New Graphics card recommendation on par with GeForce 9800GT

[ST Dragon]

Until now I was using an Albatron Geforce 9800GT 512MB card which I bought for ~100euros back in 2009.
http://www.mwave.com.au/productarchive.asp?sku=42050318

What was good about this card is that it had a 256bit memory bus / interface and pretty much every 3D game played nice and fast on high graphics settings @1280x1024 resolution (Aliens VS Predator 3, Rage, Command & Conquer 3 & 4, Duke Nukem Forever, Black Mesa Half Life Mod, HL2, etc...)

How ever it got toasted the other day, so I now I want to buy a new graphics card of at least equivalent performance and similar price range to play the upcoming Doom 3 BFG and some of the upcoming games. (Preferably nvidia as their drivers are better)

I checked the current nvidia cards, but noticed that all the cards of that price even though they have better & faster GPUs and more & better video RAM (DDR5 / 1GB/2GB), their memory bus / interface goes only up to 128bit or 192bit the most, which I imagine will bottleneck these cards.

Also I noticed that none of the current GFX cards feature a TV-Out output to connect my old CRT TV via Scart or RCA and I don't want to have to buy a new LCD/TFT TV.

My PC specs:
Intel Core 2 Duo @2.4GHZ
4GB Ram @800MHZ
Windows 7 32Bit
19" 4:3 TFT Eizo S1931 Monitor @60HZ
My motherboard Asus P5B-E:
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_ ... ifications

Features 1 x PCIe x16 slot to connect a GFX card on.

So which card should I get to cover my above needs?

Thanks in advance.

[TodayIsForgotten]

Why not just buy another 9800? You'll probably want to go used if you are looking for TV-Out. Unless they make usb-mini to svideo or rca.

I don't think i'd worry much about the interface as much as i would the ram (the type as well) and the core clocks and stuff like that. You could look at benchmarks if you're into that kind of thing if it makes you feel any better.

I'd look into the 200 series (used) for GTX cards. Otherwise get a nice 500 series TI for 180 or so on amazon. Call it a day.

[gct]

Where are you located? Old 9800GT cards still pop up with some frequency on my local craigslist for like under $30 tops. Maybe you can just buy up a stock of old cards.

I am also fond of the TV-out capability, I think most of the Geforce 200-series have them also.

But honestly, you most likely don't need to worry about any kind of memory bottleneck for the games/settings you listed while using a more modern card i.e. anything above a GTS 450. You will lose the TV-out, but you should be able to get a VGA to TV transcoder, or it's really time for a new monitor Just make sure to get one with 1:1 and/or proper aspect scaling pixel modes (and instant/game mode)!

edit: Gah, beaten!

[shmuppyLove]

I'm in a very similar situation, and also had a 9800GT just go tits up on me. I've been very greedily eyeing the outgoing GTX 550 Ti cards. They can be had for < $100 after rebate, have 1GB GDDR5 memory and a 192-bit memory bus. I also thought it was strange that a lot of the current cards seem to have gone to lower memory bus widths, but I think it's a side-effect of higher density and faster memory. And you're also focusing on only one aspect of the overall performance of the card; the new cards still perform better and actually have higher bandwidth.

I wouldn't be worried about performance at 1280x1024 on any current card. The mainstream benchmark these days is 1920x1080.

I don't think you'll find anything on the market right now with legacy TV out; everything has transitioned to HDMI.

[ST Dragon]

Where are you located? Old 9800GT cards still pop up with some frequency on my local craigslist for like under $30 tops. Maybe you can just buy up a stock of old cards.

I am also fond of the TV-out capability, I think most of the Geforce 200-series have them also.

But honestly, you most likely don't need to worry about any kind of memory bottleneck for the games/settings you listed while using a more modern card i.e. anything above a GTS 450. You will lose the TV-out, but you should be able to get a VGA to TV transcoder, or it's really time for a new monitor Just make sure to get one with 1:1 and/or proper aspect scaling pixel modes (and instant/game mode)!

edit: Gah, beaten!

Thanks for your reply.

Concerning this...

Just make sure to get one with 1:1 and/or proper aspect scaling pixel modes (and instant/game mode)!

Please excuse my ignorance as I have not kept up to date with modern LCD TVS, but what does that mean?
Maybe a link to some modern LCD TVs with that specific game mode or a specs info chart?

Thanks in advance.

[ST Dragon]

So is there some kind of a TV-Out output adapter (PCI/USB) I could install on my PC to connect my CRT TV, if I was to buy one for the new GFX cards that only feature HDMI output?

Old school Genesis, SNES, Saturn & PS-1/2 Shmups don't look that great on LCF/TFT/LED TVs...
So I would prefer to maintain my current CRT TV.

[shmuppyLove]

So is there some kind of a TV-Out output adapter (PCI/USB) I could install on my PC to connect my CRT TV, if I was to buy one for the new GFX cards that only feature HDMI output?

Old school Genesis, SNES, Saturn & PS-1/2 Shmups don't look that great on LCF/TFT/LED TVs...
So I would prefer to maintain my current CRT TV.

You would need to get an HDMI to composite video converter, if you want to display the output from the new card.

As an example:

http://dx.com/p/hdmi-to-composite-s-vid ... 407?item=6

[gct]

I guess it's more of a monitor thing, but I suppose it applies especially much to televisions now.

Consumers like really smooth motion. Televisions will advertise things like 120Hz, 600Hz or ridiculous crap like that, while we all know the source signal is not coming in at that frequency. What happens is that the TV reads two frames of source input and generates however many frames in between by interpolation. But it can't see into the future so basically everything you see on the LCD is lagged in time by at least one frame.

This has an extremely negative effect on gaming because the lag is two-fold: You don't see what's going on in the game until it has already past, and then you provide inputs based on what you see - but what you see is old information so your input might not be appropriate for what is actually happening in the game. e.g. according to the video game, you might already be dead or unavoidably near death, but according to the TV you are still alive and have a chance. To give a more shmuppy example, let's say there is a solid curtain of bullets descending the screen, with a little gap in it, and obviously you want to move your ship through the gap. It becomes very difficult to execute when there is display lag, because the gap and your ship are not actually where you think they are.

Some monitors and televisions will allow you to disable the interpolation so that you see what the video stream is sending with no lag.

I hope that helped... if there is still confusion then maybe another member can explain more clearly (please!)

And yea, if you are able to keep your CRT TV, by all means do so! The monitor suggestion was more a thing for your PC gaming

[Ed Oscuro]

You need a graphic card with S-Video output. Cards today don't have RCA output. An adapter from S-Video to RCA jack (the yellow one) is included in the card's package. You need another cable from your MoBo's speakers output jack to the TV's red and white input jacks to get the stereo sound.

Low cost card can be the ATI 4650. Any PCIe card with S-Video output will do.

That post is from 2010 so of course the card mentioned is not much better'n what you've got.

Here CNet has a list of cards which ostensibly have an S-Video option.

[ST Dragon]

So is there some kind of a TV-Out output adapter (PCI/USB) I could install on my PC to connect my CRT TV, if I was to buy one for the new GFX cards that only feature HDMI output?

Old school Genesis, SNES, Saturn & PS-1/2 Shmups don't look that great on LCF/TFT/LED TVs...
So I would prefer to maintain my current CRT TV.

You would need to get an HDMI to composite video converter, if you want to display the output from the new card.

As an example:

http://dx.com/p/hdmi-to-composite-s-vid ... 407?item=6

Wow! Thanks! I didn't even know such thing existed.

I also noticed that there is an even cheaper option like a DVI to RCA cable:
http://www.amazon.com/DVI-I-RCA-compone ... B000Q6RL9Q

Not sure which of the 2 options will give out the best picture quality though?

[ST Dragon]

I guess it's more of a monitor thing, but I suppose it applies especially much to televisions now.

Consumers like really smooth motion. Televisions will advertise things like 120Hz, 600Hz or ridiculous crap like that, while we all know the source signal is not coming in at that frequency. What happens is that the TV reads two frames of source input and generates however many frames in between by interpolation. But it can't see into the future so basically everything you see on the LCD is lagged in time by at least one frame.

This has an extremely negative effect on gaming because the lag is two-fold: You don't see what's going on in the game until it has already past, and then you provide inputs based on what you see - but what you see is old information so your input might not be appropriate for what is actually happening in the game. e.g. according to the video game, you might already be dead or unavoidably near death, but according to the TV you are still alive and have a chance. To give a more shmuppy example, let's say there is a solid curtain of bullets descending the screen, with a little gap in it, and obviously you want to move your ship through the gap. It becomes very difficult to execute when there is display lag, because the gap and your ship are not actually where you think they are.

Some monitors and televisions will allow you to disable the interpolation so that you see what the video stream is sending with no lag.

I hope that helped... if there is still confusion then maybe another member can explain more clearly (please!)

And yea, if you are able to keep your CRT TV, by all means do so! The monitor suggestion was more a thing for your PC gaming

Thanks! Yes I understand what you wrote.
Interestingly my EIZO 19" S1931 with a PVA overdrive panel, On/Off Response Time 16 ms (typical)
& Midtone Response Time1 8 ms (typical)
http://www.eizo.de/pool/products/_en_/spec/S1931.pdf

Does not even mention if it features 1:1 and/or proper aspect scaling pixel modes (and instant/game mode).

How ever now that you mention it, I have seen the sign "Gamer Ready" on many new LCT/TFT/LED TVs, but not on PC monitors?
Does your monitor mention it on its specs and if so what are you using?

[shmuppyLove]

You would need to get an HDMI to composite video converter, if you want to display the output from the new card.

As an example:

http://dx.com/p/hdmi-to-composite-s-vid ... 407?item=6

Wow! Thanks! I didn't even know such thing existed.

I also noticed that there is an even cheaper option like a DVI to RCA cable:
http://www.amazon.com/DVI-I-RCA-compone ... B000Q6RL9Q

Not sure which of the 2 options will give out the best picture quality though?

No no no no no no no no no no no



Sorry to be so harsh, but you cannot cannot cannot do things like that.

Just because you can find a magical cable with a USB connector on one end and fuck I dunno ... BEER on the other, does not mean you can convert USB to beer.

That cable you linked is probably for some projector that has some whackadoodle way of sending a component video signal out through it's DVI connector and the manufacturer hates puppies and kittens and ice cream and didn't want to spend 2 cents more to put proper connectors on it. Please please please don't ever confuse the connector that something uses with the type of signal that's coming out of it, they are not the same thing.

Just read through the information on the Amazon page and you will answer your own question and probably see a dozen other people that made the same mistake.

[louisg]

LOL. Maybe that'd work for DVI's analog pins but not its digital pins?

Man, I want that USB to beer cable. Do you know how kick-ass that'd be??

OH SHIT I think I found one! Ethernet-to-beer! Check it out! http://old.testmy.net/t-11189

[njiska]

Sorry to be so harsh, but you cannot cannot cannot do things like that.

Just because you can find a magical cable with a USB connector on one end and fuck I dunno ... BEER on the other, does not mean you can convert USB to beer.

That cable you linked is probably for some projector that has some whackadoodle way of sending a component video signal out through it's DVI connector and the manufacturer hates puppies and kittens and ice cream and didn't want to spend 2 cents more to put proper connectors on it. Please please please don't ever confuse the connector that something uses with the type of signal that's coming out of it, they are not the same thing.

Just read through the information on the Amazon page and you will answer your own question and probably see a dozen other people that made the same mistake.

That definitely won't do what he's looking for, but there's nothing whackadoodle about that cable. In fact I own one. It's just a standard DVI-I to RGB cable. The three RCA ends are connected to pins C1 (Analog Red), C2 (Analog Green) and C3 (Analog Blue) of the DVI-I connector with the signals from Pin 8 (Analog V Sync) and C4 (Analog H Sync) merged into a composite sync signal that is then added to Green. So RGB with Sync on Green, basically. However it's next to useless as there doesn't appear to be a lot of regular devices out there that support sync on green. From the description of the product it's intended to be used with a DVI device that is outputting Y,Pb,Pr over the Analog RGB pins.

[BryanM]

Yeah, a converter box that plugs in to a power outlet is necessary to convert a signal.

[gct]

A lot of good input here.

ST Dragon, _if_ you don't end up replacing your video card with another old Geforce 8/9/200 series, I advise you to be very cautious about what HDMI to NTSC boxes to get. The vast majority of these boxes are made for general consumers who 99.9% of the time don't give a crap about interlacing and resolutions and whatnot, and surprisingly often don't even care about aspect ratios.

When shopping for a converter, try to look carefully at the specifications to see if the NTSC output allows for any kind of the image adjustments that you need. Unfortunately the cheap converters often don't and it's sometimes only the professional or gaming-oriented boxes that will, and those cost $$$. You might be able to get away with tweaking your source (PC) resolution though. Good luck!

[ST Dragon]

I will upgrade Windows 7 Ultimate to 64bit at the same time when I buy the new card, so do you think I should get a 2GB Video card instead?

So after searching through various cards, I'm considering of getting one of the following 2:

1. Gainward GTX 560 Ti 1 GB 256bit
GPU Clockspeed: 822 Mhz
Memory Clock: 2004 Mhz
Shader Clock = 1645MHz
Cuda Cores = 384
Texture Fill Rate (billion/sec) 52.5
Memory Bandwidth: 128.3 GB/s
http://www.getitnow.gr/prod/anabathmisi ... 1030258pp/
http://www.gainward.com/main/vgapro.php?id=455&lang=en
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop ... ifications

2. EVGA GeForce GTX 460 FPB, 1024MB GDDR5 192bit
Free Performance Boost 823MHz Core Clock
Memory Clock = 2004 MHz (4008 MHz)
Shader Clock = 1646 MHz
Cuda Cores = 336
http://www.plaisio.gr/Computers/Hardwar ... GB-FPB.htm

Which I see is basically an overclocked version of the GTX 460 v2 1GB GDDR5
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop ... ifications

(I'm closer to the Gainward 560ti 1GB as the price seems to be good compared to the card's specs & performance)

So what is your opinion?

[Ed Oscuro]

Windows 8 is said to gain a little performance - i.e. for gaming - over Windows 7. Of course you'd have to put up with the new UI then, but it's something to think about.

[shmuppyLove]

(I'm closer to the Gainward 560ti 1GB as the price seems to be good compared to the card's specs & performance)

So what is your opinion?

Yeah the mid-range 500 series cards are a steal right now, since the newer 600 series ones are out.

Every day I check the price on the EVGA GTX 550 Ti Superclocked. Today I see it's dropped another $10, and the $20 MIR is still available until the end of September