Fair competitive practice and shoot'em ups

[ebarrett]

WHAT ARE YOU DOING VANBRUCE

[Keade]

Nice bump

I have not read the entire thread (too long and tedious) but here are my two cents:
I. I think it would be really nice to have an optional INP / video column / replay column in the hi-scores treads. As long as it is optional, it should make everyone happy.
II. Probably mentionned before, but replays / video are not solely proof:
1. most of them can be used as great game guides. Yes, there already exist videos, but sometimes they are expensive/hard to find or are just plain garbage video quality, especially for less popular games such as Dimahoo.
More ressources to learn = better information = players have an easier time getting better at the game = good
2. (similar to 1.) Provided you use an emulator, input recordings (aka INP) take almost no additionnal time to be made. They allow for lightweigth recordings with perfect quality, resumability and easier experiments (through savestates), which can be convenient. INP repositories such as MARP need more shmups scores

[O. Van Bruce]

WHAT ARE YOU DOING VANBRUCE

This thread should be included in the "Threads of Excellence" sticky. Everyone must read it

[PROMETHEUS]

Nice bump :mrgreen:

I have not read the entire thread (too long and tedious) but here are my two cents:
I. I think it would be really nice to have an optional INP / video column / replay column in the hi-scores treads. As long as it is optional, it should make everyone happy.
II. Probably mentionned before, but replays / video are not solely proof:
1. most of them can be used as great game guides. Yes, there already exist videos, but sometimes they are expensive/hard to find or are just plain garbage video quality, especially for less popular games such as Dimahoo.
More ressources to learn = better information = players have an easier time getting better at the game = good
2. (similar to 1.) Provided you use an emulator, input recordings (aka INP) take almost no additionnal time to be made. They allow for lightweigth recordings with perfect quality, resumability and easier experiments (through savestates), which can be convenient. INP repositories such as MARP need more shmups scores :idea:

Completely and totally agree with this. I'm happy to see it said by someone else as well, so thank you Keade :)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Anyone have the God Mode run and the Mushi Arrange run mirrored somewhere since VixyNyan's decision to delete all posts, erase all video evidence and act like nothing ever happened without any kind of an explanation or apology? I remember they were hilariously bullshit.

[NTSC-J]

I sure hope so, but I fear they may be lost to the ages. If they get recovered somehow, it might be worth contacting the National Film Registry to give them a proper home.

The first half of this thread is quite possibly the greatest moment in shmups forum history.

[BIL]

Fuck me, I'd forgotten about this shitshow. It's like a falsificaretastic murder mystery.

Test of time has been stood. Best Of material for sure!

[Icarus]

Can't believe I just spent an hour at work reading through this thread.
I want that hour of my life back.

[Bananamatic]

some bosses are easier to pause abuse than others

[Squire Grooktook]

If I make a shmup with a pause button, you'll have to hold it down for a few frames/seconds before the screen pauses. Like Skullgirls.

[Ikazu-san]

If I make a shmup with a pause button, you'll have to hold it down for a few frames/seconds before the screen pauses. Like Skullgirls.

Or just disable it for a while after unpausing like CriCro did.

[Elixir]

Full disclosure: when this thread came to be, I watched the replay and wanted to see how it was done. People in IRC were talking about how someone could simply pause themselves through an entire run, but I didn't think that would be consistent enough to execute this replay considering there was barely any presence of stage routing to be seen. After booting a bunch of Asada's releases and testing autofire on Start, I happened to notice that it's possible in practically every 360 release, and thanks to third party controllers, possible to play with pausing at different autofire rates. I made this brief video and shared it to a few select people at that time: IRC, Bananamatic and NTSC-J were some of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j1IVH9olBU

At that time I didn't want a ton of people seeing this because I thought we'd wind up with people imitating, but I guess the cat's out of the bag now. Yes, behind the scenes I was the one who managed to debunk this whole thing. Even so, you'd have to be a fucking moron to think that this run was legit in the first place.

I happen to still have the replay downloaded from XBL back then, and since I've already gotten a request I'll probably upload it sometime. I liked the inhuman dodging of stage 3. I'm not sure if it's still available on the XBL leaderboards any more but it's still on my HDD for sure.

[trap15]

Some legendary threads never die.

[Icarus]

I just had this idea for a game where pressing Start stealthily increases rank a silly amount, kind of like pressing B in Pink Sweets does.
Then we'll see just how exploitable rapid-Start buffering really is.

[cave hermit]

"Bullet curtain of lies": a lifetime original movie, tonight at 9.

[CloudyMusic]

Anyone have the God Mode run and the Mushi Arrange run mirrored somewhere since VixyNyan's decision to delete all posts, erase all video evidence and act like nothing ever happened without any kind of an explanation or apology? I remember they were hilariously bullshit.

Her Spiritual Larsa run should still be up on the leaderboards, but I don't think it's visible unless you filter down by mode and character for some reason. I have it downloaded to on my 360 too.

My favorite part is probably just before the first midboss.

[ryu]

Some legendary threads never die.

And I'm glad for it. Just stumbled upon this thread and had a blast. Just at the right time, too, it appears. Elixir's a hero for still having the replay on hand.

[Blinge]

Haha so this was the thread! I like seeing shmupsfarm history from before my time.
The forum ever <3

since I've already gotten a request I'll probably upload it sometime.

Please do, i'm super curious now.

[BIL]

I happened to notice that it's possible in practically every 360 release, and thanks to third party controllers, possible to play with pausing at different autofire rates. I made this brief video and shared it to a few select people at that time: IRC, Bananamatic and NTSC-J were some of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j1IVH9olBU

YEAHHH I CALLED IT (that's how we took down DORAKYURA in CASTLEVANIA back in the day )

Great work! As always, honour is the only bastion against those FALSIFICARE SCRUBS (・｀ω´・)

[ProjectAKo]

You're either trolling or all the blood is rushing to your dick from the idea of a girl playing shmups and your brain is losing out on vital oxygen.

Jesus christ best post in the thread.

[Skykid]

Jeezis, this post:

Spoiler

That "small mistake" might probably be because of some nervous emotion from the player, which I will get into in my message below.

Hm I've been thinking, didn't the private message mention the Start button being used?
If that's the case, then I might know what happened.

Ports of (pretty much any) Arcade games landing on home consoles has the tendency of allowing you to pause the game at any given time. In most cases, you are allowed to see parts of the screen while it's covered with the usual pause menu selections like Resume, Config and all those fun things. Now, depending on the game, different pause menus has a small (or very tiny) delays as to when you can resume the game after you paused the game. For example, in MushiFutari, by pressing Start and then pressing A right after that in a repeated session can lead to a frame-by-frame movement, which can lead to an advantage for the player by avoiding enemy offensive in that fashion.

In that sense, the replay has a semi-legit (but sadly also a semi-TAS) structure to it, in which someone mentioned that it almost looks like it was played by two different players, hence the very obscene dodging patterns but still decent game play in "some" areas. From what I understand, from reading that private message, is that only a standard controller manufactured by Microsoft was used for the run, but unfortunately, the Start button was used for "some" aspects of the run (not necessarily all of them, like bosses for example, if not counting that strange dodge in Stage 3 boss of course, among others).

I do believe that there has been situations in the run where enemy bullets were filled on the screen, and it was too overflowing for her little mind to handle, that she probably couldn't have picked another route to avoid the bullets, although it appears she "really wanted" to take the easier paths but couldn't find any at those precise moments. It doesn't appear that she was being ignorant, it just didn't seem like she could handle some situations, so instead some (in our own point of view) irrational bullet-dodging paths or movements were taken, which I believe wasn't intentional, but more of a way to find another route to reach the True Last Boss without much unnecessary deaths. When looking at the shaky situations, it looks like she was at a nervous state, not knowing how to fly past bullets in a easier way.

Now, I've skimmed through this individual's records of both youtube videos and live-streaming footage of many games from many different genres in the past, and from what I seen on the screen resolution and display on each of them, they were all played on a real home console (or a PSP with a video-recording plugin), and I've also seen traces of Game Boy Players for the Gamecube being used, bordered around the game screens as well). From this analysis, the MushiFutari replay was definitely a very strange one, but judging by the other video clips of other games, this gamer still has credibility of being a somewhat skilled player, but not for MushiFutari specifically (at least for the moment), BUT.... with more practice, there is still room to do much better in reality than what the "current" replay displays.

What I believe is that, VN shouldn't have uploaded that "specific" replay to an online video-hosting service in the first place, it would put a scar on her record as a gamer. And it wouldn't have been a good idea to submit a high score either, being that the results ends up with a lot of questions and rage from the local community visitors. What would have been best is to just stick it as a part of the (already shoddy) Xbox Live service, hosted on a server for observance by other people who owns the game disc, and then move on with life, while they should come back later to the game and improve themselves to show better (and respectful) results in the future.

I do congratulate this person for completing the objectives imprinted into the game disc published and developed by Cave, and being unlocked while still connected online to the Xbox service (as can be seen by the time stamps on their account) and sticking to the rules allowed to be utilized in the port (you know, since it's not played on a PCB and all). But the method chosen for this last achievement (which anyone can do with any controller by the way) "might" have not been good to display in a public fashion, only for private use. Understandably, there is a huge amount of games in the backlog of that girl's Xbox account and so much to catch up with, and that's most likely why they wanted to speed up the process a bit by using the allowed accessories or controllers to make this huge feat happen in the first place, by still sticking to the rules and restrictions stuck into the console port of the game.

Although admirable, this would also help the gamer understand things they are allowed to do, and things they are not allowed to do in a future run being submitted publicly. The private message mentioned that she "will" come back to the game again, playing as Reco in God Mode next time, and I will stick to those words, hoping she can show that she at least beat the mode, even if lives are lost, through an actual in-moment play session (with character selection and name entry screens included), but preferably she should try to find a PCB board somewhere in the world and practice on that. With the Xbox Live service and for the fact that this is a game port, sooner or later, a method will be available (or written in a online guide somewhere) for the player to utilize (without resorting to cheat devices or hack tools of course, but still using some kind of given button by the developer for the gamer to use to the fullest).

VN, if you are reading this, you should know that, no one is hating you or mean and ill-will towards you, you still have friends that care for you. We are only concerned about the particular replay that you submitted for display in a public environment. From all the comments and other message boards that has been read with your screen name attached to them (and also image-submission sites like DeviantArt), you appear as a very friendly person that doesn't mean any harm to anyone or any community. As one can see on other online communities, this person has been keeping steady contact with many other gamers through online connections and they understand her level of gaming skills, specially when playing co-operatively on many XBLA games. As can be seen in game session feedbacks on TrueAchievements, many has shown respect to VN and her leadership, and wants to help even more.

What I would suggest is that you, VN, should "at least" confirm (or give a hint to) this claim of you using a start button during game play using a regular controller, we don't want to scare you, just a simple yes would be enough, and no one will harm you or attack you for it. From that point on, we sincerely hope that you improve your runs on MushiFutari, and show that you can do so much more, and I really think you can do that.

And you should remove the video from youtube too.

signed,
a friend

signed,
a friend

Puke.

It's like he got to talk to a girl or something. Thankfully that was the one and only forum contribution.

Cstar nailed it pretty funny tho:

snip

word count: 1,270

lol count: ∞

[captpain]

- Using MAME = not really playing the game, it's all an illusion

- Pausing during runs = A-OK, take an hour break if you want, lots of tournament golfers walk home and take a nap between holes

- Save state practice is illegal and makes you fake good at the game

[Giest118]

I dunno why there was even a debate. Clearly the only acceptable runs are on arcade machines in actual arcades. Even having a PCB for personal use will only ever produce unacceptable runs.

Actually, all runs of all shmups are invalid unless you're Japanese.

Actually, no, not even if you're Japanese. There is no competitive shmup scene because all credits are invalid. Shmups don't exist. By playing them you are negating cause and effect, and are going straight to Hell.

[Shepardus]

Actually, all runs of all shmups are invalid unless you're Japanese

You don't have to be Japanese, you just have to be in Japan. It says so clearly on most shmups, for example in Garegga: "Nippon version use in Nippon only"

Also, since nobody's posted the link yet, Elixir posted the replay on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVb5uVDe1EQ

[Giest118]

What the fuck is this shit? I was expecting thirty minutes of her hitbox constantly overlapping with the sprites of at least ten bullets and dodging so tight you could stick your dick in it and risk severed-dick syndrome.

She should've cheated more. I am very disappointed.

[Blinge]

That ganelon's wall o'text in which he admits to using pause abuse in many of his 1cc's, of which there are apparently over 100.
Remove from scoreboards.
Remove from forum.

Also Skykid I want you to know I'm watching the suspect replay while listening to Shenmue soundtrack.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

That ganelon's wall o'text in which he admits to using pause abuse in many of his 1cc's, of which there are apparently over 100.
Remove from scoreboards.
Remove from forum.

I don't know how that mindset develops where you think it's a legitimate clear when you constantly press the pause button to slow down the action. It was like one of those dumb tricks you did as a kid on the NES when you sucked and needed an advantage, but you knew as an adult it was totally not how the game was intended to be played. What next, claiming that savestating your way to a victory counts as a 1CC?

[brokenhalo]

I <3, hugs, and snuggles this thread so much.

Thanks for the upload elixir. Less than a minute in, and I'm already lolling.

Can a mod restore all her posts, for great justice? Not as much fun reading through with all the holes.

[Ikazu-san]

This replay almost looks like what would happen if you let Glow Squid play this game. It either stands still for half a second or teleports all around the screen.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

We need to make a highlight reel of the best bits of nonsense in this vid. I forgot about the dodge during the stage 2 boss at 7:07, all unfocused too, lol.

Stage 3 boss is the most gloriously obvious example of this run being garbage, and it's a screwup that was against its easiest, most predictable attack that's all about misdirecting the aimed spreads.