Console Flash Carts w/ USB

[iammud]

Anyone have any experience with console flash carts w/ USB support? Before you crucify me for the subject, at least see what I'm using it for, first.

I'd like to hear some input from current flash cart owners on how their carts work in comparison to this concept: Do they have some cheesy menu when you turn the system on, or can they boot straight to game? Can you leave the USB plugged in while the system is turned on (obviously not transferring to, just plugged in), or do you have to disconnect it? How do you transfer to it? Can you rename files directly on it (thinking no)? What type of games don't work on it? Etc
Also, if you own any flash cart at all, leave your opinion. If I can't get per game loading, I'm going for the best overall cart.

I've got this weird setup going where I want to transfer a game to the flash cart from a PC frontend, then use a USB controlled power strip to boot that system, so my HTPC & MAME cab FEs use the real hardware instead of an emulator. I'm only using hacked consoles and flash carts because the technology allows me to automate things.

Why am I doing this? Because I need someplace to store all my consoles, so why not use my woody MAME cabinet? If I'm going to do that, why not use a frontend to control them? Might be a good place to store one of these XM29s here, too. Exactly.


I see the Everdrive N64 and SNES have USB support. I contacted the dev to find out if you can leave the USB plugged in while the system is powered up, but my guess is a switch will be required. I like that they use SD cards, because I'll be doing a lot of writing to it, which will eventually make it go bad. Unfortunately these have essentially what I'm considering a nag menu, but at least it leaves you on the start game menu function every time. Obviously I really hate emulator and flash cart menus.

Also, lots of these carts just use SD cards, so I bet I could share an SD port with a PC, and then turn it off before the system is turned on. Dreamcast, Sega Genesis, NES, all have SD card carts, but no USB.

[SolderFace]

the only way to avoid scrolling through huge menus is if you dont legally own every SNES game ever made. in that case, you probably have less than 50 games. thats not really a thing to feel bad about. would you rather load SD cards and CF cards manually for every game? thats as bad as loading a SNES cartridge for every game. your going to have to do what the poor people do and press down for a few seconds to find a game. I think this is a better product

http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.ph ... ucts_id=84

I looked at both and my conclusion is this... everdrive has save states and slow load times. thats it

Retrozone has near zero loading time, game genie support, CF support, battery emulation, save emulation. slightly better game support (only by like 3 or 4 extra games).

I can't remember if everdrive has battery emulation for very early snes games. I think it does have the regular save support as well as save states. I would rather have game genie support than save states. save states kinda ruin a game and take you out of the experience and difficulty of the game. game genie lets you level select anyway if you know how.

[iammud]

I don't need Game Genie, saves or any of that. My pet peeve with menus isn't so much they're a pain to navigate, but because they look awful. With a flash cart w/ USB support I can completely control what's loaded on it, and simplify things (a few button presses after FE game launch, and you're in game).
But seriously, who wants to go from a nice frontend theme to this? Ugh.


For years the menus have been my issue with emulators, to the point I link all my roms directly to the console's dashboard (if possible), and always use frontends on PC. Hell, I even have a way to control game launching on Xbox1 & 360, Naomi (and hopefully PS3 soon) from PC frontends, but this still means using emulators for all the older stuff. I'm sick of having everything all scattered and want one uniform frontend & cabinet for all the real hardware and emulators. Call it OCD if you wish, but for me it's more like an obsessive scripting disorder.

The reason I like Everdrive is because the Nintendo ones have USB support, so I can control what game is stored on it...ie from script delete old game, transfer new game, so you can just mash the game start button until it loads (only 1 game stored on the device means it'll always be the top selection, so no navigating).

If I can find a way to share SD/CF cards with a PC, without actually physically swapping the card to do so, I'll use the Paks (and all the other flash card systems). But I'm more concerned with what interface I can simplify enough to pretty much go directly into game. I don't mind hitting a few buttons, but def don't want to navigate ANOTHER list, unless there's no other option. *edit - this actually might be the way I go with overall. I found a really cheap way to control a USB switch from a PC (which I think I'm going to need anyway). If I have a switch, I can split between two systems, and switch to the powered down system, and vice versa. All I have to do is power down the 5v, and it's fine. Is there a motherboard out there that can control the +5v on the USB ports? That'd be sweet.
I know some of these carts have a "last game played" feature, which would be awesome, cause that means I could just rewrite that file instead of the whole rom.

[shmuppyLove]

Is there a motherboard out there that can control the +5v on the USB ports? That'd be sweet.

You should be able to wire a switch in-line with the +5V line from a regular 10-pin USB header on a motherboard?



It might be possible to enable or disable the port programmatically in the OS as well, if you want software control.

[SolderFace]

depends on the OS. for example, apple broke USB standards with OSX 10.6 and up now that the computer sends data first. I know cause it affected me with a usb midi controller. so to sum it up, software control has limits only on some machines.

[iammud]

Is there a motherboard out there that can control the +5v on the USB ports? That'd be sweet.

You should be able to wire a switch in-line with the +5V line from a regular 10-pin USB header on a motherboard?

It might be possible to enable or disable the port programmatically in the OS as well, if you want software control.

That's essentially the plan, but instead I'm wiring the switch to a USB switch, like a KVM but w/ no video or sound. The cool things about KVM and USB switches is they come with a relay switch built in, so you can easily wire them up to serial for com port switching. I suppose I could make my own switch, but I'm going to try and source some cheap ones online.

Because of GroovyMAME I'm stuck on XP. Looking into controlling the USB port now, but I don't think that'll be possible with XP. Thanks for the input.

[SolderFace]

you can do lots of stuff with relays if you build it but you probably need more current than the USB ports can give. so you will need some small 12v or 5v wall supply. controlling relays from a computer is really easy. use a teensy or an arduino over USB or just use the parallel port. you could even use a shift register with the com port.

[iammud]

you can do lots of stuff with relays if you build it but you probably need more current than the USB ports can give. so you will need some small 12v or 5v wall supply. controlling relays from a computer is really easy. use a teensy or an arduino over USB or just use the parallel port. you could even use a shift register with the com port.

What I'm planning on doing is sitting down with someone well versed on this subject, and build or modify something to switch everything I need. What I'd really like to find is a cheaper alternative for the USB controlled power strips, since they're $80USD (but control like 6 systems).

I ordered a Dreamcast SD card reader from eBay. Since I already have a control PCB in my vert arcade cab that does 360, Dreamcast, and a few other systems, I'm going to share the 360 with a PC and 360 controls/video/sound on a KVM, while leaving the DC VGA & sound for it hooked up to port 3 on the KVM. This is only a tester though, since a Naomi (w/ ftp support) is going in its place.

Once that's tested and working, I'll work on expanding my woody cab. Right now it looks like consoles that are capable of being controlled by a frontend are: Xbox 1 & 360 (certain), PS3 (not possible yet), Wii/Gamecube (not possible yet), Dreamcast (fairly certain), Naomi (absolutely), N64 (certain), SNES (certain), NES (certain), and Genesis 32x, CD, SMS (certain), TG16 (possibly). Now that would be one craaaazy setup. I don't think I'll do 'em all, but you get the idea.

This will work perfect for NES: http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.ph ... ucts_id=35
Check out this badboy for the Everdrive Genesis! http://krikzz.com/link-unit.html
I'm still not sure if the Everdrive 64 and SNES work the same, but if they do I won't need many switches at all. He's also got a Turbo flash cart coming out, WOOOOOT!
If only I could control a Neo-Geo mutlicart from USB, mmm.

[SolderFace]

none of those old consoles actually need more than 12v. approach the overall design with that in mind. you may find a much better solution than 6 wall warts and a 110AC switch.

[BuckoA51]

Well for the record I think you're being way to anal about this whole "the menu looks crap" thing but, I can tell you the SuperUFO Pro 8 for the SNES has a rather nice looking menu that even plays you "Jingle Bells" if you want it to. To activate USB mode you have to select it from this menu though. At that point the cart will wait for the PC software to upload the Rom. Oh, the ROM uploading software won't work on Windows x64 because the drivers not signed.

[iammud]

Well for the record I think you're being way to anal about this whole "the menu looks crap" thing but, I can tell you the SuperUFO Pro 8 for the SNES has a rather nice looking menu that even plays you "Jingle Bells" if you want it to. To activate USB mode you have to select it from this menu though. At that point the cart will wait for the PC software to upload the Rom. Oh, the ROM uploading software won't work on Windows x64 because the drivers not signed.

I might be too anal, but who doesn't like anal? It's also for the novelty factor of using the real consoles instead of emulators in my MAME cabs. Also, if I'm going to tie all the consoles into a frontend, why not do it per game? At worst I'm going to have 1 menu item per console, just to switch over to the flash cart menu, but that's kinda lame.

I was looking at the SUFOP8 as a backup, so your input is greatly appreciated. I never even thought of the carts requiring you to activate USB mode; I seriously hope this isn't the case with the Everdrives, otherwise I'm sorta screwed. If this is the case, I'm using an Arduino just to control unmodded system's XMBs through keyboard encoder, so I can just patch that into the Cthulhu, allowing me to automate the controls on flash cart menus.

[shmuppyLove]

Oh, the ROM uploading software won't work on Windows x64 because the drivers not signed.

That's not a big deal, it's easy enough to get around.

[BuckoA51]

You can only really get around it using Virtualbox or by selecting the "Disable driver signing enforcement" every time you boot, that's too much hassle for me, unless I'm missing something?

[iammud]

You can only really get around it using Virtualbox or by selecting the "Disable driver signing enforcement" every time you boot, that's too much hassle for me, unless I'm missing something?

You're missing the ability to automate through script.

Speaking of scripting, the Everdrive dev got back to me and it seems these will work perfect. You can transfer game using command prompt. The system MUST be powered up during transfer, and it automatically starts game after completed. No need to disconnect USB, only need to be able to cycle the power on the system.

It looks like one could do this entire project from eBay parts. There's plenty of IR and USB devices that do power, some a/v switch boxes with IR support (or a stereo receiver), then there's a handful of ways to use your PC as an IR remote. The controls could all be wireless controllers for the consoles, or wire the Cthulhu up to each system, only powering the system in use (would require a keyboard encoder alongside the Cthulhu). So in other words, this is going to work!

[shmuppyLove]

You can only really get around it using Virtualbox or by selecting the "Disable driver signing enforcement" every time you boot, that's too much hassle for me, unless I'm missing something?

I think there's a switch you can add through boot.ini / BCDedit, isn't there?

[SolderFace]

You can use a relay to power cycle the 12v line without modding the snes

[iammud]

You can use a relay to power cycle the 12v line without modding the snes

It dawned on me earlier tonight that NES and SNES consoles must have voltage regulators built into them, since they can use practically any wall wart over 7v. IIRC the N64 is 12v. I'm going to make a simple breadboard PCB that pulls 1 12v wall wart, that breaks out back to the systems, with relays.