are incredibly frustrating due to the changes made with the radar system (now shows each gem in order, rather than closest) and there's so much bullshit late in the game with glitchy mechanics. Such a shame because the game has so much potential.

On the plus side Sonic and Shadow's stages are generally well designed and the music is pretty great across the board. I particularly liked Crush 40's Live and Learn.

That's all I've gotten through so far, but I starting to play Sonic Heroes.

[trap15]

Sonic Team IRL

[Mortificator]

There's not much difference between the four teams in Sonic Heroes, either in story or gameplay. I'd recommend you just play through once, as whatever team you fancy, then download a save with the four runs completed and the Chaos Emeralds collected so you can play the Last Story.

I totally agree about Sonic Adventure 2; Sega did a great job on the story and characters while amplifying the gameplay flaws of its predecessor. You covered the treasure hunting levels, so I'll say that the lock-on shooting levels became much longer and are very bland. Oh, and those damn Artificial Chaos enemies always seemed to tag me.

There've been a lot of vocal songs in the series since Sonic CD, and I don't know if they're good in absolute musical terms, but they're fun and energetic. Pieces like the silly Knuckles raps in Adventure 2, the team themes in Heroes, and the final boss ballads about how awesome you are add to the atmosphere.

[Drum]

I thought Sonic CD was pretty dreadful. The level design is barf-o-rama. Sonic 2 is the best, but yeah, those special stages are bad bad bad.

[BIL]

I find the MD games unbearably vacant these days. I think I might've back when they came out, actually... the original has a neat style, colourful yet sterile, and a charming soundtrack that'll draw me back occasionally.

It's a shame the DC pair are so chock-full of boring diversions from the hedgehog levels. I quite enjoy those for the simple, blaring rollercoasters they are at their best. A Naomi Sonic title devoted to a half-hour or so of blazing spectacle with lots of setpieces and bosses might've been cool.

[Ruldra]

I found Sonic 1 to be the toughest to complete with all emeralds, but back then I thought you needed 100 rings to trigger the Special Stage. I had to play with a no-miss in mind or else I wouldn't find enough rings to reach the SS.

Sonic 2, while it's a great game, I think it has too many stages and drags on a bit too much. I wouldn't mind if a couple of zones were removed (Hill Top and Oil Ocean zones suck).

Sonic 3 is great. Sonic & Knuckles is fantastic and my favorite of the series. Unfortunately never played Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Sonic Advance 2 deserves a mention. I love when you can go through the level running all the time and never stopping, but in many cases this isn't possible. SA2 was made specifically to let you go from start to finish at full speed. You do need to memorize the levels but it's great when you pull it off, it's the perfect game to speedrun. I also like that even the boss fights are done while running.

Don't really care about the rest of the series. Still need to try out Sonic CD though.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Sonic Advance 2 deserves a mention. I love when you can go through the level running all the time and never stopping, but in many cases this isn't possible. SA2 was made specifically to let you go from start to finish at full speed. You do need to memorize the levels but it's great when you pull it off, it's the perfect game to speedrun. I also like that even the boss fights are done while running.

Would enforce the impression I had that Sega as game developer improved when they gave up on hardware.

[Skykid]

Sonic's 1 - 3, S&K and Sonic CD are all good fun, but I think special honorable mentions should go to the Master System's 1&2, which tend to be forgotten, despite improving on the MD versions in many ways. The original, particularly, has better stage design and plays a tighter game than MD Sonic 1, has a great Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack and a nice learning curve.

Would enforce the impression I had that Sega as game developer improved when they gave up on hardware.

You never fail to amaze me dude.

[SuperPang]

Special honorable mentions should go to the Master System's 1&2, which tend to be forgotten, despite improving on the MD versions in many ways. The original, particularly, has better stage design and plays a tighter game than MD Sonic 1, has a great Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack and a nice learning curve.

Balls.

I had a MS back in the day and played Sonic a lot. It's decent enough for an 8 bit system and you're right, there is some nice music and level design (I like searching for chaos emeralds too) but I bought it again for nostalgias sake a few years back and realised the frame rate is dreadful and it's ridiculously easy. I finished it on my first go in under an hour with one set of lives. The Mega Drive games are satisfyingly challenging.

Sonic 2 MD is the undisputed king in my book. Sonic CD would be a challenger if not for the slowdown, silly spin dash and again, too easy.

[Skykid]

Balls.

I had a MS back in the day and played Sonic a lot. It's decent enough for an 8 bit system and you're right, there is some nice music and level design (I like searching for chaos emeralds too) but I bought it again for nostalgias sake a few years back and realised the frame rate is dreadful and it's ridiculously easy. I finished it on my first go in under an hour with one set of lives. The Mega Drive games are satisfyingly challenging.

Sonic 2 MD is the undisputed king in my book. Sonic CD would be a challenger if not for the slowdown, silly spin dash and again, too easy.

You're probably right, I just distinctly remember thinking MS Sonic 1 was more enjoyable than MD Sonic 1, at least as a kid. It had a more conventional stage design (logs over waterfalls etc) but felt more concentrated. Then again if it's as easy as you say, it's probably that that made it so enjoyable/memorable... and hunting for Chaos Emeralds.

For the record, MD Sonic 2 is my fave also.

[null1024]

Unfortunately I fucking hate that final stage because if it takes you too long to defeat Eggman's first form you can actually run out of rings during the transition animation that lasts 15 seconds. Would it have killed them to just pause the timer like in later games? Or maybe force Sonic through enough rings to offset the time while it's happening? Aside from this BS, I loved the game.

It is definitely pretty hateful, I usually make sure I have over 50 rings when finishing the first form. And yeah, S3&K is the best of the games, hands down.

---

There is no reason for anyone to play Sonic 3 separate from Sonic and Knuckles or vice versa, unless you like Sonic 3's music more [I do, but there's a romhack that fixes that ], or unless you simply don't have both parts. get them get them get them

I thought Sonic CD was pretty dreadful. The level design is barf-o-rama. Sonic 2 is the best, but yeah, those special stages are bad bad bad.

Sonic CD's level design is made to do one thing: stop you from doing timewarps. More specifically, stop you from doing them mere moments before they would trigger. In that regard, it succeeds, and it makes the levels have a very obstacle-course feel, where to go consistently fast [and be able to go to the past to destroy the machines], you need to learn the course. I personally like it, but I can definitely see people disliking it, it seems really messy and almost randomly cobbled together.

The more I play Sonic 2, the less I like it. The level design is boring compared to both the game before it and the game after it. Mystic Cave Zone is probably my least favorite zone of the Genesis games, with Wing Fortress and Metropolis [why the hell is this 3 acts] right behind.

I used to hate Sonic 1 as a kid, but it's a bit different from the others, being much more heavily based on momentum control because of the lack of spindash, and apart from Labyrinth Zone [which I cannot stand to this day], it's definitely grown on me.

Sonic Advance 2 deserves a mention. I love when you can go through the level running all the time and never stopping, but in many cases this isn't possible. SA2 was made specifically to let you go from start to finish at full speed. You do need to memorize the levels but it's great when you pull it off, it's the perfect game to speedrun. I also like that even the boss fights are done while running.

Would enforce the impression I had that Sega as game developer improved when they gave up on hardware.

Dimps developed the Sonic Advance series. Sega would definitely have been looking over their shoulder, but it was Dimps who made and designed them. SAdv2 is an alright game, that at times emphasizes speed over interesting level design [and thus, you end up with Hot Crater Zone, which is probably the worst offender in the whole game, notice how the level slopes down nearly the whole way through].
Lots of old school purists despise it for that, but screw 'em, it's at least fun. The running bosses are stupid though, with special mention to the Ice Paradise one, which actually becomes easier after Eggman starts dropping bombs faster.

I think SAdv3 is a better game [takes the more classic level design of SAdv1 and the speed, rails, and tricks from SAdv2, and smushes them together], but that game suffers from bottomless pit syndrome. The tag partner thing was pretty interesting too.

---

full disclosure: I think Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one of the best platforming games ever, with brilliant, big levels, [usually] interesting boss fights, and brilliant visuals and sound.

[Lordstar]

Sonic Team IRL

why has that not got more views?!

[trap15]

Because I just uploaded it for this thread The original video has over 550k views though, so it has been seen quite a bit

[ryu]

i recently marathoned pretty much all 3d sonic games myself and somehow ended up liking sonic adventure 2 the least, even though i used to love that game when i first played it way back on the gamecube. sonic adventure however hadn't done much for me back then, but the sonic and tails stages were a blast this time around. everything else still felt unnecessary though.
sonic adventure 2 is way too straight forward. there's not enough platforming in the sonic and shadow stages, and the tails and eggman stages are just way too slow. the game's probably most enjoyable with knuckles and rouge, almost ironically since everyone seems to hate these stages. the plot would be alright if it wasn't trying too hard.
i somehow never liked sonic heroes much even though it plays more like sonic adventure with lots of platforming. the game's plain boring. probably because the stage themes aren't that interesting and because you have to play the game four times to properly complete it. as suggested before it's best not to do that and to download some save file off the net.

sonic 2006 had a lot of potential, but ended up awful for reasons similar to sonic adventure. the overworld's and load times are unbearable. it's said that the game wasn't properly finished when it was released (which is easy to tell), but i don't think it would have been any better had the staff been able to keep working for some more months.
so some of the stages are actually somewhat good, and at least some cutscenes are so awful that they're actually entertaining. not so much in a good way though.

sonic unleashed is another case of wasted potential (that seems to run in the series now). more unnecessary overworld maps, more unnecessary cutscenes. the day stages are actually very good though. the night stages rely too much on the overly straight-forward combat so they're not much fun, even though they would be pretty good if more of the enemies could have been avoided.
sonic generations is pretty good, but the stages aren't as well designed as they are in unleashed and the classic stages didn't do much for me. might as well play the classic. they're infinitely better.

sonic and the secret rings and the black knight are both pretty weird. especially the former in which sonic talks about 10 times as much as his character usually allows for. sonic & the secret rings has got some really weird controls so that it's challenge in itself to just control sonic properly - and that's somehow really fun. the pumping soundtrack definitely helps as well.
sonic and the black knight is just terrible. all you do is keep holding the control stick forward while waggling the wiimote like a madman ... at least the game's only about 3-4 hours long if you skip the optional stages.

sonic 2 is very good, but i'll never get why people seem to prefer it over sonic 3 and sonic & knuckles. save for aquatic ruin and chemical plant the stage themes aren't very interesting and the music's not as consistently awesome as in the other 2d games. sonic 3 & knuckles is the height of the series for me. although i prefer to play them separately since each on their own they've got the perfect playtime for a single session.

[njiska]

There's not much difference between the four teams in Sonic Heroes, either in story or gameplay. I'd recommend you just play through once, as whatever team you fancy, then download a save with the four runs completed and the Chaos Emeralds collected so you can play the Last Story.

Yeah, I'm aware of this, and I'm not sure if I'm going to do all four stories or not. On the one hand it's repetitive, on the other, I actually kind of like the gameplay in Sonic Heroes as the camera is way less of a problem. At a minimum I'll be doing Team Sonic and Team Chaotix as their gameplay is the only one that's really different. I will get the chaos emeralds myself as well.

I totally agree about Sonic Adventure 2; Sega did a great job on the story and characters while amplifying the gameplay flaws of its predecessor. You covered the treasure hunting levels, so I'll say that the lock-on shooting levels became much longer and are very bland. Oh, and those damn Artificial Chaos enemies always seemed to tag me.

Artificial Chaos would be 1000x less annoying if they didn't keep shielding their weak spot. It's not so much of a problem with Sonic or Shadow, but Eggman and Tails have just a hell of a time with them. And yeah, their gameplay is generally very bland, though the space sections with boosters is kind of fun. My bigger issue though is that they drop like a fucking stone. Which I get, being giant hunks of metal, but it gets super annoying with awkward jumps and quicksand.

There've been a lot of vocal songs in the series since Sonic CD, and I don't know if they're good in absolute musical terms, but they're fun and energetic. Pieces like the silly Knuckles raps in Adventure 2, the team themes in Heroes, and the final boss ballads about how awesome you are add to the atmosphere.

I fucking love Crush 40. All of their Sonic songs speak to be and I have their CD in my car. That said, the rest of the vocal songs are a bit of a mixed bag. The Knuckles raps you mentioned aren't good songs by any means, but in the context of the game they're kind of silly and fit with the world. Especially once you get all his upgrades and he's totally blinged out.

Sonic 3 is great. Sonic & Knuckles is fantastic and my favorite of the series. Unfortunately never played Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

It's the only way to play.

And yeah, I hear good things about Advance and Advance 2 and I will try to play them in the future. Advance 3 I'm getting mixed-bag reaction for.

And if you have a PS3 or XBOX 360 download the Retro Engine port of Sonic CD. It's only $5 bucks and in my opinion is the version to play.

sonic 2006 had a lot of potential, but ended up awful for reasons similar to sonic adventure. the overworld's and load times are unbearable. it's said that the game wasn't properly finished when it was released (which is easy to tell), but i don't think it would have been any better had the staff been able to keep working for some more months.
so some of the stages are actually somewhat good, and at least some cutscenes are so awful that they're actually entertaining. not so much in a good way though.

Sonic 06 is an unfinished piece of garbage and that's why it sucks. It's hard to say what the game would have been lit if development was allowed to continue as there could have still be majar changes to tighten everything up planned.

Interestingly a Let's Player I like has been doing a month long review of Sonic 06. Something like 150 minutes at this point. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... VBDLaAcPGz

[njiska]

Wanted to do a seperate post so this didn't get lost in the pile of replies, but I am planning to keep this going with:

- Sonic Heroes
- Sonic 06
- Sonic Unleashed
- Sonic Colours
- Sonic Generations (Again)

- Sonic and the Secret Rings
- Sonic and the Black Knight
- Sonic Riders
- Sonic Riders Zero: Gravity

If I can find real carts I'd like to play the SMS games, but they seem to be kind of hard to come by in North America. I do own them on Game Gear though.

I'd also like to point out, and this will probably get me a lot of flack, but so far I've been greatly enjoying the 3D era of Sonic more than the 3D era of Mario. 3D Mario games always seemed pointless, without direction and kind of repetitive to me. The 3D Sonic games, even with their problems, do not. I like the fact that there's a huge focus placed on telling a good story in Sonic Adventure and doubly so in Sonic Adventure 2. I like that Sonic Heroes (the four stories are basically difficulty settings), despite having less focus on story, is basically a classic 2D sonic game done in the 3D world and the team mechanic works. 06 and Unleashed might fail, but Colours and Generations also hold promise. Probably alone in this view, but at least I have my reasons.

[Ruldra]

Advance 3 I'm getting mixed-bag reaction for.

Advance 3 drops the fast paced setting of the prequel and goes back to heavy platforming. I completed it 100% and enjoyed it, but this time around you need to find lots and lots of Chao creatures to unlock the Special Stages. It's very annoying when you're down to a couple and you have no idea where they are.

Also completed Sonic Riders. Great arcade racer, too bad online play wasn't available back when it was released.

[Ruldra]

Sonic Team IRL

This will probably interest you: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24023

[Ed Oscuro]

Sonic Team IRL

I was actually expecting some kind of stodgy "meet the developers" bit of Sega history from an obscure VHS or LD...this was just as good, especially for the runtime.

[Ganelon]

Sonic CD's special stages are OK by themselves but very annoying without Mega CD slowdown (not sure about the recent XBL/PSN release but the version on Sonic Gems Collection was far too fast). Lack of visual depth at full speed provides for more frustration than excitement. For stage design, Sonic CD clearly adopts Sonic 1's jumbo areas for better or worse. Stages are a bit too long but that does add some challenge in finding the speed to time travel. The concept of different timelines is pretty cool artistically and musically (with the JP soundtrack; the US soundtrack is fine too but doesn't fit with the past themes as originally intended).

It's normal that not everyone will be a fan of all of Sonic 2's stages (I don't like Metropolis Zone) but I think everyone can agree that there's a lot of diversity in them. And unlike the path taken in Sonic CD, there's a clear theme to each one. Some of the expansiveness was sacrificed but that's not a huge deal for me when there's plenty of opportunity for speed. Sonic 3 is solid all around but too short for a single game (ironic how the shortest game is the one with battery saves). Sonic & Knuckles is more of the same excellence but I agree that the final zone is disappointing. The Game Gear installments are severely hampered by the resolution. Sonic & Tails 1&2 (AKA Chaos and Triple Trouble AKA the portable equivalents of Sonic 2 and 3) are the best of the bunch and great portable games in their own right but still not close in any metric to even MD Sonic 1.

Sonic 1's special stages are really easy for me. There's so much leeway in time and plenty of control. Sonic 2's special stages are classic but I'm not a fan. Later stages require knowing beforehand the chute layout (not easily winnable even by abusing pause), which can be annoying, esp. when playing as Sonic & Tails together. But the reward makes up for that if you get all the Chaos Emeralds early enough (it's almost pointless near the end since Super Sonic can be a pain in Wing Fortress Zone and can't be used afterward). Knuckles' Chaotix's special stages is basically a much tougher version of Sonic 3&K special stages are classic, and there's not much to complain with the awesome music. I remember beating the last stage on my 2nd try (with pausing) so memorization isn't required. And Hyper Sonic is simply a blast to play as.

It's interesting how none of the Sonic spinoffs were that great. As a Game Gear title, Sonic Drift 1&2 couldn't compare to Mario Kart at all. Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine looked better as Puyo Puyo. Tails' Skypatrol is horrible. Knuckles' Chaotix looked beautiful but was very gimmicky. I don't care much for the series after Sonic & Knuckles. I do like Sonic the Fighters but there's not much reason to play it over Virtua Fighter Kids and not much reason to play VF Kids instead of VF2. Sonic R happens to be one of my personal favorites but I can certainly understand why others find everything about the game distractions from actual racing; I don't really even think about it as a racing game.

As for favorite Sonic, I slightly prefer 3&K over 2 but what does it really matter if both are 10/10 top sidescrollers?

[njiska]

Sonic CD's special stages are OK by themselves but very annoying without Mega CD slowdown (not sure about the recent XBL/PSN release but the version on Sonic Gems Collection was far too fast). Lack of visual depth at full speed provides for more frustration than excitement.

Yeah, it's full speed. No slowdown at all. Maybe that's my problem. I'll try giving my CD version a shot and see how it handles.

[powersoul]

Back then, I only had the Genesis system, which brought to me Sonic, Sonic2 and Sonic3&Knuckles. Those were my kiddo days, I didn't know you could combine carts into a complete game, so ended up playing them separately.

With my recent xbox360 console, I picked up Sonic Generations. I don't know what were others thinking about this, but I felt it brought me right back to the days when the franchise was good. Those games in between, I tried them at a friend's house, who had a Saturn, and those didn't feel right.

Sonic Heroes... The music is great, but quirky controls kinda put me off (especially true with most 'modern sonic' series), although I did put some effort into completing the first loop on all teams.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles remains a favorite of mine even till today.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Sonic Advance. WTF? Huge levels with routes to special stages which close themselves off. Then when you get to said special stage, it's totally unplayable. Seriously dumb as hell. I finished the main game but could I be arsed to slog it out with those special stages? Could I fuck.

A lot of love for the SMS Sonic and Sonic 2. More traditional platforming in the first game rather than the "run run run hit obstacle" of the Mega Drive version and some nice (albeit limited) variation in the second with the hang glider and mine carts. Sonic Chaos goes wrong in trying to be more like a stripped down Mega Drive game and is offensively easy.

The Sonic Adventure games are sweet when you're doing Sonic-like stages. Boring Knuckles stages, the dumb as hell fishing and shoehorning the robot shooter stages from the first game into Tails and Robotnik? What the hell guys?! How did you screw up something so fundamentally awesome?

Sonic 2 on the Mega Drive is pretty much the pinnacle of the series, even with the special stages being memorisers for the last couple and bringing Tails along ruins them unless a second player controls him. Gets the stage variety right. The boss fights right. The level layouts right. Basically, it's the nuts.

[null1024]

Sonic Advance. WTF? Huge levels with routes to special stages which close themselves off. Then when you get to said special stage, it's totally unplayable. Seriously dumb as hell. I finished the main game but could I be arsed to slog it out with those special stages? Could I fuck.

Wait, what?
Getting to special stages in Advance 1 isn't a problem, especially not compared to Advance 2 or 3. They are retarded as hell once inside, and I wouldn't blame you if you Gamesharked all the emeralds. Or better yet, don't even bother, because the extra fight is the dumbest thing ever, piss easy and not interesting.

Also, every time someone says Sonic 2 is the best, I think they need to go play Sonic 3 & Knuckles: it's bigger, with great bosses that actually have some sort of difficulty than "hit 7 times before it goes off screen, hit again", it has more interesting level design, better bosses, better special stages, better EVERYTHING, christ!
Just do it. The insta-shield is amazing too, it gives you the ability to skillfully deal with shit like projectiles and fully-armored enemies [like the orb with fire balls], and I wish Advance 1's insta-shield was like it, all Advance 1's does is boost your damage radius for a bit, it's stupid.

[Friendly]

This is where that short video came from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PQc_S-FPi0
("SONIC R IS THE BEST GAME EVAAAR")

[Ganelon]

Wow, just about every factual claim in that Sonic R "review" is incorrect. Yeah, it's just for fun but t's disappointing that the decent production values in the video itself weren't complemented by a quick read through the game manual and/or 1 hour of practice through the game itself. I thought it'd be more about questionable controls, unclear course maps, and creepy Tails Doll (that wasn't even unlocked).

[njiska]

Also, every time someone says Sonic 2 is the best, I think they need to go play Sonic 3 & Knuckles: it's bigger, with great bosses that actually have some sort of difficulty than "hit 7 times before it goes off screen, hit again", it has more interesting level design, better bosses, better special stages, better EVERYTHING, christ!
Just do it. The insta-shield is amazing too, it gives you the ability to skillfully deal with shit like projectiles and fully-armored enemies [like the orb with fire balls], and I wish Advance 1's insta-shield was like it, all Advance 1's does is boost your damage radius for a bit, it's stupid.

A lot of people just forget about Sonic 3 & Knuckles because it's a lock on game and they only remember SOnic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles individually. Frankly they're all great games regardless.

[njiska]

Arg Sonic Heroes. I've been picking away at this game, doing only an act or two at a time, but now it's starting to get really frustrating. Namely I'm being bothered by two things: The Boss Fights and the sloppy level design.

The Boss fights are annoying me because they're either incredibly borring, like Robot Carnival, or tedious and annoying like the Egg Albatross. I don't mind a difficult boss fight, but I hate having to overcome bullshit. Namely bullshit like the camera pointing in the wrong direction or bottomless pits I get dumped in without warning (including once off a cutscene).

The Sloppy level design comes in places like Rail Canyon, where there are three speed pads that are supposed to fire you on to the rails, but the middle one fires you slightly too far to the left and dumps you in a bottomless pit. There's been a couple of spring sections as well where the characters just lose all momentum and drop like a stone. You can tell this is not what's meant to happen, but it happens anyways. I'm really enjoying the game otherwise, but this shit is starting to wear on me even worse than it did in Sonic Adventure 2. Dreading the experience I'll have when I move on to Shadow.

[Ed Oscuro]

random strange thing: sonic account on twizzler

[null1024]

The Sloppy level design comes in places like Rail Canyon, where there are three speed pads that are supposed to fire you on to the rails, but the middle one fires you slightly too far to the left and dumps you in a bottomless pit. There's been a couple of spring sections as well where the characters just lose all momentum and drop like a stone. You can tell this is not what's meant to happen, but it happens anyways. I'm really enjoying the game otherwise, but this shit is starting to wear on me even worse than it did in Sonic Adventure 2. Dreading the experience I'll have when I move on to Shadow.

Rail Canyon was so bad that I just stopped playing. Heroes in general wasn't as enjoyable as SA2, but up till reaching that point, I had hope for it to at least be decent. The bosses were crap, the levels are meh, and the team thing was... there, it wasn't a particularly bad idea, but it wasn't very good.

Any time I think to go and replay Heroes, I quickly talk myself out and pop in SA2.