Racketboy "Defining Shmups" Article - IT'S UP!

[BulletMagnet]

It's Up!

[dunpeal2064]

I know they don't have a single series, but I think Toaplan deserves a mention.

Always love those RB articles

[Drake]

touhou is fucking stupid why would you even put that on there

[BulletMagnet]

I know they don't have a single series, but I think Toaplan deserves a mention.

Yeah, I mulled over a way to get them in there, but I'll probably end up relegating them to a Batsugun mention in the DonPachi segment unless someone comes up with a better way of doing it. I dunno, is there any single "iconic" shmup or series they produced otherwise, at least on the level of the other prospective entries on the list?

touhou is fucking stupid why would you even put that on there

Because no other series has done as much to further the cause of TOO EASY within the genre.

[Erppo]

touhou is fucking stupid why would you even put that on there

Because no other series has done as much to further the cause of TOO EASY within the genre.

I thought they were harder.

[Sapz]

touhou is fucking stupid why would you even put that on there

Nice.

On topic, I'd enjoy seeing something about the Strikers 45 series, if only because I feel Psikyo is a pretty significant 'modern' developer. To me, their games feel like the natural evolution of the old-school vert, much moreso than games by Cave or Raizing, for instance. There's a nice simplicity to them even in more difficult scoring and the loops that you don't really see with other relatively recent shooters. At the very least, they're games you can easily pick up and play and have a good idea of how things work and how to do well within a minute or two, unlike anything with complex chaining or invisible rank management or anything like that.

[jepjepjep]

I know they don't have a single series, but I think Toaplan deserves a mention.

Yeah, I mulled over a way to get them in there, but I'll probably end up relegating them to a Batsugun mention in the DonPachi segment unless someone comes up with a better way of doing it. I dunno, is there any single "iconic" shmup or series they produced otherwise, at least on the level of the other prospective entries on the list?

+Tatsujin/Truxton
It's the epitome of old school shmup gameplay.

[Estebang]

Sadly, Touhou has been incredibly influential on doujin game development.

[Randorama]

I know they don't have a single series, but I think Toaplan deserves a mention.

Yeah, I mulled over a way to get them in there, but I'll probably end up relegating them to a Batsugun mention in the DonPachi segment unless someone comes up with a better way of doing it. I dunno, is there any single "iconic" shmup or series they produced otherwise, at least on the level of the other prospective entries on the list?

Flying Shark and Tatsujin come to mind. They were their most widespread releases. Back in the '80s, every single hole with a cab had either game, and virtually everyone played them at some point or another.

[Estebang]

On topic, I'd enjoy seeing something about the Strikers 45 series, if only because I feel Psikyo is a pretty significant 'modern' developer. To me, their games feel like the natural evolution of the old-school vert, much moreso than games by Cave or Raizing, for instance. There's a nice simplicity to them even in more difficult scoring and the loops that you don't really see with other relatively recent shooters. At the very least, they're games you can easily pick up and play and have a good idea of how things work and how to do well within a minute or two, unlike anything with complex chaining or invisible rank management or anything like that.

Worth mentioning that Psikyo themselves described the original Strikers as "a simple yet complex game for people of any age...for everybody from adults and students to game freaks" on the Saturn box art.

[azinth]

The Gigawing series maybe? The original is a pretty early example of shmups based on bullet cancelling/reflecting.

If it's about 'big names,' the Strikers series should be included imo. Even if Psikyo didn't break new ground with anything in particular, they were still one of the most prolific shmup devs, and the Strikers games are probably their most iconic series.

[Kollision]

Before Strikers 1945 there was Sonic Wings, the forefather of all things Psikyo.

[Estebang]

Yeah, I think we can put most of Shin Nakamura's shmups under the same header.

[Observer]

You can hate it all you want but, sadly, Touhou brought me here. Courtesy of "that one review of Imperishable Night by bloodflowers" that made me get into the bullet hell genre after reviving a bunch of old classics on my PSX (R-Type Delta/Einhänder and a couple more).

Anyway, rather than Touhou the series, I think the two ones that set the mark were Imperishable Night and Perfect Cherry Blossom. I think ZUN never quite scratched those levels of greatness again...

I would add Tyrian and Raptor due to their western influence. You can hate them all you want as well but I think they are two games that are still remembered or name-dropped by most people.

And I would include Xevious with the Layer Section series after it. Both popularised the use of reticles and distinguishing between air/ground/below/above layers. And Layer Section was the first (at least to me) to properly immortalise the sensation of launching awesome lock-on guided laser missiles barrages.

Agreed on Darius as it defined two common trends: the over the top boss warnings and the possibility to clearly select different stages/paths, right? Plus Darius Gaiden and G-Darius freaking rock.

Can't think of any more "defining" shmups... Damn.

[chempop]

I think your primary list is mostly spot on. Is Twin-bee the game that pioneered cute-em-ups? Did thunderforce somewhat re-invent horis with its more fast paced approach?

I'd include a twin-stick title - Robotron!

[Hagane]

If you are talking about popularity, then yeah the Strikers series definitely need to be in. As for defining games that came after it, I think Gunbird 1 is more important than those (it cements / adds a lot of Psikyo basics), but Strikers is the most recognized name.

Gigawing also is very influential for its reflect mechanic. Maybe Batsugun too since it was a predecessor to bullet hell games?

[shadowbringer]

I'd say (with my limited knowledge) that GigaWing also deserves credit for helping create the bullet-exploiting trend; we may need examples for popular arena shooters, rail shooters (Panzer Dragoon? I'm not familiar enough with the genre) or 3d shmups (Star Fox comes to mind, but I've played Game Boy's X, which was kind of an "spiritual prequel" :p -- possibly worth a mention, even though X is mission-oriented. Haven't played Star Fox, I admit.);

maybe the Psyvariar/Shikigami no Shiro series should be mentioned for emphasizing grazing?

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Agreed on Darius as it defined two common trends: the over the top boss warnings and the possibility to clearly select different stages/paths, right? Plus Darius Gaiden and G-Darius freaking rock.

How about that powerup meter? you know, those little bars up top that prevent your upgrades from falling back too far for you to pull through after dying? Oh, and let's not forget about that terrain-piercing wave shot so you don't always have to act ahead of time to dispatch the more cunning enemies. Those features were totally not innovative in the slightest, no way.

[EllertMichael]

Aleste (series)

Yes!
Compile > Touhou

Maybe Batsugun too since it was a predecessor to bullet hell games?

I think Batsugun absolutely deserves a mention.

[Zengeku3]

Anyway, rather than Touhou the series, I think the two ones that set the mark were Imperishable Night and Perfect Cherry Blossom. I think ZUN never quite scratched those levels of greatness again...

If anything, include the whole series. There is no sense in only including two games as everyone who have played and enjoyed that series probably have individual ideas about which are the most representative ones. I think that most of the games released AFTER Imperishable Night have greater levels of quality than anything before it. Others will think otherwise so just include the entire series.

[Sizone]

I would add Tyrian and Raptor due to their western influence. You can hate them all you want as well but I think they are two games that are still remembered or name-dropped by most people.

And I would include Xevious with the Layer Section series after it. Both popularised the use of reticles and distinguishing between air/ground/below/above layers. And Layer Section was the first (at least to me) to properly immortalise the sensation of launching awesome lock-on guided laser missiles barrages.

Agreed on Darius as it defined two common trends: the over the top boss warnings and the possibility to clearly select different stages/paths, right? Plus Darius Gaiden and G-Darius freaking rock.

Can't think of any more "defining" shmups... Damn.

Seconding this with regards to Darius and Raystorm as it's basically what I was coming to this thread to post. The Darius games pretty much all suck, but their influence when it comes to massive bosses is really hard to discredit. With Raystorm, they too might not have been the best games, but something like half of all the doujin games I've played have a lock-on mechanism ripped straight from them, so they've been very influential.

The mention of Raptor and Tyrian (and Stargunner, to a lesser degree) kind of brings home the fact that what strikes me as a defining characteristic is that a game has a mechanism or feature that was unique, not widely copied, or has come and gone in terms of fashion. Pretty much everything mentioned so far has this. Gigawing had a shield/cancel thing, bullet canceling is still widely copied but the shield/absorb thing seems pretty uncommon. Raptor/Tyrian had the shop thing which seems to have totally died out except with Jets 'n' Guns. The dual level shooting and bombing mechanism of Xevious was widely copied for a while, then I guess it sort of evolved into the Raystorm lockon system before totally dying out. Ikaruga's polarity thing is still pretty unique outside of doujin games and, apparently, XBLA platformers. Battle Bakraid probably deserves mention for it's fast, non-pink-and-glowy projectiles. Zanac deserves a nod for its adaptive difficulty, something that seems to be coming back into vogue and for its massive popularity during the NES era. Likewise, Star Soldier probably deserves some recognition.

Ummm.... starting to ramble a bit. Let me just close by saying that the future is Revolver360.

[BulletMagnet]

Great to see such a strong response: let me try to address the major points brought up so far.

I thought they were harder.

The debate continues!

+Tatsujin/Truxton
It's the epitome of old school shmup gameplay.

This was the first Toaplan "series" I thought to possibly use to represent them, but then there's also Flying/Fire Shark, as Rando brings up...and the main thing that's still bothering me is, can either of them really stand up next to the other entries on the list in terms of their "iconic" nature within the genre?

The Gigawing series maybe? The original is a pretty early example of shmups based on bullet cancelling/reflecting.

I thought of putting that one in, if only for all the "omg this game is impossible" chatter it spawned during the Dreamcast era, but again, I'm not sure it quite qualifies as an "icon".

Even if Psikyo didn't break new ground with anything in particular, they were still one of the most prolific shmup devs, and the Strikers games are probably their most iconic series.

I was somewhat torn between naming Strikers and Gunbird as "THE" Psikyo series, but most people here seem to be in favor of the former, so I'll probably end up going with that, and make a reference to Sonic Wings and some of its other cousins someplace in there.

I would add Tyrian and Raptor due to their western influence.

Here's another segment I briefly thought about, but lack the personal experience with to put forward myself: those more familiar with the Euroshmup and PC shooter scenes will have to sort this one out.

And I would include Xevious with the Layer Section series after it.

That's probably not a bad idea - Xevious is the more "defining" game overall of the two, but Layer Section was a worthy refinement.

Is Twin-bee the game that pioneered cute-em-ups?

That was the basic thought process, yes; I couldn't think of another that would be more appropriate for the designation, anyways.

Did thunderforce somewhat re-invent horis with its more fast paced approach?

That's a part of it, though more than that I figure that the Thunder Force games are about as close to a "definitive" 16-bit console shooter series as you can get...anyone got something with which to dispute that?

I'd include a twin-stick title - Robotron!

we may need examples for popular arena shooters, rail shooters (Panzer Dragoon? I'm not familiar enough with the genre) or 3d shmups (Star Fox comes to mind, but I've played Game Boy's X, which was kind of an "spiritual prequel" :p -- possibly worth a mention, even though X is mission-oriented.

These are getting into borderliner territory, so for this article I'll probably have to leave them out.

maybe the Psyvariar/Shikigami no Shiro series should be mentioned for emphasizing grazing?

That's a possibility (I'd lean towards Psyvariar, myself, especially since it's also a notable "shooter with less emphasis on the shooting part"), but I'll need more input from the community on this...

How about that powerup meter? you know, those little bars up top that prevent your upgrades from falling back too far for you to pull through after dying? Oh, and let's not forget about that terrain-piercing wave shot so you don't always have to act ahead of time to dispatch the more cunning enemies.

Did Darius really "pioneer" these, though? Someone with a better knowledge of genre history of that time period will have to confirm that for me...

If anything, include the whole series.

That's probably what I'm going to end up doing for almost every entry here, if only for the sake of both simplicity and completeness.

Zanac deserves a nod for its adaptive difficulty, something that seems to be coming back into vogue and for its massive popularity during the NES era.

It was a toss-up for me between this and Aleste to represent Compile, since the former is more prolific but the latter was more innovative...any additional thoughts from you guys?

Hopefully that covers most of the major stuff up to this point: keep up the good work!

[Annoyboy]

I would mention Parodius alongside Twinbee, since they cross over in a number of ways. I think you've already named all of the classics in the opening post, though. You might want to mention Mushihimesama Futari as an example of a more recent shmup that doesn't have any obvious flaws.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

I would add Tyrian and Raptor due to their western influence.

Here's another segment I briefly thought about, but lack the personal experience with to put forward myself: those more familiar with the Euroshmup and PC shooter scenes will have to sort this one out.

I have no idea why Tyrian would be any where near this list. Xenon II executed the whole shop/bolt on weapons thing much earlier - and it probably copied that off some capcom jetpack thing.

I nominate Xenon II as the 'definitive' euroshmup - with Tyrian and D-Hero as derivatives.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm pretty sure Sonic Wings/Aero Fighters 2 is a better known Neo Geo shmup than Twinkle Star Sprites. Since the latter isn't really influential (which is a shame of course), I don't get why it's there. Not saying SW2 should be there instead; just calling the inclusion of TSS into question.
Psyvariar, at least MAYBE. The first shmup about touching bullets I can put my finger on, and as such possibly more influential than Ikaruga. Would be the first post-shmup too (a shmup-like game that is not about shooting anymore), unless Vasara predates it.
I'm also sure that saucy AI of Toaplan and Seibu shmups is the Galaga's heritage. Namco pioneered intricate enemy behaviour patterns in their games, and Galaga is as iconic as they get.

[RNGmaster]

I would mention Parodius alongside Twinbee, since they cross over in a number of ways. I think you've already named all of the classics in the opening post, though. You might want to mention Mushihimesama Futari as an example of a more recent shmup that doesn't have any obvious flaws.

But it's the hardest video game ever. That's certainly a flaw.

/sarcasm

[chempop]

No way would I include: Shiki or Psyvariar - grazing was done before them and it's such a small factor to begin with.

Gigawing is tough to say, not only did it have the reflect (which again I think is fairly unsubstantial in the grand scheme of things), but it did have curtains of medals in ways which I don't think were seen prior. Still, putting it next to R-type, Gradius, Donpachi etc is kinda a joke, wouldn't you say?

Xevious is a must, wasn't it the first scrolling shmup, not to mention the lock on system that tops of other titles incorporate.

Which early Toaplan and Compile games to have is a difficult choice, I'm not qualified to say for those devs.

Has Capcoms 1941/2 been mentioned, It is certainy the war based shmup. I'm actually not sure with of the 194X games was first, bit I think one should have spot on the list.

[Bee Cool]

What did ikaruga bring to the table? Polarity is more rare than bullet grazing in shmups, and I know Dimahoo did it before Ikaruga. I also think it would be smart to include a modern shmup like Futari or Galuda 2 as an example of where the genre is headed.

[RNGmaster]

Gigawing is tough to say, not only did it have the reflect (which again I think is fairly unsubstantial in the grand scheme of things), but it did have curtains of medals in ways which I don't think were seen prior. Still, putting it next to R-type, Gradius, Donpachi etc is kinda a joke, wouldn't you say?

After Giga Wing's release, long scores kind of became a trend. That sounds pretty influential to me. Just sayin'.

[Paradigm]

Xevious and possibly Darius are the only two I'd add from the maybe list. The Strikers games are good, but adding them in just seems like an excuse to include Psikyo, ditto Aleste/Compile, you might as well be adding Milestone/Radirgy. The main list looks good to me as it is, don't spread it too thin.