DLC's availability in the future (split from Mushi HD)

[bcass]

I hate the idea that one day my Xbox will break down and Xbox Live will be gone and I'll have no more Futari Black Label. That would be terrible.

People really need to stop fretting about this. Xbox Live is a major revenue stream for Microsoft's gaming division. It's got about as much chance of disappearing as Microsoft disappearing as a company. Besides, for JTAG owners, yeah, most of the shmup DLC is freely available if you know where to look. Also, there's nothing stopping you backing up all your DLC to a USB stick and using it on hacked console further down the line, should your 360 ever die.

[Udderdude]

there's nothing stopping you backing up all your DLC to a USB stick and using it on hacked console further down the line, should your 360 ever die.

Yeah, let's convinently forget that there are constant attempts at passing laws making this illegal/impossible. Not exactly a good backup plan.

[bcass]

There are laws planned to stop you using a USB stick as a save location on the 360? That's a new one on me.

[Udderdude]

I was talking about the hacked console part, nice dodge though. :P

[bcass]

It's a non issue. Nobody gives a shit if hacking consoles is illegal, in the same way no one gives a shit about using MAME.

[Friendly]

I hate the idea that one day my Xbox will break down and Xbox Live will be gone and I'll have no more Futari Black Label. That would be terrible.

People really need to stop fretting about this.

I don't think they are fretting about this quite enough yet. We, the gamers, continue to get the short end of the stick as far as digital distribution is concerned. There is no competiton (=high prices), we get nickle and dimed for DLC, DRM keeps you from transfering ownership (selling,giving away), you can't make backups because it's locked to one console, and no-one can guarantee that you'll be able to re-download it and use it on a future system. And who says you'll be able to continue to use XBLA/PSN with your current consoles forever? Example: Xbox Live for Xbox 1 was shut down 2-3 years ago.

[bcass]

DRM keeps you from transfering ownership (selling,giving away)

This is factually incorrect. If you want to sell your downloaded games/DLC then simply create a new gamertag for each game you buy. When you get bored of it, sell the game together with the associated gamertag. Problem solved.

you can't make backups because it's locked to one console

Also factually incorrect. If your console breaks you simply redownload the license to use it on the new console.

no-one can guarantee that you'll be able to re-download it and use it on a future system. And who says you'll be able to continue to use XBLA/PSN with your current consoles forever?

The existence of Xbox Live is wholey irrelevant as to whether you can play downloaded content on a 360 in the future, as discussed in my previous posts.

Example: Xbox Live for Xbox 1 was shut down 2-3 years ago.

The original online service for the original Xbox is hardly comparable to the 360 version of Live. Besides, all that old DLC content can still be played on a chipped Xbox 1. You might have to dig around for it (if you haven't already bought it previously) but it's out there. There isn't much of it to be honest. We're talking about a handful of map packs for a bunch of FPSs.

[StarCreator]

The original online service for the original Xbox is hardly comparable to the 360 version of Live. Besides, all that old DLC content can still be played on a chipped Xbox 1. You might have to dig around for it (if you haven't already bought it previously) but it's out there. There isn't much of it to be honest. We're talking about a handful of map packs for a bunch of FPSs.

Don't forget all those DDR songpacks that are still sitting on my original Xbox.

They still work.

[bcass]

Don't forget all those DDR songpacks that are still sitting on my original Xbox.

They still work.

Yeah, there's those too. If your Xbox is chipped (or you transfer them to a chipped Xbox using a Memory Unit) they're easy to backup.

[Friendly]

DRM keeps you from transfering ownership (selling,giving away)

This is factually incorrect. If you want to sell your downloaded games/DLC then simply create a new gamertag for each game you buy. When you get bored of it, sell the game together with the associated gamertag. Problem solved.

That sounds like a swell idea. Good luck with that on systems that don't support more than one gamertag, eg, Wii and PS Vita.

you can't make backups because it's locked to one console

Also factually incorrect. If your console breaks you simply redownload the license to use it on the new console.

How is it factually incorrect that is locked to one console?

no-one can guarantee that you'll be able to re-download it and use it on a future system. And who says you'll be able to continue to use XBLA/PSN with your current consoles forever?

The existence of Xbox Live is wholey irrelevant as to whether you can play downloaded content on a 360 in the future, as discussed in my previous posts.

It is quite relevant for legally re-downloading your digital content, in case your console breaks.

Example: Xbox Live for Xbox 1 was shut down 2-3 years ago.

Also factually incorrect. Xbox Live for the original Xbox was discontinued on the 15th April 2010

Right.

Edit: typos

[bcass]

That sounds like a swell idea. Good luck with that on systems that don't support more than one gamertag, eg, Wii and PS Vita.

The Wii has been hacked for years now. It's also very easy to hack one. It takes about 5 seconds on Google to find sites that have pretty much every downloadable game ever released for the Wii. I'm sure the Vita will end up being hacked at some point or other. Certainly long before the download service disappears.

you can't make backups because it's locked to one console

Also factually incorrect. If your console breaks you simply redownload the license to use it on the new console.

How is it factually incorrect that is locked to one console?

You said you can't make backups. That's the bit that is factually incorrect.

no-one can guarantee that you'll be able to re-download it and use it on a future system. And who says you'll be able to continue to use XBLA/PSN with your current consoles forever?

The existence of Xbox Live is wholey irrelevant as to whether you can play downloaded content on a 360 in the future, as discussed in my previous posts.

It is quite relevant for legally re-downloading your digital content, in case your console breaks.

Well, if they can't be bothered keeping the files on servers to sell then I very much doubt they'll care very much about anyone obtaining the files through other means. It certainly won't be on my conscience, especially given that I've bought all this content in the first place.

[Friendly]

Everything I said still stands. And because there are no counter-arguments, you now feel the need to tell me that I should resort to illegal means to exercise my rights. (LOL)

I don't think they are fretting about this quite enough yet. We, the gamers, continue to get the short end of the stick as far as digital distribution is concerned. There is no competiton (=high prices), we get nickle and dimed for DLC, DRM keeps you from transfering ownership (selling,giving away), you can't make backups because it's locked to one console, and no-one can guarantee that you'll be able to re-download it and use it on a future system. And who says you'll be able to continue to use XBLA/PSN with your current consoles forever? Example: Xbox Live for Xbox 1 was shut down 2 years ago.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

you can't make backups because it's locked to one console

Also factually incorrect. If your console breaks you simply redownload the license to use it on the new console.

Isnt JPN only DLC like EspGaluda 2 dlc and J360s used outside Asia lost if the machine its on breaks down?

[JOW]

Isnt JPN only DLC like EspGaluda 2 dlc and J360s used outside Asia lost if the machine its on breaks down?

No.

When you transfer licenses all are transferred in one go, irrespective of region of origin or console region.

[bcass]

Everything I said still stands.

Everything you said has been fully countered. Stop being so blinkered. At this point in time you can do it all above board. If the servers ever go down then there are ways and means of continuing to play your paid for content even if you have to change console.

you can't make backups because it's locked to one console

Also factually incorrect. If your console breaks you simply redownload the license to use it on the new console.

Isnt JPN only DLC like EspGaluda 2 dlc and J360s used outside Asia lost if the machine its on breaks down?

No. You can redownload it again - it appears in your download history. You can also back it up to a USB device.

[Special World]

I hate the idea that one day my Xbox will break down and Xbox Live will be gone and I'll have no more Futari Black Label. That would be terrible.

People really need to stop fretting about this. Xbox Live is a major revenue stream for Microsoft's gaming division. It's got about as much chance of disappearing as Microsoft disappearing as a company. Besides, for JTAG owners, yeah, most of the shmup DLC is freely available if you know where to look. Also, there's nothing stopping you backing up all your DLC to a USB stick and using it on hacked console further down the line, should your 360 ever die.

There's no guarantee that XBox Live won't undergo a major revision at some point, as it did in the transition from Xbox to Xbox 360.

I didn't know you could back up all your DLC to USB. I'll have to look into it.

[bcass]

There's no guarantee that XBox Live won't undergo a major revision at some point, as it did in the transition from Xbox to Xbox 360.

I've already addressed this issue. The continued existence of Xbox Live is irrelevant as to whether or not you'll be able to keep playing your downloaded games in the future.

[bcass]

I didn't know you could back up all your DLC to USB. I'll have to look into it.

It's ultra-simple. You can also play your DLC on other peoples consoles as long as you're signed into Live.

[Friendly]

Everything I said still stands.

Everything you said has been fully countered. Stop being so blinkered. At this point in time you can do it all above board. [I was talking about the future, not this point in time] If the servers ever go down then there are ways and means of continuing to play your paid for content even if you have to change console.

Yes, by illegal means. First you claim all is fine with the way with digital distribution is now, but next you tell us we should simply resort to modding our game systems and illegally download files in case the content becomes unavailable. [sidenote: So it's ok to warez stuff that isn't available? Following this line of thinking, is it alright to illegally download region-locked software right now, if it isn't officially available in ones region? "It's not piracy if you close your eyes"?]

And you don't even see a slight discrepancy in your logic? Then you can't be helped.

Everything you said has been fully countered.

When or where was that? You didn't even address half my post.

I don't think they are fretting about this quite enough yet. We, the gamers, continue to get the short end of the stick as far as digital distribution is concerned. There is no competiton (=high prices), we get nickle and dimed for DLC, DRM keeps you from transfering ownership (selling,giving away), you can't make backups because it's locked to one console, and no-one can guarantee that you'll be able to re-download it and use it on a future system. And who says you'll be able to continue to use XBLA/PSN with your current consoles forever? Example: Xbox Live for Xbox 1 was shut down 2 years ago.

[ebarrett]

Everything I said still stands.

Everything you said has been fully countered. Stop being so blinkered.

I'm pretty sure, and this is not based on exchanges in this thread only (tbh I didn't even bother reading everything, knowing where it was coming from and where it is headed), that Friendly is just an elaborate troll.

[Friendly]

I didn't know you could back up all your DLC to USB. I'll have to look into it.

There is not much of a point, because you need to be signed in to Live with the account the DLC was purchased with to use these "backups". You won't be able to install them on a new 360 once the Live service for 360 has been discontinued. All this saves you is the time it takes to re-download.

[Friendly]

Everything I said still stands.

Everything you said has been fully countered. Stop being so blinkered.

I'm pretty sure, and this is not based on exchanges in this thread only (tbh I didn't even bother reading everything, knowing where it was coming from and where it is headed), that Friendly is just an elaborate troll.

Right, a troll. Look who's talking: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 66#p771066

[ebarrett]

I'm pretty sure, and this is not based on exchanges in this thread only (tbh I didn't even bother reading everything, knowing where it was coming from and where it is headed), that Friendly is just an elaborate troll.

Right, a troll. Look who's talking: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 66#p771066

Sorry, I'll argue over many things, but I'm not falling into some trap I called two posts earlier.

[Ghegs]

Drop it, you two.

[bcass]

First you claim all is fine with the way with digital distribution is now, but next you tell us we should simply resort to modding our game systems and illegally download files in case the content becomes unavailable.

Nowhere did I say that you should mod your system and illegally download content while the service is still running. However, IF, and only IF the service does disappear at some point (very very unlikely now given the prominence of Xbox and Xbox Live as a global brand) then THERE WILL STILL BE WAYS YOU CAN PLAY YOUR DOWNLOADED CONTENT, EVEN IF YOU NEED TO CHANGE CONSOLE. THE WORLD WILL NOT END AND ALL YOUR PAID FOR CONTENT WILL NOT BE LOST FOREVER. If piracy bothers you at that point, then it really shouldn't because it clearly doesn't bother Microsoft, otherwise they'd still be selling the games on their download service.

Given how clearly I've laid out the information for you, I can only assume that you're just being deliberately confrontational. In which event, I won't be wasting any more time on you.

[Udderdude]

THERE WILL STILL BE WAYS YOU CAN PLAY YOUR DOWNLOADED CONTENT, EVEN IF YOU NEED TO CHANGE CONSOLE. THE WORLD WILL NOT END AND ALL YOUR PAID FOR CONTENT WILL NOT BE LOST FOREVER.

If piracy bothers you at that point, then it really shouldn't because it clearly doesn't bother Microsoft, otherwise they'd still be selling the games on their download service.

Your naivety is just astonishing. I don't know if you've bothered checking the news in the past several months, but there's been draconian laws flying all over the goddamn place and it's only a matter of time before the quasi-legal methods you think are so reliable and foolproof get stomped all over.

[bcass]

Your naivety is just astonishing. I don't know if you've bothered checking the news in the past several months, but there's been draconian laws flying all over the goddamn place and it's only a matter of time before the quasi-legal methods you think are so reliable and foolproof get stomped all over.

No amount of changes in the law is going to stop you from copying your downloaded 360 games to a USB stick. No amount of changes to the law is going to stop you from acquiring a JTAG 360 (or even making one yourself).

[Blackbird]

I'd just like to point out that what you're suggesting as a workaround is a complete pain in the ass for something that should be rightfully owned by the player to begin with. So it's fine if your DLC can disappear, because you can HACK your console to get it back? Get real!

Back in my day, we had these things called "expansion packs". You got a ton of content, and it came on this disk so that you already had a backup. It's not account-locked, and you can re-install it as many times as you want. You can also make as many backups as you want without having to worry about hacking a console, so you can theoretically never lose your upgrade. Oh, and did I mention that it's not a worthless digital download, but an actual product that you can sell and recoup money from if you no longer want the "DLC"?

DLC and downloadable-only games blow, period. They were invented to take control and ownership away from the players so that game developers could make more money.

[bcass]

I'd just like to point out that what you're suggesting as a workaround is a complete pain in the ass for something that should be rightfully owned by the player to begin with. So it's fine if your DLC can disappear, because you can HACK your console to get it back? Get real!

You only have to do this in the equally unlikely event that Xbox Live is suddenly going to disappear overnight and your old console dies. This ridiculous doomsday scenario that people concoct that all these games will be lost in the future is moronic at best.

[Ex-Cyber]

<stuff>

Download-only vs. "actual product" isn't the issue at all. There are retail boxed games out now that won't install/run unless you're signed into the appropriate account, in essentially the same way that a user-made backup of a downloaded DRM-encumbered game won't.

Otherwise, yes, publishers are pretty much doing an end run around the limitations of copyright by minimizing traditional property rights. The content cartels and the information-wants-to-be-free crowd mostly agree that copyright is broken in the digital age. They mostly disagree on whether it gives publishers and platform vendors too much control or too little.

You only have to do this in the equally unlikely event that Xbox Live is suddenly going to disappear overnight and your old console dies. This ridiculous doomsday scenario that people concoct that all these games will be lost in the future is moronic at best.

Such a scenario is implausibly remote today. It is virtually certain in 20 or 30 years. If you think nobody cares about owning and trading 20+-year-old games, I wonder which threads you've been reading around here.