Accepting Defeat

[BeruBeru]

I'm sorry for opening a thread that might be one of the most hated kind, but I had to share.

First of all, I started playing the genre pretty seriously around 2007-2008 and felt in love with it.
I never found playing shmups a tedious task, as I was enjoying it completely.
The thing is that at some point I started to feel that I'm not making any progress,
my "greatest" achievements are nothing to be proud of, considering the amount of time I devoted to them, most people would have done them in about 1/8 of the time I spent probably, with them being getting to 2-3 in ddp, 1ccing esprade and galuda and other even less impressive achievements.
Now, after more than a year since I reached anything noteworthy, and being somewhat devoted playing regularly, I must say that I'm completely crushed.
I haven't improved one bit in a pretty long period, and while playing I began to realize that something is fundamentally wrong, it's not just the fact that I'm not improving, it takes me too much effort to do a simple thing an average person could learn in a fragment of the time and effort I need,
thus I started telling to myself the fact that not just that I lack talent,
it wouldn't be exaggerated to call myself the single most terrible player to ever play the genre and
take it seriously as I doubt there's another person with a worse ratio of practice and result than mine.
But I still kept playing, hoping to prove me wrong, but that didn't happen, I couldn't achieve any of my goals,
so I minimized them to the most basic goals I can set, and I reached none of them, and today after several days of playing a lot at some point I just figured that I'm just lying to myself when I'm saying to myself that I will improve, so I should just accept defeat, and that's it.

Anyway, I'm not quitting as I still love the genre, but I just had to face the fact that
I'm just not capable of becoming good at it no matter what, a thing that makes me feel like an idiot for trying anyway to change that.

Feel free to say whatever you want, maybe an insight or something, as I'm tired and crushed and can't think of anything.

[trap15]

Hey man, I've probably put in the same amount of time as you, and I can't even make it past 1-5 in DDP, and I've only 1cc'd extremely easy games (iPad espgal2 on normal, Futari Arrange are the only ones that come to mind).

A big part of improvement is keeping a positive attitude; it's difficult to get better when all you think is "I can't get any better, I'm terrible". It's psychosomatic.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Isn't Espgaluda 1cc considered quite a feat due to the last boss' toughness?
When I was getting into arcade gaming, every game worth its salt seemed to get harder the more I played it, the very idea of clearing one being an abstract concept, like division by zero. I still have no idea if the game I played most back in the day - Spectre Supreme - even HAS any legitimate ending. What I'm trying to say is, the internet sucked a little bit of fun out of anything out there, arcade gaming included.

[Vyxx]

Isn't Espgaluda 1cc considered quite a feat due to the last boss' toughness?

The last pattern makes my eyes bleed.

[Moniker]

Well it's important to remember that they're just games, not ends unto themselves, but a means for entertainment. Playing competitively can be fun but it's not for everyone. Certainly not for me. When it stops being fun, stop playing. You aren't going to have any death-bed regrets about not clearing Ketsui; your only regret might be spending so much time on a hobby you no longer enjoyed.

[NTSC-J]

A nerd is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.

[trap15]

A nerd is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.

[spl]

I find the problem I have is lack of focus - my thoughts tend to stray from the game and as a result I make stupid mistakes. Sounds like your problem is like mine - lack of discipline.

I think also it helps to have a plan when you play - making a route that you follow instead of just aimlessly dodging bullets and shooting stuff.

[J_Taishu]

Watch Game Center CX for inspiration.
If Arino can beat Battletoads, then you can get that 1CC on DDP.

[JBC]

It's always important to remember what first made you fall in love with shmups. I started playing them when I was a kid and was (obviously) even more terrible at them then than I am now, but was still drawn to the gameplay and in specific instances the graphics and sound. One of the first I can remember playing was the arcade of Life Force (Salamander), and I remember I wanted to play it because you controlled an awesome ship travelling through the belly of a giant snake in space, dodging bloody claws and solar flares. All the scoring stuff and Icc's were never so important until I got older and even further on, joined this forum.

I'm not very good at shmups and so I tend to stray away from the high score threads and what not until I find one that I'm naturally compelled to master. For me, it's just as much about the design of the game as it is anything else. I feel comfortable credit feeding just as long as I care enough about the game to actually try to better myself at it, but I don't pressure myself into it. You'll take away your enjoyment of the hobby if you make it something more like work.

[DJ Incompetent]

Go play Compile games. Or Fire Shark. Or Gradius Rebirth. Or one of the weekly Indie/doujins.
Nobody's holding anybody to a deadline for accomplishments. So go enjoy yourself on somethin' easier.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Watch Game Center CX for inspiration.
If Arino can beat Battletoads, then you can get that 1CC on DDP.

[AntiFritz]

I had to check twice to reassure myself that dtp wasnt the op.

[Moniker]

I had to check twice to reassure myself that dtp wasnt the op.

It is indeed odd that the phenomenon of the self-hating shmupper exists.

[Dazzyman]

I play shmups for fun. Dunno why but I prefer vert ones. To me they relax me and I guess its just hand to eye and little thinking that I enjoy them so much. It's rare nowadays to get arcade style games and I do adore pretty much every genre out there (I just finished Kingdom of amalur on 360 at 102hrs and played nothing else for two weeks) but I always go back to my shmups for comfort. For me most games date but my shmups never have.

I'm not great at them, I only ever play 1cc and there's a lot I get to 1-3 or best 1-5 but it never bothers me. I have pretty much them all on JPN 360 and have had various systems and even bought machines for them(saturn). Only game I think I ever 1cc has been Battle Garrega.

There's some that aren't my cup of tea like cute shmups (mushi) but saying that I love muchi muchi pork. I tend to flit a lot with them as well. I think my fav nowadays is the Raiden fighters series as I can get near the end of all of them. I do get a bit narky with 1 if I can't get 100k by 3rd level so restart sometimes then I remind myself just to play to survive and I enjoy it more.

My thoughts are play for fun and enjoy, forget the high scores and just survive and then stick with that game. Yep the manic ones are a different breed but again learn the patterns and eek out getting a bit further each go


There meant to be fun, just enjoy

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Isn't Espgaluda 1cc considered quite a feat due to the last boss' toughness?

It's not that hard when you understand the strategy of the final pattern. You tap the guard barrier when you are about to be hit and immediately move off to the left or right for the shot release because it refills the boss' energy if it hits him, then run back and hit him with your normal shot until you are about to be hit again and repeat that. Make it there with a spare man (or 2) and you should be good to go.

[shadowbringer]

"art is a marathon, not a sprint".

speaking from personal experience, even if you have flaws, you can compensate or more than compensate with other virtues (and maybe at one point work on overcoming said flaws), if you can discover them. May each opportunity you had to give up be remembered later as a motivation, and a reminder of how far you've come, and how many times you thought about giving up before. Take a rest if you need, you may find the shmups you play nowadays easier when you come back to them.

[Deca]

I've found myself improving much faster once I stopped focusing on my shortcomings and just adopted a positive attitude. It can be difficult at times, but the least you can do is avoid outright negativity. I'd be lying if I said that those thoughts had never entered my mind, but at this point I can look back at what I have accomplished and feel good about that.

Taking extended breaks can definitely help quite a bit. It allows you to unlearn bad habits and ruts you may have worked yourself into that prevent you from seeing an easier or better way to deal with something that's giving you trouble.

[Kaiser]

>Launch a shmup
>Try to play well
>Die once in first two stages
>Ragequit

Well for example this is what happens to me and i've beat quite a lot of shmups including Battle Bakraid and Raiden Fighters 2. Do you guys have any idea how to deal with that? IT HAPPENS to me every damn time.

[Gus]

This topic right here is the perfect example why this forum is utter shit and why the asians so much better at these games. So many bad kids who play a few credits in between some mindless gamemovie, get destroyed, and instead of sucking it down and getting better come on here to shitpost about how bad they are and there's no chance of them ever improving. Go ahead and quit if you want to have that attitude.

[JBC]

this forum is utter shit.

Epic 530th post bro

asians so much better at these games

Who needs a sig?

[O. Van Bruce]

Hey... I think you shold stop flagelating yourself. I mean, shmups are for having fun, even if you fail miserably at then.

But there is one thing that worry me of your attitude and it's just a hunch. Do you play shmups just to brag about clearing games? Or do you play for the fun?

I've considered every part of the road i've been into as a fun and sometimes hilarious experience. Even when i failed miserably at almost every Cave shmup I started a stream program to let watch other friends how me and friend were utterly anhiliated by Ketsui, DaiOuJou. Just watch how much fun we had:

http://www.livestream.com/riicien/video ... 3f3047d169

(It's in spanish)

lol... we were so noobs back then XD

Can't you just have fun in the same way?

[BeruBeru]

Gus, that's racist as you're implying an entire group is being naturally better at something without any knowledge to back it up, and an obvious troll as what you wrote completely contradicts everything I said as I'm far from being one of the horde of strictly mainstream people who call themselves "gamers", not mad though.

And O. van, I am having fun, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't be playing, but at some point I started taking failures way too seriously, that's the problem.

[Icarus]

It is indeed odd that the phenomenon of the self-hating shmupper exists.

Yes, it's only a matter of time before some of you start cutting yourselves. </sarcasm>

And O. van, I am having fun, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't be playing, but at some point I started taking failures way too seriously, that's the problem.

It's only a game. If you're failing that hard and that often, go play something else.
What's the point of forcing yourself to push on if you're going to be making the same mistakes? The brute-force, grind-it-out method does not apply to shooting games.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I doubt there's another person with a worse ratio of practice and result than mine.

I'll take that bet.

[BeruBeru]

It's not the problem with failure in game as I can take it, and it's not literally doing really bad runs, it's the failure of not improving.
It seemed that in periods that I had very little time I had huge improvement, but after that when I could spend more time things just got worse.
Almost like the more I try, the less I can get.
I really wish I could just know what my shortcomings are so I could work on them, but when I play and shit happens close to the beginning I just restart, many times over a short period of time.
I know that it's probably more attitude more than anything else, but it is quite frustrating, not the games, the feeling of not getting better.

[JBC]

Sounds like you have a problem that can only be solved by time. Keep playing shmups, casually and as you see fit. Don't get mad at them, and put them down when they become frustrating.

When you are playing one ask yourself if you truly like it. If you don't, move on to another. I don't like DoDonPachi and it's one of the most talked about on the boards but that doesn't matter. If it doesn't appeal to you don't force it. Just stick to the ones you like.

Now the most important thing. If you can't swing it - sleep on it. Your subconscious will figure it out on it's own. With MANY shmups I've gone from bombing out one night to absolute perfection the next morning and all I had to do was let my background thoughts deal with it.

Either way, don't just give up. Shmups are beautiful games just like games from any genre. You don't have to be good at them to appreciate.

[BeruBeru]

Like I said, I haven't given up, but I reached some sort of barrier that I'm having a problem removing.

[Drachenherz]

After reading the threadtitle, I thought it was about a new shmup, like some kind of sequel to "under defeat" or so...

[Eno]

Watch Game Center CX for inspiration.
If Arino can beat Battletoads, then you can get that 1CC on DDP.

Listen to this man. Just do it.

>Launch a shmup
>Try to play well
>Die once in first two stages
>Ragequit

Happens to me every single time every single game. I usually just pump up the difficulty and play the troubling stages over and over a few times, focusing on surviving, then going back to a lower difficulty feels like a breeze(usually). If it still fails I just say screw it and try to cut the most dangerous moves of those stages from that run.