Got any spare cash for a little site called Penny Arcade?

[Mischief Maker]

Kickstarter is officially ruined. It's now a portal for already rich and successful personalities who could easily secure a loan for their latest pet project to get the startup capital without having to pay any of it back. What could be worse? How about a couple rich pricks getting free money to provide nothing new?

The Penny Arcade Kickstarter

Instead of publishing an aggressively mediocre webcomic about videogames with banner ads, give them your money and they'll stop having to deal with advertisers and pass the savings on to you! I mean costs.

How much would you pay for the privilege of fetching donuts for the Penny Arcade creators? $10,000? $9,000? $8,000? Well guess what? Act now and pledge $7500 and you can be their intern for a day! (You pay travel costs)

They're already nearly at $200K and Kicktraq is projecting them to make $2.5 million. Aren't we supposed to be in a recession? Is this what it was like in the final months before Rome fell?

[Drachenherz]

Penny what...?

[louisg]

Oh good, if I pay them enough, will they go back to school to learn how to write a punchline?

Kickstarter is officially ruined. It's now a portal for already rich and successful personalities who could easily secure a loan for their latest pet project to get the startup capital without having to pay any of it back. What could be worse? How about a couple rich pricks getting free money to provide nothing new?

Yep. Seems kind of predictable. Not that there aren't things I'd like from people who are already successful, but it's too bad that so often it's used by people who don't really *need* a kickstarter.

[BIL]

Maybe he buy new hair, jajajaja.

[rancor]

"Family Circus has never, ever been funny, insightful, or anything else. It exists solely for elderly stroke victims."

I feel the same way about PA.

[Friendly]

Agreed, this sucks. They shouldn't even allow this on kickstarter, because it's not a project that needs kickstarting.
Maybe Penny Arcade is trying to be funny (and fails, like with their comic)?

[njiska]

While the merits of this being on Kickstarter specifically are debatable, I'm actually quite a fan of the idea of crowdfunding a site, rather than relying on ad revenue. There's no question that on most sites ads are annoying, intrusive and generally ruin what would otherwise be a good experience. Yet they remain a necessary evil because good bandwidth isn't cheap, site design costs money and the only other alternative up till this point as been a pay wall; which we can all agree is a bad idea. There's also the issue of ad-blocking which in turn costs sites necessary revenue.

Crowdfunding strikes a nice balance by allowing people who generally appreciate your work to contribute financially to you, while at the same time allowing you to not bastardize or clutter their experience with ads. If you don't like the product, then you don't have to contribute, but you're not missing out on anything if you don't either. Penny-arcade isn't holding the site hostage or anything sinister like that, they're just looking to see if their fans support them. This is no different than the annual Wikipedia financial drive, except that there are some rewards (mostly PA trying to be comical) and you don't have to have Jimmy Wales staring at you.

I for one am curious to see how this turns out.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Adblock?

[Drum]

I don't have a problem with anyone using kickstarter. If nothing else it's a good general barometer of whether something of uncertain value actually generates interest from people.
The 'rewards' there are just moronic though. Say what you like about Penny Arcade, I thought they were smarter and better than that.

[Skykid]

Adblock?

Lololol!

Re this, I have mixed feelings. On one hand I agree with MM that Kickstarter is a platform for abusing people with low mental capacity or those who have stronger emotional connections to strangers than they do their bank account; however, I hate advertising.

Ads are a necessary evil in the web today, and I'm not a fan. For any website to have to give up their publishing space to accommodate intrusive advertising just to stay afloat is a sad thing. I like the idea of donations: "it's free to view, but if you enjoy it then send us a couple of bucks!" and I suppose Kickstarter is the same thing on a grander scale.

The only thing is, Penny Arcade isn't kickstarting, they did that several years back. I'd rather see the sale pitch go out for a brand new venture that needs capital to survive without the slow burn revenue of advertising. That would make a lot more sense.

[Op Intensify]

You could also give your money to a schizophrenic woman who hears voices from the sun (and has already scammed people on Deviantart).

[gabe]

Honestly, I don't care what's on Kickstarter... And I'm not sure why anyone else does either. Participation is 100% voluntary.

If you don't like a project, don't back it, but don't be surprised when the general public collectively decides to fund utter garbage... It's what the general public does best. Just look at the success of Wal Mart.

[Mortificator]

There was a time when I though people liked money, but Kickstarter's shown me that they don't like it nearly as much as they like giving it away for stupid crap.

Penny Arcade, they've put out some pretty funny strips. For the last few years, though, the writing's just been embarrassing.

[Op Intensify]

Honestly, I don't care what's on Kickstarter... And I'm not sure why anyone else does either. Participation is 100% voluntary.

The problem is that they're abusing the system. Kickstarter's intended for people who actually need the money and wouldn't be able to fund their projects by themselves. They should have never been approved. Why not just use a Paypal donation button? There's no illusion of anything other than "give us your money OLOLOL" with that, and it's not overshadowing legitimate indie projects that need funding.

The Penny Arcade guys could easily afford a loan, and they're not using the money to provide any new content, product or service. Do people just not know about Adblock Plus or something? There's your zero ads for free, forever.

[BryanM]

[njiska]

The Penny Arcade guys could easily afford a loan, and they're not using the money to provide any new content, product or service. Do people just not know about Adblock Plus or something? There's your zero ads for free, forever.

Do you not understand what their Kickstarter is about? Saying take out a loan is just foolish and completely misses the point. They are not talking about making more money than they do now; they're talking about getting completely rid of a source of revenue, in favour of a different source of revenue. They don't need to provide any additional content to justify it because the money will be going to finance the content they already produce. Content that is currently paid for with ad revenues that they would no longer be receiving.

Yes, you can use ad block to get rid of ads, but doing so means they're also not getting any ad revenue. This is a compromise that offers fans a chance to support the site and also gets rid of ads for everyone.

[Op Intensify]

They are not talking about making more money than they do now; they're talking about getting completely rid of a source of revenue, in favour of a different source of revenue.

But that's not what Kickstarter is for.

It's for KICKSTARTING new independent projects off the ground that wouldn't be possible with just the creators' own money. Not for replacing one source of revenue for your existing content with another.

[Specineff]

I can't wait to see the fallout from this snafu.

[Jeneki]

Kickstarter project guidelines are here, for those curious. The prohibited items list is a bit humorous, actually.

[njiska]

They are not talking about making more money than they do now; they're talking about getting completely rid of a source of revenue, in favour of a different source of revenue.

But that's not what Kickstarter is for.

It's for KICKSTARTING new independent projects off the ground that wouldn't be possible with just the creators' own money. Not for replacing one source of revenue for your existing content with another.

I am well aware of what the intended purpose of Kickstarter is. I'm also well aware that this argument alone does not make what PA is trying to do wrong. They are testing the waters of a new revenue model and because Kickstarter doesn't make any money change hands without a project being fully funded, it's a great way to see if the interest is there before they decide to ditch their advertising contracts.

Looking at the guidelines, the PA project fits, but may run afoul of the "Project" definition. That's for Kickstarter to decide, not anyone else.

[Turrican]

Kickstarter is officially ruined.

please all of you, pledge the Argoman Fantastic Superman project at Kickstarter - i want that bluray!

[moh]

But that's not what Kickstarter is for.

hm, I gotta agree with this. If they were looking to test the waters (like njiska said) then why couldn't they do that from their own website like wikipedia does? (also mentioned previously). I don't think kickstarter is the place to be doing this..

[Op Intensify]

The only reason they went with this instead of a Paypal donation button with a goal meter, is that Kickstarter is a trendy buzzword and really high-profile in the gaming scene these days. And it reeks less of "give us your money." With all those joke rewards (we'll retweet you! be our intern!), it's obvious they'd really rather not have to give out anything at all.

I'm also well aware that this argument alone does not make what PA is trying to do wrong.

It does if they're exploiting a system for an unintended purpose.

That's for Kickstarter to decide, not anyone else.

If they don't have the guts to call out influential people like Gabe and Tycho out on their bullshit, it's our job. Simple as that. I wouldn't be surprised if they only approved it because they're PA fans.

[gabe]

Yep. Paypal is boring, old news etc. Kickstarter is hip and trendy... Both Penny Arcade and Kickstarter stand to profit from this partnership. Why would either of them say no?

Kickstarter's prime directive is to make money... Not make the world a better place. Don't let them fool you into thinking otherwise.

I revert to my previous statement. The best defense against this sort of thing is to vote with your dollar, and not back these types of ventures.

[Lordstar]

not too far off the mark the first time really.

[DragonInstall]

Eh who cares? If people want to pay for that, then let them be. If they're donating money to that cause, they're probably do well enough in the recession. Hell wasting your time on that site probably means your not having any real money troubles.

[Ex-Cyber]

Yeah, I don't see how this meets the guidelines. Whether or not they "need" the money to "kickstart" anything, Kickstarter is explicitly and exclusively for funding projects, i.e. ventures with something resembling well-defined goals, deliverables, and deadlines. In short, a project is eventually completed. Things like charity drives and general fundraisers are expressly forbidden.

[Op Intensify]

If people want to pay for that, then let them be.

Money is a finite resource.

[Ed Oscuro]

If people want to pay for that, then let them be.

Money is a finite resource.

It is not.

Bonus video: Some Olympians are broke (CNN video)

[drauch]

I'm going to start a kickstarter to ban shitty web-comics (all of them).