New to bullet hells

[Obscura]

So, hi, I'm new, both to this forums and to bullet hells.

I'm not new to shmups as a whole, though; I grew up during the 8/16 bit era, and some of my childhood favorites include Abadox, R-Type 3 (never finished it though, damn fourth boss ), Gyruss (NES), Gradius 3 (SNES), 1942 (emulated via MAME), and some game from the arcade near me in the late '90s that I can't recall the name of; it was vertical scrolling, and had a giant stealth bomber as the second boss (if anyone knows the name of this, I'd love to know what it was!).

Anyways, I ran across System11's review for Imperishable Night, and it inspired me to download it and give it a whirl; I fell in love with the game, and after a few weeks (and, apparently, about 33 hours of play time), 1CC'd path B on Normal difficulty. I gave Suberranean Animism a whirl, and didn't care for it at all; a combination of its first two stages being way too long (especially the second, since both the miniboss and end boss take for-fucking-ever to kill), its score system doesn't really work well on normal difficulty (the graze-bar doesn't fill enough since there's not enough on the screen, so the system is essentially "get to the point of collection as much as you can"; even though I don't play for score so much as survival, having a good score system to play with makes the early levels a lot more fun once survival is mastered in them), and only one of the six shot types felt at all usable (Reimu A). Meanwhile, while I was playing IN, I stumbled across the forums here, and saw someone mention Futari as "Touhou done right"; I downloaded SlowMame and a 1.5 rom, played it, and fell in love quite quickly. The same sort of masochistic love I had for Abadox and R-Type 3 as a child (Stage 3 of Futari 1.5 original is absolutely demolishing me, lol).

Anyways, I'm wondering what other games I should seek out and try. It's got to be either PC or something I can emulate easily, since I don't any console (or even a TV), I'd rather not have to go to too huge of lengths to manage rank (which, from what I've read, eliminates Raizing games from the possibilities), and would rather it not be too hard (Futari is certainly hard enough for a n00b like me). A few that are on the "to try" list:

Crimzon Clover (acquiring this may prove troublesome...)
Dragon Blaze (assuming MAME has a way of setting rapid-fire; I assume it does)
ESPGaluda (I'd like to branch out a bit more before diving deeper into Cave, although this one does sound a lot like what I'm looking for based on what I've read)
DeathSmiles

Anything else I should add to this list?

[drunkninja24]

Certainly check out Futari, Original mode isn't terribly difficult and the scoring system is extremely straightforward and easy to pick up on.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Forget about those newer games on your backlog for the time being and give R-Type III another try. Don't let such a masterpiece go unfinished!

[ebarrett]

Oh look it's this week's "I'm new to shmups" topic.

I'd rather not have to go to too huge of lengths to manage rank (which, from what I've read, eliminates Raizing games from the possibilities)

Scaremongers go home!

[rancor]

Check my sig for all you need to know about doujin PC shmups. Check out the "Free Downloads" section for your first hit..

[Illyrian]

Awesome to see another new face around here! Welcome!

Here are some doujin style shmups you can play on your PC, that I would recommend:

Blue Wish Resurrection
Eden's Aegis
Exceed 3rd Jade Penetrate
Touhou 10: Mountain of Faith

All of these are pretty easy

Those are just 3 to start you off, on mame you could try (these are harder than those above on normal difficulty):

Dodonpachi (vert)
Progear no Arashi (hori)
TRY Dragonblaze (vert) (just for the experience)

If you want a taste of badass bullet hell, give Ketsui a quick whirl but prepare to get devastated. It's worth trying though just to see what you can get into later on.

Hope this helps!

[Ed Oscuro]

Psikyo is not as bad as all that. Good games generally, put the emphasis mainly on survival.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Jamestown is a good entry shmup if you have an half decent PC

Import Mushimisama Futari and EspGaluda 2 as soon as you can since theyve been out awhile and probably near going out of print

[Illyrian]

I disagree about espgaluda II, the finicky and frankly convoluted scoring system will drive a new player totally bonkers in my opinion!

[OBSCVRA]

Nothing i can really add to the above suggestions, besides perhaps dont shy away from the Raizing games based on the opinions of others. Give em a go, you might find you love the crap out of them... like i do .


cool name btw...

[ancestral-knowledge]

Mushihimesama Futari 1.5. Available on all platforms and just the best allrounder imo. Nothing wrong there. Play Original Mode and try to get better but don't try for a 1CC being a beginner.

someone mention Futari as "Touhou done right"

shot him in the face

[Skykid]

I disagree about espgaluda II, the finicky and frankly convoluted scoring system will drive a new player totally bonkers in my opinion!

I'd agree with that. Fucking incredible game though.

[O. Van Bruce]

Meanwhile, while I was playing IN, I stumbled across the forums here, and saw someone mention Futari as "Touhou done right"; I downloaded SlowMame and a 1.5 rom, played it, and fell in love quite quickly. The same sort of masochistic love I had for Abadox and R-Type 3 as a child (Stage 3 of Futari 1.5 original is absolutely demolishing me, lol).

You are my friend now... Go download Futari Black Label and you'll feel a more intense whip

Also... when you feel like going crazy with a shmup, go play HELLSINKER...

meanwhile... stick to cave shmups and touhou...

[Annoyboy]

Thematically, I would say Espgaluda II is closer to Futari than any of Cave's other games. You should have plenty of fun as long as you just play it and don't worry about scoring. As for Futari, you should probably play the Black Label version to start with, it's a bit more forgiving. I'm not sure if DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu is emulated or not, but I'd also recommend that. DeathSmiles should be pretty good for you too.

[MovingTarget]

I have completely fallen in love with Guwange since it was released on xbox live. I highly recommend it

[Hagane]

Dragon Blaze (assuming MAME has a way of setting rapid-fire; I assume it does)

If you try this one, have in mind that it doesn't play like a Cave or Touhou game. Even though it is bullet hell and you'll definitely be dodging stuff, the focus is put on identifying the main threats and taking them down fast with Dragon Shot, for which you need to be playing close range most of the time. If you try to play reactively trying to avoid most patterns and using Dragon Shot just as another option you'll die very fast, and that could give you a wrong impression of the game (something I see a lot on these forums).

If that sounds good to you then definitely go for it, it's an excellent shooter and the very best in Psikyo's history. Check out their other games if you can, they mostly range from solid to great. If you just want to focus on bullet hell, Gunbird 2 and Strikers 1999 are also good choices (though GB2 is really hard).

As for Touhou, did you try UFO? I've been playing that one lately and I'm liking it a lot. Some very imaginative patterns and a weird but very fun scoring system.

You should really give Raizing games a try. I used to avoid them due to rank, suicides and all, but once I sat down to try to learn them I found they really are excellent and extremely deep.

Since you like IN, maybe you'll like the Shikigami series and Skonec's games too.

[Special World]

I would say definitely go for Futari Black Label, but if you don't have a 360 that's really not an option.

Don't shy away from Raizing. They're really not as crazy as people make them sound. I often play without trying to control rank at all and I have a blast. They're fun any way you play them, Garegga and Bakraid especially.

In MAME, check out Dodonpachi, Ketsui, Guwange, Progear, Daioujou, Espgaluda, and Mushihimesama.

You really can't go wrong with Cave. Some of the newer games emulate badly in MAME though, like Futari.

[Obscura]

Forget about those newer games on your backlog for the time being and give R-Type III another try. Don't let such a masterpiece go unfinished!

Holy crap, does that work with the Cyclone unit (the big blue one), or is it original unit only?

If it works with Cyclone, you may have just got me past a boss I've been stuck at for well over a decade! Thanks!

cool name btw...

Sorry for the name theft; it wasn't intentional (I use this name on gaming related forums). I took it from this album

Thematically, I would say Espgaluda II is closer to Futari than any of Cave's other games. You should have plenty of fun as long as you just play it and don't worry about scoring. As for Futari, you should probably play the Black Label version to start with, it's a bit more forgiving. I'm not sure if DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu is emulated or not, but I'd also recommend that. DeathSmiles should be pretty good for you too.

To clarify- I'm not limiting myself to loli shmups (Crimzon Clover certainly wouldn't top my to-play list in that case, haha). I have a Y chromosome, and therefore like spaceships that shoot lasers and blow shit up! It's mostly coincidence that my entry points have been loli shmups.

If you try this one, have in mind that it doesn't play like a Cave or Touhou game. Even though it is bullet hell and you'll definitely be dodging stuff, the focus is put on identifying the main threats and taking them down fast with Dragon Shot, for which you need to be playing close range most of the time. If you try to play reactively trying to avoid most patterns and using Dragon Shot just as another option you'll die very fast, and that could give you a wrong impression of the game (something I see a lot on these forums).

I am totally cool with that- part of the reason I picked Dragon Blaze on that list was to get something that played different than Cave's stuff.

I haven't tried UFO; IN and SA are the only Touhous I've played.

I should add Shikigami to my list; a bunch of my friends played the Mobile Light Force 2 port back when we were in college, and it looked fun.

You really can't go wrong with Cave. Some of the newer games emulate badly in MAME though, like Futari.

Have you tried Slowpoke MAME? http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 35#p738735 - it runs Futari rather well for me.

No one can identify the unknown game from my second post with the stealth bomber second boss? I *think* (but am not certain) it was on a NeoGeo Cab, if that helps.

[Ghegs]

Welcome aboard.

No one can identify the unknown game from my second post with the stealth bomber second boss? I *think* (but am not certain) it was on a NeoGeo Cab, if that helps.

Could be Aero Fighters 2 / Sonic Wings 2 or maybe another game in the series. Look familiar?

And since you like R-Type 3, don't forget to give the original game and part 2 a whirl. Good stuff there.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Holy crap, does that work with the Cyclone unit (the big blue one), or is it original unit only?

If it works with Cyclone, you may have just got me past a boss I've been stuck at for well over a decade! Thanks!

Yes! the trick works with all 3 forces devices. I only demo'd the round force because I am most comfortable with it. You'll need to adjust your timing and possibly weaponry, naturally. No need to thank me with words, just show your grattitude by making this thread a little less desolate when you're done.

And yes, like Ghegs said, be sure to check out other Irem shooters. Brilliant, yet painfully overlooked library of games.

[Obscura]

Welcome aboard.

No one can identify the unknown game from my second post with the stealth bomber second boss? I *think* (but am not certain) it was on a NeoGeo Cab, if that helps.

Could be Aero Fighters 2 / Sonic Wings 2 or maybe another game in the series. Look familiar?

I think you found it! Thanks!

Yes! the trick works with all 3 forces devices. I only demo'd the round force because I am most comfortable with it. You'll need to adjust your timing and possibly weaponry, naturally. No need to thank me with words, just show your grattitude by making this thread a little less desolate when you're done.

And yes, like Ghegs said, be sure to check out other Irem shooters. Brilliant, yet painfully overlooked company.

None of my runs were on one credit (I only recently learned about the 1CC rule, so whenever I played anything on a console, I just played with whatever continues they gave me), so I'm afraid I don't qualify

[Blackbird]

Crimzon Clover will not be hard to obtain if you want to purchase it. Rancor has more copies lying around than he knows what to do with, last I heard. His website is here: http://www.sk8tokyo.com/shmup/

If lolis don't bother you, you can get Deathsmiles on NewEgg extremely cheaply. The regular edition is usually 10 dollars; the LE with the faceplate is usually 15.

Raiden IV and Raiden Fighters Aces are both great games (not necessarily bullet hell?) that can be had very inexpensively - 20 dollars or less, and you can occasionally find them in your local Gamestop/equivalent.

If you want to spend a little more, import Futari. It's one of my favorite shooting games, and in my opinion, one of the best overall. Newbies will probably be more comfortable with Novice mode, then work up into Original.

[Deca]

Don't let the haters scare you off, try some Raizing stuff. Battle Bakraid Normal course 1cc is totally possible without any rank control at all, as is Batrider. Not to say that minimal rank control won't make it easier, but it doesn't become imperative in 5 stages.

I would say check out Dodonpachi, Batrider, Strikers 2, and Mars Matrix and decide what style you enjoy the most. And yeah you can't go wrong with Futari, it's easily the best value purchase you can make in the world of shooters.

[Kollision]

I don't have anything to add to all previous suggestions except saying that IMO Futari is overrated.

[Gus]

I don't have anything to add to all previous suggestions except saying that IMO Futari is overrated.

why

[Rex Cavalier]

Also... when you feel like going crazy with a shmup, go play HELLSINKER...

That and also Radio Zonde

Also check out Crimzon Clover, Gwangedash and Zen-Ichi

and saw someone mention Futari as "Touhou done right"

Seihou is "touhou done right", def. check it out

[Kollision]

I don't have anything to add to all previous suggestions except saying that IMO Futari is overrated.

why

Contrary to the majority of people here I find the first Mushi to be the superior game.
I think Futari's slowdown exaggerates at times. The music is a rehash of the first one. It's not as much fun.

But that's just me.
To the OP, the obvious "choice" would be to play both games, which he will eventually anyway.

[dunpeal2064]

Weird, I think both soundtracks are great, and not all that similar. Plus, Cave rehashes things, its like a staple for them.

I do enjoy the first game, but I think what sets Futari apart for me is it actually having an in-depth Intuitive scoring system, across all modes. I would have never guessed how to score in the original, at least with all that auto-fire business.

Like you said though, the OP should try both and decide for himself. I have talked to a few people that, like you, much prefer the first game. Then again, a LOT of people adore Futari, myself included.

Theres no question that both are quality titles.

[Nasirosuchus]

These games are perfect for beginners:

Perfect Cherry Blossom
The Embodiment of Scarlet Devil
Cho Ren Sha 68K
Blue Wish Resurrection Plus
Gokujo Parodius
Mushihime-sama Futari Black Label
Metal Slug

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Ah my bad about Espgaluda 2, yeah it really isnt an entry level shmup (apart from that fun arrange mode), I was stating it because its been out awhile now and he would be better off buying it now if he wants a cheap new copy, rather pay extra when it goes out of print

BTW what do you guys think to Radient silvergun as a recommendation? I know its a long shmup (I havnt played any of the stages in the later half of the game, so ive no idea how difficult it get in the end) but im finding its short stages and easy to understand score system make it enjoyable for semi casual pratice.