I am asked to remove the video

[Kaiser]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmyiqy5-Jbw

So basically one of the gwangedash members asks me to remove this video. All I can say is, he can kiss my shmup ass, my videos, my property, I ain't gonna remove it.

[MEDIEVAL_MIKU]

Watch out, we got a badass over here.

[Ed Oscuro]

Haha, they got mad because they got caught with their fingers in Cave's business, huh?

It's always nice to randomly have that intersection between "normal person" and "complete jackass" happen to you randomly, huh Kaiser?

Anyway, from a copyright perspective, you could claim fair use here, pretty evidently. If I am right in understanding the intention is to highlight stolen arts, it is an even stronger claim.

[trap15]

The Gwange-Dash guys definitely should have realized that ripping off resources from basically every STG developer ever was going to attract some negative legal attention, and they should be fully prepared to get their shit handed to them without blaming the users for, well, USING THEIR PRODUCT.

[BIL]

Keep the video up Kaiser - for god, england and mjclark! (he'll be doing several thousand RPM in his grave if you back down)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Stuff doesn't disappear from the internet that easily. The same thing happened with Streets of Rage Remake - Sega sent a cease and desist, but the game just kept getting passed around on sites other than the official one. Besides, they should just put a positive PR spin on it and use the attention from the fangame to sell more official releases.

"The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." ~ John Gilmore

[Ruldra]

What's the story behind this? Are they suffering legal action and want to remove evidence from youtube? They don't want people to know about that exploit? I'm confused...

In any case, yelling at the comments section to remove the video is just...well, hilarious.

[dannnnn]

The Gwange-Dash guys definitely should have realized that ripping off resources from basically every STG developer ever was going to attract some negative legal attention, and they should be fully prepared to get their shit handed to them without blaming the users for, well, USING THEIR PRODUCT.

They did realise that though, that's why everybody in this thread was having such a hard time getting the later versions of the game.

Message from the developer:

Gわんげdashは今後開発が行われることも配布されることもありません。
このような事態を避けるために配布に制限をかけていました。
私は多くのバージョンに、デバッガ以外はダウンロードすべきではないという説明を書き添えていましたが、
それを無視する形でリンクまたは仲間内でのコピーが行われていたため、「説明を読んでください」とお願いしました。
それが何故伝わらなかったのか、私には理解できません。
あなた方に作者を尊重する気持ちが少しでも残っているのならば、
Gわんげdashのユーザーがこれ以上増えないようにしてください。お願いします。

From now on there will be no development or distribution of GwangeDash.
It was to avoid a situation like this that I placed restrictions on its distribution.
On many of the versions, I attached an explantion that they were not to be downloaded except for debugging, but as you ignored that and shared links and copies with each other, I asked that you read my explanation.
I don't understand why that didn't get across to you.
If you have any respect for me, the developer, left, please ensure that the number of GwangeDash players does not increase any further.

He obviously doesn't want to get in any more trouble with CAVE. By all means play the game if you still have it, but why not just respect the developer's wishes and take the video down?

[Captain]

I am puzzled by this.

How can the companies blame people for making a game which will make people know about the original games, hence increasing the chance of people buying them?

EDIT:

Take down the vid....for now, or the creator might track you.

[trap15]

So they developed a game that was supposed to never ever be released intentionally? Sounds like a load of ass-covering bollocks.

[ryu]

this is dumb. it's not like your video would indicate that he's still working on the thing

[hzt]

this is dumb. it's not like your video would indicate that he's still working on the thing

I think he is just morally outraged at someone still playing the game despite the creator and CAVE saying "NO", also skimming the 2ch thread it looks like they are still feeling pretty angry/racist about what went down before as half the damn posts are gaijin this gaijin that.

[Skykid]

skimming the 2ch thread it looks like they are still feeling pretty angry/racist about what went down before as half the damn posts are gaijin this gaijin that.

Ha ha, awesome.

I might post a video too. I'll need to create a new channel called Gaijin Gamer.

Srsly though, sounds like the guy is crapping himself over the prospect of doing time for some kind intellectual property theft and wants everyone to forget he made the game. Japan is notoriously not-cool when it comes to anything to do with piracy, so I'm not surprised at the sudden hypocritical change of heart.

[Ruldra]

Srsly though, sounds like the guy is crapping himself over the prospect of doing time for some kind intellectual property theft and wants everyone to forget he made the game.

Eh, too late for that. Yelling at youtube users in an attempt to control the damage only makes him come off as a desperate fool.

[Elixir]

this is dumb. it's not like your video would indicate that he's still working on the thing

I think he is just morally outraged at someone still playing the game despite the creator and CAVE saying "NO", also skimming the 2ch thread it looks like they are still feeling pretty angry/racist about what went down before as half the damn posts are gaijin this gaijin that.

Thread? I want to tell them that their shit game is not worth the light of day.

[BPzeBanshee]

this is dumb. it's not like your video would indicate that he's still working on the thing

I think he is just morally outraged at someone still playing the game despite the creator and CAVE saying "NO", also skimming the 2ch thread it looks like they are still feeling pretty angry/racist about what went down before as half the damn posts are gaijin this gaijin that.

The additional anger from them recently is my fault. I'll explain below.

Let me clarify a few things:

1. There is no stolen graphics. It's clearly stolen *ideas* (no shit guys, it's a fangame) but there are few if any actual sprites ripped directly from the games in question - the content is made from scratch to look like stuff from other games. Looking at the data myself the only direct sprite rip appears to be Black Heart MK-II and some of the bullets.

2. GwangeDash is an offshoot of the G-Wange engine which uses the same graphical/musical content. G-Wange and GwangeDash are NOT THE SAME THING, but the yuzuru.2ch forumers used THE SAME CONTENT.
While GwangeDash was made under a new engine with encrypted external data and the developer for that got paranoid about Cave/foriegners, G-Wange's external data is freely editable, although the engine is considerably inferior - but on the contrary to their initial topic statement they're not happy about anyone actually contributing to it's development (see below).

3. Going on from 2), under the understanding that they were open to contributors I asked about the boss healthbars which are currently offset and crude in appearance compared to GwangeDash. I was first told that there was nothing that can be done, then when they realised it was me by forum name asking, they looked here and found I was working on a Death Label version of the G-Wange content. Needless to say, they were really unhappy about this, posting a whole lot of racist garbage.

4. I asked around, trying to figure out what the fuck they were on about: Observer heard from a third-party that not only had I insulted the developer in the past (probably a reference to the GwangeDash thread) but because the now-banned mjclark liked it they think it was some kind of fuck-the-devs gesture, which is not the case. They seem to have a very misunderstood idea of our motives. I further asked spadgy about this worrying what implications this could have on the forums, considering system11 has been real anal about keeping up appearances lately, and he has yet to properly reply.

GwangeDash is a great game, and while G-Wange is limited by an engine that hasn't had core changes since 2004, it's a shame the people of yuzuru.2ch are being very unfriendly about this. I certainly didn't mean to offend them and neither did Kaiser.

EDIT: It isn't just you Kaiser, http://www.youtube.com/user/507GW the guy's been posting that on all of the GwangeDash videos he can find.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Oh, internet drama.

[Udderdude]

There is no stolen graphics. It's clearly stolen *ideas* (no shit guys, it's a fangame) but there are few if any actual sprites ripped directly from the games in question - the content is made from scratch to look like stuff from other games.

It doesn't need to be a 100% rip of the other game's sprites in order to be considered stolen. For instance, you could consider the ship designs themselves to be copyrighted and not directly recreateable and cloneable.

If someone made a game with one of the XOP boss designs copied down to the last spiky thorn sticking out, I wouldn't know whether to be angry or flattered .. :p

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I do think fangames should do a bit more to ask people who play them to support the original works they're based on like providing website links to where you can purchase the official games or whatnot. True, most fangames are targetted specifically at people who'd already be buying the original works, but links and such would still help for people who stumble upon the fangame without knowing the original source material.

[BPzeBanshee]

There is no stolen graphics. It's clearly stolen *ideas* (no shit guys, it's a fangame) but there are few if any actual sprites ripped directly from the games in question - the content is made from scratch to look like stuff from other games.

It doesn't need to be a 100% rip of the other game's sprites in order to be considered stolen. For instance, you could consider the ship designs themselves to be copyrighted and not directly recreateable and cloneable.

I'm not familiar with Japanese intellectual property laws but from what I've read over here (Australia) it goes only as far as actual file content. It basically boils down to: If code is stolen, lawsuit their ass. If it looks like it does the same thing but uses no code, you can't do squat. America's a bit more ahead in this regard from what I've heard but if the Mark Zuckerberg vs Winkelvoss Brothers case is anything to go by it's not that much different there except Mark paid them to shut their traps for a while.

Clearly this is a Western perspective here. It would be nice to have someone who actually knows clarify what the go is in Japan because this is about the line where things grey out anyway legally and clearly the yuzuru.2ch forumers have erred to the side of paranoia in this regard.

If someone made a game with one of the XOP boss designs copied down to the last spiky thorn sticking out, I wouldn't know whether to be angry or flattered .. :p

I guess having the XOP ship as the stage 3 boss in GMOSSE is a no-go zone then! Oh noez!

[xris]

I'm kinda glad this story is still going, maybe I can get some closure with it. GwangDash is a dope game, I'm bummed I lost it in a pc crash. Any of the developers really do have legal claim, especially Cave for the level layouts. But, even once it leaked it was still semi-private, and the GD guys still freaked. Screw you for being angry about some of us for being honestly excited for your work - which was still technically someone else's.
There are already plenty of vaporware videos out there.

[tinotormed]

WARNING!! DO NOT UPLOAD ANY VIDEOS ABOUT G-wange! REMOVE THIS VIDEO!

I was told the same thing either. My reaction, NEVER!!! BUT, the video will NOW be private and will be only viewed to enthusiastic STG fans (AND I mean Shmup players) only!!!

[Captain]

I aught to make some of those too.

[hzt]

The additional anger from them recently is my fault.

Oh yeah, I really didn't read it properly I just looked at all the "die foreigners die keep your hands off Japanese games" and the absurdly convoluted anti-foreigner passwords (which are still no problem to anyone who reads Japanese) on recent stuff.

Like you said, many of them think that you - and all foreigners - just want to steal the resources and game engine so that you can use them in some orgy of wilfully copyright ignoring game creation. A few less xenophobic people appreciate that there are value differences and language barriers at play and think that someone needed to politely say "thank you for your interest in the game but please keep away from it, it's not for you". One person tried to post here but couldn't and sent an email instead (to who...?).

They don't want to lose control of the game and its distribution, I guess they thought that the only people who would ever notice the thread wouldn't spread it around, or maybe their attitude changed over time as they had a website before but now there are a couple of posts suggesting distributing the final version privately (although not from the people actually developing the game, who haven't said much about all this). At least some of them recognise that there are Japanese people who are equally likely to do things they don't like with it, as with the video on niconico that led to Dash getting stopped.

[O. Van Bruce]

I don't know too much about 2-chan... only that you need to get on a japanese proxy to post there if you're not from japan.

So, if they are already that angered and can only think about their racist and xenophobic shit... why wouldn't us start to post there and make fun of all their idiocy toward us? Let's troll then a little

everyone will be behind a proxy so you won't get banned. Let's make fun of all those NEET's with our gaijin pride

Or at least I would like to. But that won't lead to anything, just to a few laughs.

[AntiFritz]

I don't know too much about 2-chan... only that you need to get on a japanese proxy to post there if you're not from japan.

So, if they are already that angered and can only think about their racist and xenophobic shit... why wouldn't us start to post there and make fun of all their idiocy toward us? Let's troll the a little

everyone will be behind a proxy so you won't get banned. Let's make fun of all those NEET's with our gaijin pride

Or at least I would like to. But that won't lead to anything, just to a few laughs.

2channel not futaba.

[Formless God]

why wouldn't us start to post there and make fun of all their idiocy toward us? Let's troll then a little

everyone will be behind a proxy so you won't get banned. Let's make fun of all those NEET's with our gaijin pride

Damn straight, /b/rother, the best countermeasure against idiots is to act like them !

[BPzeBanshee]

They don't want to lose control of the game and its distribution, I guess they thought that the only people who would ever notice the thread wouldn't spread it around, or maybe their attitude changed over time as they had a website before but now there are a couple of posts suggesting distributing the final version privately (although not from the people actually developing the game, who haven't said much about all this). At least some of them recognise that there are Japanese people who are equally likely to do things they don't like with it, as with the video on niconico that led to Dash getting stopped.

I found a version of the G-Wange engine that goes back to May 2004, and going by that it seems the content in it is somewhat different again - even the handdrawn art implies that what was planned for it is quite different from what's in there now. I actually suspect that the people of 2ch that are working on it now are not the same ones as those who worked on it back in '04, but kept the original post info as the thread's OP for each time they have to start a new thread. This would explain why the engine itself has not been modified since September of that year (there's different presets for ship styles and all of them besides the standard DDP-style one are broken and ignore a significant amount of commands).

Whoever started this may not have been paranoid but the people that are working on it now definitely are, for whatever reason.

I don't know too much about 2-chan... only that you need to get on a japanese proxy to post there if you're not from japan.

Pretty sure you don't. I was able to post on there with no issues (other than the gaijin hatin' from the forumers).

[Skykid]

Someone send me a copy of the game. I'm going to do up a really nice printed disc, box and instructions and sell a 500 limited print run for £24.99 on eBay under the acc. name 'die_foreigners_die_keep_your_hands_off_Japanese_games'

[hzt]

I actually suspect that the people of 2ch that are working on it now are not the same ones as those who worked on it back in '04, but kept the original post info as the thread's OP for each time they have to start a new thread.

As far as I remember they lost the main programmer - presumably the guy that made the game engine - quite early in the project and afterwards another guy took it over, but everyone still involved has been with it since the beginning or at least fairly early. I thought they were around long enough to have access to the website but it may be that they didn't and never had any intention of going that out in the open, but were unable to get rid of the site.