New Daioh set

[trap15]

Today I noticed that there was a new Daioh set in MAME recently, so I decided to pop it open and see what the changes were.

From what I can see in the code:

• Fixes the crashing bug in the US version caused by pressing Shot1 and Shot2 in weird orders and timings.
• 1UP, and 2UPs no longer spawn "randomly". (Only the fixed extend items exist, and the 1UPs from score)
• After picking up a max powerup, a 1UP or a 2UP, the old set would set the "item timer" to a random value. The new set always sets it to 0x7F.
• The powerups spawned from picking up an additional max powerup are no longer random, but feeds from the original "spawn item" function (thus, it advances the "item timer")

So it seems scores from this new set are not valid on old scoreboards.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

That's a fascinating find there regarding this new version eprom dump of USA region Daioh, trap15.

I do have a USA region Daioh PCB but am not sure which version it is. Is there a proper way to tell which version us USA region Daioh board owners have?

It's cool to play the original JPN region with 2-button scheme via a 2-pin header if so desired on a USA region Daioh PCB setup.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[IseeThings]

Ideally a couple of you guys would get tooled up to be able to read out the roms on such things. 99% of the time you won't notice the differences unless you actively look for them because they'll be fixes for rare bugs, like the things trap15 points out here.

As I've said before, we know for a fact there are other versions of games like Turbo Force out there and no doubt countless others, but Mamedev / people wanting to buy boards for MAME can't buy every one that shows up on the off chance that board will be something slightly different.

The new Daioh set, like most good things, came from an external contributor

So I do urge anybody who has the tools, and a collection of PCBs to at least check the ROMs on them, never know what you might have in storage...

[Ghegs]

So I do urge anybody who has the tools, and a collection of PCBs to at least check the ROMs on them, never know what you might have in storage...

I happened to acquire a version of Konami's Mystic Warriors that doesn't seem to be in MAME - my board completely lacks this short mini-boss fight against the buzzsaw-van, which makes it a bit less fun version in my opinion. Still, I guess for completeness' sake it should be archived.

[IseeThings]

So I do urge anybody who has the tools, and a collection of PCBs to at least check the ROMs on them, never know what you might have in storage...

I happened to acquire a version of Konami's Mystic Warriors that doesn't seem to be in MAME - my board completely lacks this short mini-boss fight against the buzzsaw-van, which makes it a bit less fun version in my opinion. Still, I guess for completeness' sake it should be archived.

The Mystic Warriors version should be displayed in the bottom right corner of the screen after the ROM check completes, although there have been cases where we've seen Konami forget to change it The versions we have identify as EAA, UAA, JAA, and AAA (which alone is quite rare, as *AA is typically the first version of a game)

If yours identifies itself as something different it needs dumping, yes.. if it doesn't, but you're absolutely sure none of the sets in MAME behave like it, then you might want to get it check the roms anyway.

[shmuppyLove]

Mystic Warriors

First you destroy a van with a giant saw blade on the front, which breaks off and saws the van in half, then a tanker truck drives into a fucking gas station and fight a boss that looks like a Mack truck.

Then you grab onto a helicopter and hit the ski slopes to kick some more ass.

FUCKING EPIC

[trap15]

That's a fascinating find there regarding this new version eprom dump of USA region Daioh, trap15.

I do have a USA region Daioh PCB but am not sure which version it is. Is there a proper way to tell which version us USA region Daioh board owners have?

It's cool to play the original JPN region with 2-button scheme via a 2-pin header if so desired on a USA region Daioh PCB setup.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

The boards are the same between US and Japan regions, it's just the jumper that determines the region.

Anyways, the version can be figured out either by trying to get a 1UP like in sikraiken's superplay (if it doesn't appear, it's probably the new version), or by trying to make the game freeze (Hold Shot1, Hold Shot2, Release Shot1, Press Shot1. Requires certain power levels (I can't recall which), but you should be able to do it after a little bit of messing around).

[Dave_K.]

So I do urge anybody who has the tools, and a collection of PCBs to at least check the ROMs on them, never know what you might have in storage...

I'm pretty sure I have an undumped revision of Volfied, as the title screen says 1992, and the demo sequence doesn't end abruptly like the set in mame. Now that I have a rom burner I'll be dumping this and going through my other boards over time.

How do I submit these to Mame?

[IseeThings]

If it says 1992 chances are the rom has been hacked at least, dates don't typically get updated for revisions, and a revision of a regular game but 3 years later is highly unlikely anyway.

That said, it might still be based off an undumped revision, and would be interesting to look at. The standard MAME submission procedure applies, shove what you have on something like sendspace, then use the submission form at http://mamedev.org/contact.html to explain what you've done / have. Details of any labels stuck on the chips is always appreciated.

alternatively people can PM me with the details if they'd like me to give something a quick look, I can usually get on things quite quickly, or if something looks bad let you know.

[Despatche]

iseethings, i am absolutely certain that the current out zone set 1 is a hack, can you tell me anything about that one

[IseeThings]

pretty sure it's just Toaplan being spammy with revisions, there are a good number of legitimate fixes in that set, so I doubt it's a hack, it's also the set which has been found most often.

[Despatche]

when the original set was submitted it was claimed that set was found everywhere

the new set 1 is entirely different and behaves nothing like it should, and there was absolutely no info when it was added and parented

what are these "fixes" in this new set 1, because i get the feeling you're talking about the old set 1

[IseeThings]

when the original set was submitted it was claimed that set was found everywhere

the new set 1 is entirely different and behaves nothing like it should, and there was absolutely no info when it was added and parented

what are these "fixes" in this new set 1, because i get the feeling you're talking about the old set 1

Stephh did a code analysis of it at one point, I can't remember the details.

Yes, the game has been reworked, but it's also a confirmed set on original boards, with original labels.

outzone (the parent) has only been found on original boards
outzonea is the most common version found on bootleg boards, but appears to be a legitimate code revision (code contains a few obvious bugs tho, eg a bad jump when leaving test mode so it's probably quite an early set)
outzoneb is some unfinished version, probably an early run, been seen on bootlegs and a low serial # original board
outzonec has only been seen on a bootleg board, but appears to be a legitimate code revision
outzoned has also only been found on original boards..

All versions are different builds of the game, code is offset, they've been all been created from the original sources IMHO. Cheap hacks don't tend to involve extensive code relocation, none of the sets are cheap hacks of each other.

Clearly changes have been made to the game, and it's true the attract demos in the parent set haven't been updated to match the changes, but IMHO the changes were made by Toaplan.

Some things aren't always easy to explain, especially 'after the fact' eg. the strange XX releases of Pink Sweets, which really seem to be later revisions, but some people consider 'broken'

[Ed Oscuro]

Where is all this work being recorded? The MAME label structure unfortunately gives the impression of being the word of God, rather than best current knowledge.

[IseeThings]

some of it gets recorded in the source, but not every little note can be put there.

the setnames / descriptions reflect the best knowledge, call it 'word of god' if you want, people are welcome to challenge any of them as long as they submit appropriate code analysis to support what they're saying

for controversial cases, or ones where things are just plain unclear a note explaining the reasoning is likely to be added.

if trap15 or somebody wants to do an even more indepth pull-apart of the sets based on the gameplay as well as bugfixes and resolve this particular controversial issue for good then he's more than welcome.

Toaplan were notoriously sloppy tho, there are a number of their games where the ram/rom check code they have is completely broken (testing the wrong areas altogether), and instead of fixing it they just patched it out! Wouldn't surprise me at all if they were thinking of doing a rebalanced / retuned version of the game, then one of their distributors asked for some new copies, and ended up with some half-finished update I get the impression from some of their other stuff that builds were done on demand for the licensees and such.

[IseeThings]

fwiw I'll probably request that one of the other confirmed sets be made the parent anyway tho.. the parent does seem to be rather bastardized, be it intentional or not, it's not really the type of thing you want as a parent set. (for similar reasons I've many times said MAME should have Japan sets as the parents and default to Japanese where applicable...)

[Ed Oscuro]

(for similar reasons I've many times said MAME should have Japan sets as the parents and default to Japanese where applicable...)

Good to know you're pushing that! Hope they listen to you, thanks!

[chempop]

I enjoyed playing this alot on my crappy mame setup during last years STGT. Finally got the PCB up and running now
Haven't seen a 2UP yet...

So Trap15, you working on your "arrange" label yet? Excited to hear about what you have in mind.

[trap15]

I worked on it a bit after I saw this new set; it's in need of some testers. If you like Bakraid and Daioh, hit me up.