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 Post subject: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:58 pm 


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This thread is for strategy discussion of DonPachi during this month's STG of the month. Share strategies, ask for help, post replays, and all that good stuff in this thread!
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:30 pm 


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bfiX8plqAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwxxXKW-W00

Chaining paths for 1-1 & 1-2. Looks like Type C is best for score.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:41 pm 


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Chaining the boss parts never even crossed my mind. Good find!
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:33 am 


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RNGmaster wrote:
Looks like Type C is best for score.
It's probably good at medium levels, but I remember reading that it runs into difficulties somewhere along the line, which would explain why its record is much lower than that of the other two.

I've spent some time puzzling over how best to score in this game. Originally I'd read about it and thought "derp, just play for survival and try to get those huge no-bomb bonuses", but if you don't die the rank goes haywire from about stage 4 on. The game really does make you have to earn them, aside from maybe on 2-1. Instead, I think it might actually be better (initially, at least) to play "for chain" and use tactical bombs/suicides to keep the rank down. AFAIK enemy placement is identical for both loops, so if 40 million comes from chaining in total, it should be possible to make close to 20 million from it in the first loop alone.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:45 pm 


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Wow if you wait too long to destory the first boss, he whips out a really fast sniper laser and murders you in the face.

:shock:
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:40 pm 


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shmuppyLove wrote:
Wow if you wait too long to destory the first boss, he whips out a really fast sniper laser and murders you in the face.

:shock:

Yeah, you can react in time and bomb it, also listen for the "Watch it!" which comes just as the pattern starts. I get it quite a lot in 2-1 if I don't bomb beforehand.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:48 pm 


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I've gotten killed by that sniper laser twice because I was stalling to get the last bee before killing the boss and I misjudged his health. Hnnggg.

Also stage 4 is a bitch. Luckily Type C obliterates most of the popcorn. :V
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:03 pm 


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RNGmaster wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bfiX8plqAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwxxXKW-W00

Chaining paths for 1-1 & 1-2. Looks like Type C is best for score.


Wow, never looked into Donpachi chaining before. It's pretty horrible. So it's not about stage chaining, more like chaining as much as possible after each interval?
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:38 pm 


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Yup. Make a lot of enemies appear so you can make 'em disappear. I wouldn't call that horrible (though some chains require crazy timing) but to each their own.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:41 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
It's pretty horrible. So it's not about stage chaining, more like chaining as much as possible after each interval?


Eh, seems more fun to me so far than stage long chaining. You can make your own strategies pretty easily and single mistakes will only mess up that single chain.

You can do decently just figuring stuff on your own with the basic thought of getting as many enemies on screen as possible and starting the chains with high point enemies.

BTW, looking at previous threads on the game.. seems C is easy to chain with but it's too slow to perform well in the loop (the NMNB bonuses in the loop are huge, millions)

I love the sound effects some guy put into those vids.. every time a big chain ends, DON-PACH


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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:56 pm 



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Necromancy time:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58&p=778315&hilit=Donpachi#p778315

EDIT:

I'd like to upload the list with every bit of good information that comes out of this thread. For instance, any good soul that can read Japanese, and check what RNG's links say? Or, RNG, do you think you can find more stage guides? I can "interpret" the videos and explain the chains, But I guess that we would benefit from knowing what the player himself says, in the logbox.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:23 am 


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DoubleThink wrote:
I've spent some time puzzling over how best to score in this game. Originally I'd read about it and thought "derp, just play for survival and try to get those huge no-bomb bonuses", but if you don't die the rank goes haywire from about stage 4 on. The game really does make you have to earn them, aside from maybe on 2-1. Instead, I think it might actually be better (initially, at least) to play "for chain" and use tactical bombs/suicides to keep the rank down.


How do you manage rank-suiciding with only one extend?
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:06 am 


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Moniker wrote:
How do you manage rank-suiciding with only one extend?

There are two, maybe 3 extends: The score extend, the stage 4 extend, and maybe the loop 2 stage 4 extend (dunno if it's around there).
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:31 am 


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There isn't an extend on 2-4, I would say 1 suicide is enough.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:50 am 


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DoubleThink wrote:
RNGmaster wrote:
Looks like Type C is best for score.
It's probably good at medium levels, but I remember reading that it runs into difficulties somewhere along the line, which would explain why its record is much lower than that of the other two.

I've spent some time puzzling over how best to score in this game. Originally I'd read about it and thought "derp, just play for survival and try to get those huge no-bomb bonuses", but if you don't die the rank goes haywire from about stage 4 on. The game really does make you have to earn them, aside from maybe on 2-1. Instead, I think it might actually be better (initially, at least) to play "for chain" and use tactical bombs/suicides to keep the rank down. AFAIK enemy placement is identical for both loops, so if 40 million comes from chaining in total, it should be possible to make close to 20 million from it in the first loop alone.


I've been doing this because I'm shit at Donpachi and keep losing a life on level 3 like a plonker :D
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:58 am 


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Smraedis wrote:
shmuppyLove wrote:
Wow if you wait too long to destory the first boss, he whips out a really fast sniper laser and murders you in the face.

:shock:

Yeah, you can react in time and bomb it, also listen for the "Watch it!" which comes just as the pattern starts. I get it quite a lot in 2-1 if I don't bomb beforehand.


Yeah, he has tons more HP in the second loop. Are the other 2nd loop bosses the same (never been past 2-2)?.

Zaarock wrote:
Skykid wrote:
It's pretty horrible. So it's not about stage chaining, more like chaining as much as possible after each interval?


Eh, seems more fun to me so far than stage long chaining. You can make your own strategies pretty easily and single mistakes will only mess up that single chain.

You can do decently just figuring stuff on your own with the basic thought of getting as many enemies on screen as possible and starting the chains with high point enemies.


My thoughts exactly. My strategies for this game are all my own work, I had to play this game recently after a haitus of over two years and I still managed to work out some new ways to improve my scoring a bit. My favourite Cave game by far, I'll rustle up a new score for the thread soon.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:17 am 



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I would say that 2-1 and 2-2 bosses have more HPs, while the last three bosses seem to have the same amount of their 1-X counterparts.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 2:35 pm 


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I can get to stage 4 with like 5.3mil on a good run now, but still getting deaths in stage 3 and 4 frequently because I'm trying out new strategies.. getting all bees in 3 will take a while. Hate the stage 3 boss, it's certainly an intense fight but it takes so damn long to kill it.

I'll probably bomb whenever I feel I'm trapped by the constant stream attack because the side guns with the bees die from one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:11 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
I'd like to upload the list with every bit of good information that comes out of this thread. For instance, any good soul that can read Japanese, and check what RNG's links say? Or, RNG, do you think you can find more stage guides? I can "interpret" the videos and explain the chains, But I guess that we would benefit from knowing what the player himself says, in the logbox.


Um, I checked the YT channel and unfortunately can't find any other stage guides (though the description did say to expect more). The frustrating thing about this game is that nobody in the western world has ever tracked down a replay that gets more than 22m. Probably because SOF-WTN never releases replays. Sorry rando :(

One thing I noticed and this is probably quite obvious, but since chains are based on killing things one's ability to pull off chains on enemies with higher HP is contingent upon being fully powered up. Considering that it takes about 9 powerups to get back to full power after a death, rather than 5 in DDP, dying in the 1st loop at all totally screws you over for score for at least 1 full stage - and also makes survival much harder.

I'm sticking with C - it requires a lot of skill to play 1-5 well with since you have to be plotting the bullet trajectories and your positioning really far in advance. Fun stuff. As long as I mostly pacifist the loop I might be able to make it to a pretty good score with C.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:42 pm 



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RNG: no worries, I guess that we may just keep stalking the channel until videos about the last three stages pop up. Updating the ST will be a bit of a long-term project, in the sense that I will add any future stage guides whenever they will appear.

On chaining and power-ups: yes, deaths in this game can really screw badly a stage's performance, as the power-up system was not designed with a quick, score-oriented recovery route in mind. Ikeda and co. just stuck to the old Toaplan fare, possibly overlooking this fact. It was their first game as main programmers, after all.

On rank-oriented suicide: I always found that an early death (1-1 or 1-2) is quite helpful to tame keep rank constantly low. It feels like the game treats you like a n00b, if you do so.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:24 pm 


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How do you get all 3 bombs in Stage 3? In the American version there's a pair of boats, one early on and one before the actual bomb carrier, that drop bombs when you destroy them. In the Japanese though, it seems there's a trick to getting the bombs, otherwise they don't drop 'em. With the first carrier, it looks like you have to delay killing it until you've destroyed the cranes to its right in order for it to drop the bomb. I'm having trouble getting the bomb from the second one, any help?

Oh, just got it, you have to destroy the boat that appears in front of it I think; I thought the buildings before might have something to do with it, but I was just killing it too soon.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:59 pm 


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BareknuckleRoo wrote:
How do you get all 3 bombs in Stage 3?

Wait for the boats to stop moving before finishing them off.
In the Japanese version you can use a bomb to weaken it, but it doesn't survive a bomb in the US version.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:12 am 


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So, where's the safespot for the final boss first form again? And is it worth it?
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:25 am 


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Is there a definitive word on how much powerups actually influence the damage done by the laser? It does a huge amount for regular shots (increased fire rate and all) but I'm unsure about actual damage rate of the laser.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:41 am 


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RNGmaster wrote:
One thing I noticed and this is probably quite obvious, but since chains are based on killing things one's ability to pull off chains on enemies with higher HP is contingent upon being fully powered up. Considering that it takes about 9 powerups to get back to full power after a death, rather than 5 in DDP, dying in the 1st loop at all totally screws you over for score for at least 1 full stage - and also makes survival much harder.

Randorama wrote:
On chaining and power-ups: yes, deaths in this game can really screw badly a stage's performance, as the power-up system was not designed with a quick, score-oriented recovery route in mind.

this also has the effect of making you feel like crap when playing at anything other than max power, which... can be nice
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:17 pm 


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Giest118 wrote:
Is there a definitive word on how much powerups actually influence the damage done by the laser? It does a huge amount for regular shots (increased fire rate and all) but I'm unsure about actual damage rate of the laser.


If it's anything like DoDonPachi's damage system, the laser doesn't increase that much in damage per frame with each powerup compared to the effect the increased rate of fire has on the power of your standard shots. Easiest way to test would be to fight the stage 2 boss at max power without using bombs or laser aura damage (to exaggerate the differences in time) and then to do it again at the lowest shot power.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:50 am 


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How do you dodge the area 4 bosses shield turret attack without using a safespot? (safespot doesn't happen to be very safe lol)


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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:55 am 


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I start in the upper right corner of the shield as close as I can get to the laser without actually touching it (obviously). As soon as you know the turret is going to pop up (takes a little practice, because if you wait for it to show up and try to react, YOU'RE ALREADY DEAD), I make a smooth movement straight down, then very slowly tap dodge to the left, then up. As you reach the top left corner of the shield, the turret will take a short break during which you reverse the process.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:26 pm 


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Alright, that's holding laser the whole time? If only I had a mame version where savestates worked, heh..


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 Post subject: Re: GD: STG of the Month (May/June 2012) - DonPachi!
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:49 pm 


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Yes, definitely with laser held down.
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