Gadaffi on parade

[Skykid]

I was just thinking, in relation to the Osama Bin Laden deadthread, that's it's funny how the Libyan rebels, militarily inferior to the US in every possible way, overthrew and located a hidden Gadaffi within 6 months; and, odder still, managed to broadcast video footage globally that made it to the 6 o'clock news the same evening showing the guy's bullet ridden, blood drenched body.

The corpse has already been witnessed firsthand by Reuters, and as part of their article:

"NTC official Ali Tarhouni, who is oil minister in the interim government, said a decision had not yet been taken.

"I told them to keep it in the freezer for a few days... to make sure that everybody knows he is dead," he told Reuters.

Asked about the burial arrangements, including where he would be buried, he said: "There is no decision yet." "

Hmm, "make sure everyone knows he's dead". Ain't that a radically sensible idea?

Regardless, the guy's mug is on every newspaper front page today. No hints of fakery, forgery and compositing of images that surfaced with OBL.

Reports also suggest, as with OBL, that the body will be buried within 24 hours in accordance to his Muslim rights - which makes a little more sense considering it's the Muslims that captured him. Just nice of them to actually show a little footage of the conquest before chucking him in the sea.

Before sparking an outrageous 'conspiracy theory' retaliation, I'm only highlighting the obvious differences between the publicity and more importantly, the comparative speed and will to provide proof to joe public.

[antron]

OBL is probably in a cell. who cares? what possible difference does it make to you?

and the differences between what happened in Libya and Pakistan/Afghanistan cannot fit in the allowed number of characters.

[Skykid]

OBL is probably in a cell. who cares? what possible difference does it make to you?

I don't like being lied to.

and the differences between what happened in Libya and Pakistan/Afghanistan cannot fit in the allowed number of characters

I think explaining the ridiculousness of believing OBL is in a cell wouldn't fit the allowed number of characters.

Regarding similarities between the two cases:

Middle Eastern tyrants: check
Wanted men: check
Muslim: check
Wreaked suffering on population/s who want their heads: check
Pursued vigorously with no effort spared: check
Proof shown to the world that they've been killed at the hands of their pursuers: che... wait.

[antron]

Pursued vigorously with no effort spared: check

here is where you are completely wrong, and the reason why we have such different outcomes. the country OBL was in hid him, and had no popular armed uprising against it.

and about being lied to, get over it. if you want to have actual knowledge of such things you should be doing more with your life than posting here.

[Skykid]

Pursued vigorously with no effort spared: check

here is where you are completely wrong, and the reason why we have such different outcomes. the country OBL was in hid him, and had no popular armed uprising against it.

and about being lied to, get over it. if you want to have actual knowledge of such things you should be doing more with your life than posting here.

I'm doing plenty with my life other than posting here.

Boy this is a touchy subject for you isn't it? Why not just be the first US citizen on the board to have a little humility and address the possibility head on that there's a good chance you've been made a fool of by your elected government, and not for the first time. It's no skin off your nose is it: you'd be a victim, not a perpetrator.

Your suggestion that Pakistan 'hid' OBL is unproven speculation that, given the circumstances, is nigh on slanderous.

Lets look at this from an entirely different perspective for the sake of argument ok:

If indeed OBL was killed in Pakistan and all events took place exactly as reported, that would make the US government and military the worlds most inept, cack-handed force on the face of the earth. A total bull in a china shop eradicating poverty stricken populations without rhyme or reason for years on end. It takes them ten years to locate a single man and then lose him at sea before remembering to take a photo to show people the job is done.

Is Sgt Bilko at the helm? This is comedy gold. It's a slapstick sitcom writers dream, a completely farcical, totally useless superpower who can't tie a piece of string together but knows how to carpet bomb thousands of civilians.

Now, for me, that's the least likely possibility of all. On the contrary, I think the US forces are superior to most (if not all) on Earth. And that can only lead to one conclusion: baloney.

If I was one of those guys who lost his job in Pizza Hut because they partied for three days and couldn't pay their rent after blowing all their cash on booze, I'd be demanding some compensation for the inconvenience.

The Gadaffi execution really just serves to highlight the ludicrousness of these supposed happenings. That's all I wanted to outline, I'm not trying to entice angry patriots to respond with petty personal jibes.

[antron]

our forces are not in Pakistan, never were. their people and government do not like us, they only like our handouts.

they didn't lose OBL, they have pictures (or him). they just don't care what you or I think. it's not a jab, it's a fact. you are not important enough. being lied to by people more powerful than you is part of life. it started with your parents, it will end with your kids, right now it's the government's turn.

I am only posting here because the fact the Gadaffi got caught is a really bad argument to say that OBL didn't, or was a US spy, or that we are plugged into a Matrix, or whatever.

[Skykid]

our forces are not in Pakistan, never were. their people and government do not like us, they only like our handouts.

The government of Pakistan not liking the US is hardly a closet case. They'd probably like you even less if they thought you manufactured a raid on their soil resulting in making them look as though they had been protecting a wanted enemy... for ten years.

they didn't lose OBL. they have pictures (or him).

That's nice. In Obama's photo album alongside his holiday snaps in Hawaii I'd wager. Ooh, what I would do for just a peek.

they just don't care what you or I think. it's not a jab, it's a fact. you are not important enough.

On that we're completely agreed.

[antron]

The government of Pakistan not liking the US is hardly a closet case. They'd probably like you even less if they thought you manufactured a raid on their soil resulting in making them look as though they had been protecting a wanted enemy... for ten years.

they DO hate us even more for that.

That's nice. In Obama's photo album alongside his holiday snaps in Hawaii I'd wager. Ooh, what I would do for just a peek.

I think you will see it some day. Just like those photos of JFK's head blown open.

[Barrakketh]

They'd probably like you even less if they thought you manufactured a raid on their soil resulting in making them look as though they had been protecting a wanted enemy... for ten years.

The compound he lived in wasn't even ten years old.

[GaijinPunch]

Apples & Oranges.

As for being lied to... well... you're not American. Nobody was ever really talking to you. You just overheard the announcement.

[Drum]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha skykid

[Skykid]

Apples & Oranges.

As for being lied to... well... you're not American. Nobody was ever really talking to you. You just overheard the announcement.

We 'overheard' the Iraq war too. A regular cause and effect when an economic superpower makes waves.
Although the level of skepticism rises considerably outside of the US, it still gnaws that the deal behind a decade worth of political war and bloodshed is distortion.

But fuck all that. It pisses me off most when I see people buying bullshit like it's on special (Drum, by the sound of things. But then he talks plenty bullshit too, so the balance is sound.)

At least the Libyan people got a corpse, and quick. Now I'm just waiting for the home videos of Gadaffi watching Will & Grace.

[louisg]

I think you will see it some day. Just like those photos of JFK's head blown open.

Don't be silly. Everyone knows he's still alive, living in Denver with OBL and Kurt Cobain.

[Drum]

Apples & Oranges.

As for being lied to... well... you're not American. Nobody was ever really talking to you. You just overheard the announcement.

We 'overheard' the Iraq war too. A regular cause and effect when an economic superpower makes waves.
Although the level of skepticism rises considerably outside of the US, it still gnaws that the deal behind a decade worth of political war and bloodshed is distortion.

But fuck all that. It pisses me off most when I see people buying bullshit like it's on special (Drum, by the sound of things. But then he talks plenty bullshit too, so the balance is sound.)

At least the Libyan people got a corpse, and quick. Now I'm just waiting for the home videos of Gadaffi watching Will & Grace.

How do you feel about 9/11 and the moon landings?

[Skykid]

How do you feel about 9/11 and the moon landings?

Been there, done that. Need shmups.org history lesson before tinfoil hat argument can commence.

Also need Battle Garegga lesson, but that's another thread.

[Drum]

9/11 is Battle Garegga done right.

[Moniker]

So who exactly benefits from a bin Laden death hoax? If he's alive and at large, he and his followers would reveal it. If he died awhile ago, then somebody would've taken credit awhile ago. If he's alive and in custody, well, that'd be a massive conspiracy indeed, and pointless.

It has been said that a conspiracy theories arise from an individual's failure to rationally interpret the world around him/her. Occam's Razor says he's dead, plain and simple.

If you're bent because of the differences b/w Qaddafi & bin Laden, note that two very different cultures and two very different political situations were responsible for each death. If I were to find out that there were in fact no pics of dead bin Laden, I'd be pissed, but for now I'm content that there would be adverse foreign-relations consequences for revealing them.

...wow I just spent 5 minutes of my life arguing pure bullshit. O well...

[BPzeBanshee]

I'm with you on the publicity differences there, Skykid. I guess this is what happens when it's the rebels leading and world powers not feeling like helping instead of world powers leading and rebels not feeling like helping.

Haters gonna hate though.

[Moniker]

Rebels *should* lead and world powers *should* refrain from helping. Post Cold-war, only time world powers should get involved is in the case of humanitarian crisis or a direct threat to the lives of said world power's citizens. Of course, there's plenty of lee-way in those two conditions.

Edit: or maybe that's what you're saying. I dunno.

[Skykid]

I'm with you on the publicity differences there, Skykid. I guess this is what happens when it's the rebels leading and world powers not feeling like helping instead of world powers leading and rebels not feeling like helping.

That's because you're the first non-US resident to post a reply in this thread.

...wow I just spent 5 minutes of my life arguing pure bullshit. O well...

Not at all, join the debate.

You asked: "So who exactly benefits from a bin Laden death hoax?"

You do friend. You benefit by having a burning passion to see him brought to justice that helps you to condone warfare in the name of crushing terrorism. Incensed by the idea that revenge can be wrought by having a 9/11 perpetrator figurehead dangled in front of your nose as an effigy of hate, you'll back your government and its decisions until they have that man.
Even if it takes 10 years and the invasions of several countries to do it.

As I said the moment OBL was confirmed in an invisible body bag, it was a trigger point for Obama to begin pulling troops out of the middle east. Regular as clockwork, that's exactly what happened, re-enforced by today's announcement that he's still on course to have everyone home for Christmas.
It's also a political flashpoint for his upcoming re-election.

Whether they killed anyone at all is completely beside the point: its the benefit the announcement makes that counts.
That's the reason you heard, but didn't see.

And any notion that OBL is alive in a cell is retarded, that dude has been dead a long time. No one wants him popping up any more to defend himself. That throws a spanner in the works.

The point of this thread is look at the difference in publicity between Gadaffi's death and OBL's. It's as plain as the nose on your face, especially considering OBL's Top Trump points for infamy and wantedness were about a billion times higher than Gdaff's.

[BPzeBanshee]

Rebels *should* lead and world powers *should* refrain from helping. Post Cold-war, only time world powers should get involved is in the case of humanitarian crisis or a direct threat to the lives of said world power's citizens. Of course, there's plenty of lee-way in those two conditions.

Edit: or maybe that's what you're saying. I dunno.

That is almost exactly what I'm saying. I think world powers should be the ones that can step in when needed/asked and provide support where necessary, ESPECIALLY for humanitarian crisis issues or if North Korea decides to get a nuke off the ground, but beyond that leave internal problems in countries to the countries themselves until asked instead of just rolling in for the oil. The problem is, there's a difference between how things *should* be and how it *is* right now, which sucks for those who are in NK who want to get out, or those wanting to.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it the rebels in this case have had a fair bit of help from other countries which was upon request - but it seemed to take a while and frankly the issue of Ghadafi himself has been there for decades while the world powers have sat there and not even so much as flittered an eyebrow, until recently with the uprisings that's been happening there. That bullshit shouldn't happen - if the people say "we want this guy out cause he's not following the rules" and the guy's not getting out, the people should be able to expect help from the world powers upon request instead of 'oh you know we wouldnt want to put strain on our relationship with your evil murdering dictator so we'll leave you to it'. That's the impression that I get when I see people like Obama being careful with his words and talking and not doing when the uprising actually started and the asking for support was obvious.

I'm with you on the publicity differences there, Skykid. I guess this is what happens when it's the rebels leading and world powers not feeling like helping instead of world powers leading and rebels not feeling like helping.

That's because you're the first non-US resident to post a reply in this thread.

Holy shit, I didn't even notice.

I wouldn't be surprised if the media here was bullshitting me to give me the view that I had though. I was talking with Kaiser on MSN when it got announced on the news at his place in Poland, but search my channels and there was nothing there at all. Fair enough for delay times around the world, but then the media's got pictures of him dead everywhere while in the case of Osama there was just photos of his face from 15 years ago, which really did not help the message they were trying to send.

[Skykid]

Fair enough for delay times around the world, but then the media's got pictures of him dead everywhere while in the case of Osama there was just photos of his face from 15 years ago, which really did not help the message they were trying to send.

No no no, there were videos of him enjoying an episode of Frasier, remember? You could only sort of see him from behind, and it was kind of weird that anyone would film themselves watching entertainment television - but hell, how much more proof do you need!

[Pharos]

9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!!1111!!1

[antron]

Rebels *should* lead and world powers *should* refrain from helping.

He would have crushed them were it not for the UN security council. Russia and China voted with their silence.

That, for better or for worse, is a new world order.

[Skykid]

9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!!1111!!1

Oh dear.

[neorichieb1971]

America's Imperialism has cost itself $54trillion+. I know what the idea is, to make as many democracies as possible so that you can infiltrate with your brands rather than your military. But when is all said and done Skykid has a point, that not very well funded groups done a job right. America on the other hand is all cloaks and daggers. Almost everything the USA does has a slight bad smell to it.

Im summary, America leaves alot to the imagination since 1947.

[Skykid]

Lolz, even the Muslim's didn't bury Gadaffi in accordance to his Muslim rights! The guy's on display in the freezer for folks to come and make sure they got the right man:

http://www.skynews.com.au/world/article ... 76471&vId=

That makes Obama a very conscientious Muslim. What a nice guy, he was probably like, "Now now guys, no time for photos, videos or general footage. We have these videotapes of him watching TV, that's good enough. Put your mobile phones away please, we need to bury this guy quick, and, :looks at watch: we need to get it done within ohhh, 23 hours from now. Vamoose!"

Im summary, America leaves alot to the imagination since 1947.

Precisely. And although I like stoking the fire, it baffles me that the resident population is freely accepting of events so obviously manipulated and obscured.

I suppose that's what patriotism is all about.

[GaijinPunch]

That's because you're the first non-US resident to post a reply in this thread.

I'm not a US resident.

[Skykid]

That's because you're the first non-US resident to post a reply in this thread.

I'm not a US resident.

Sort yourself out then.

[antron]

Gadaffi can't be used to inspire donations and support for assholes who want to kill you. He is seen as a dog by almost everyone.

This isn't case with OBL. The only downside to discreetly getting rid of him is that people already crying conspiracy would cry it more. No big loss at all. I recall a few truther-esque postes in the truther thread from current company.