Are the horror stories about Japanese game companies true?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

After recently listening to Warning a huge Podcast is approaching and the hosts were talking about the inner workings of Capcom (ie none of the top execs are gamers, a fact that Capcom seems to be very proud of, and how hard it is for new projects to be green lighted, including been initially against SSFIV, Dead Rising & Monster Hunter).

Ive also read other articles which basically paint an picture that the Japanese gaming industry have all just gotten off the banana boat. Ie green lighting projects on the basis that the design document has a catchy title that some haiku or some other horseshit. Plus the insane company culture in Japan.

Since there is a number of members here with connections to the industry or atleast are better informed than me, im curious if any of you wouldnt mind sharing any stories you might have. Or are the horror stories all overblown?

[Skykid]

Or are the horror stories all overblown?

Judging by the ever declining state of the Japanese games industry and their dwindling proportion of ownership within it, I dare say there probably is some semblance of truth in it.

That said, which large company have you ever worked for where the higher-ups weren't a complete bunch of jack asses who didn't know jack shit about jack shit?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

That said, which large company have you ever worked for where the higher-ups weren't a complete bunch of jack asses who didn't know jack shit about jack shit?

Lol good point.

[rancor]

Or are the horror stories all overblown?

I dont want to come across as an "insider" or anything, but living over here and being into the hobby you can't help but run into people who work in the industry. From what I've heard - yes - everything you imagine is true. Working for a game company is a grind and the upper eschelons are populated by clueless empty suited assholes or people coasting by on their legacies. A great person to hear some first hand stories from would be Shou. Perhaps he'll drop by.

[Moniker]

Judging by the ever declining state of the Japanese games industry and their dwindling proportion of ownership within it...

Is this actually true? I mean, I still play far more Japanese games than western ones. Not just niche titles either. It seems they mainly lost the FPS crowd... which they never really had to begin with. I'll grant the WRPGs are on the rise whereas JRPGs are winding down... although this is mainly squeenix, and the JRPG market on handhelds is still robust. Does the ascendancy of North American game development necessarily mean Japan's is on a steep decline? Are there numbers that I haven't seen or something?

[dcharlie]

http://games.greggman.com/game/

Friends game dev blog, can't access it from work, but assume there's some great commentary on there about working in a Japanese firm before his eventual escape to the US.

[Kasbe]

After recently listening to Warning a huge Podcast is approaching and the hosts were talking about the inner workings of Capcom (ie none of the top execs are gamers, a fact that Capcom seems to be very proud of, and how hard it is for new projects to be green lighted, including been initially against SSFIV, Dead Rising & Monster Hunter).

I knew it! I knew latest Capcom's ideas (not bringing monster hunter 3 for PSP to the west, not translating the new ace attorney games for the west, crappy SSFIVAE PC port, RE:Mercenaries for DS allowing you to start a new game just once, many games releasing part of their retail features as purchasable DLC...) had something to do with top execs having no idea about the market or their products.

[Cuilan]

Is this actually true? I mean, I still play far more Japanese games than western ones. Not just niche titles either. It seems they mainly lost the FPS crowd... which they never really had to begin with. I'll grant the WRPGs are on the rise whereas JRPGs are winding down... although this is mainly squeenix, and the JRPG market on handhelds is still robust. Does the ascendancy of North American game development necessarily mean Japan's is on a steep decline? Are there numbers that I haven't seen or something?

http://www.1up.com/features/japanese-ga ... aking-west

[GaijinPunch]

By saying it's unique to Japanese game companies you're eluding that normal companies aren't a massive fist fuck.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Games industry is big enough now to screw itself up without Japan's help. I almost wish a new video game crash occured and brought a new 8-bit age upon us. Well, not really, but I miss times when giants like Taito, Namco etc. walked the Earth. Games companies nowadays seem fat rather than gigantic.

[maxlords]

By saying it's unique to Japanese game companies you're eluding that normal companies aren't a massive fist fuck.

Working for a massive multinational company myself, I can absolutely and completely attest that this is true. Absolute and utter madness. It's a miracle we get any products at all, seriously.

[Skykid]

By saying it's unique to Japanese game companies you're eluding that normal companies aren't a massive fist fuck.

I basically said that in the second post.

Is this actually true? I mean, I still play far more Japanese games than western ones. Not just niche titles either. It seems they mainly lost the FPS crowd... which they never really had to begin with. I'll grant the WRPGs are on the rise whereas JRPGs are winding down... although this is mainly squeenix, and the JRPG market on handhelds is still robust. Does the ascendancy of North American game development necessarily mean Japan's is on a steep decline? Are there numbers that I haven't seen or something?

I'm not sure about how easy it is to judge its steepness, but Japan's footing within the games industry has been eroding for years. It's not much of a mystery: just walk into your local games store and look at the shelves. Most of the stuff is western produced and nearly all of the triple A (or big, well-known sellers) are also western produced.

The Wii is in decline, the DS has run its course and the 3DS is failing in light of Apple & Windows smartphones: it's pretty much a western dominated market bar the odd fluke, like Bayonetta or SFIV.

This topic has been raised before, so not worth going in-depth unless you want to drag the old one back up, but suffice to say it's a shame that the Japanese industry can't survive domestically or they might stop trying to badly ape stuff they think western gamers like (FPS's) and carry on making stuff they know how to do well.

[rancor]

they might stop trying to badly ape stuff they think western gamers like (FPS's) and carry on making stuff they know how to do well.

Also said in another thread, but aping western culture in the 80s was exactly what made them so cool. Michael Biehn on the cover of the first Metal Gear anyone?



... and thats just one worm from the can.

[Skykid]

they might stop trying to badly ape stuff they think western gamers like (FPS's) and carry on making stuff they know how to do well.

Also said in another thread, but aping western culture in the 80s was exactly what made them so cool. Michael Biehn on the cover of the first Metal Gear anyone?

Of course, but that's a theme, not a game structure (but yes, the 80's offered way cooler material than today's girly nonsense.)

Japanese companies see the broad action based stuff the west is lapping up, like all the FPS's, Uncharted's and sandbox titles, and try to imitate rather than innovate and nearly always fall short of hitting the target. It might be a cultural thing, but it's pretty cringe worthy when JP games try to go 'Hollywood' and fall some way short of pulling it off.

Nintendo imo, are the most successful JP company to consistently make true 3D games and apply their old rules of game design, and they're often successful because of it. And it's clear when other JP companies do the same thing and get it right, just look at Sin & Punishment 2!

[ryu]

obligatory
http://marcade.org/files/vpUzd.jpg

[Skykid]

In short, it's like a communist state.

And ne'er a truer word was spoke.

I understand Inafune's pain. It's crippling to be a passionate creative in a system that stifles passionate creativity.
The industry workings have nearly completely transformed into Hollywood, and that's why so many games are all bluster and no balls.

[Blade]

My friend and I were discussing similar topics regarding this, though not so much about the companies as the industry itself.

He suggested it might be a "GOOD THING" if the game industry suffered another crash like it did in the 80s, if only to make developers less complacent with the trends.

Meanwhile...I posted a somewhat naiive immature topic about this at GameFAQs and got yelled at for either hating all the games mainstreamers love or supposedly being a selfish consumer with no knowledge of the industry.

[Udderdude]

It's not called the games industry for no reason. It's basically just another entertainment money making factory like the movie industry or music industry. That's just how it goes.

[Gus]

Aren't these criticisms about stifling creativity just as valid for western games though? I mean the biggest games coming out are Battlefield 3, Halo 4, and Call of Duty 8. Ditto with those horror stories about work hours if you read up about how EA treats their employees. Also worth pointing out that these big western games aren't selling like hot cakes in Japan either. You make games for your domestic fans. If there's also appeal for fans overseas then that's great but it can't always happen.

[Skykid]

It's not called the games industry for no reason. It's basically just another entertainment money making factory like the movie industry or music industry. That's just how it goes.

Yes, but in terms of creative working and focus, it's undeniably changed its spots. A 5 man team working in a single room to produce something creative changes dramatically when it expands to a splintered 300 strong workforce following a very specific 'winning' formula.

[GaijinPunch]

when it expands to a splintered 300 strong workforce following a very specific 'winning' formula.

[Blade]

This is just my perspective on the whole "Capitalism Business" and "Communism Business"...but...

It seems to me that one is focused more on balancing profits and the other is about increasing profits...yet neither is interested in increasing quality of content so much.

Kindof like...if Japan is in a bubble of profitable security because titles over there sell...meanwhile America is constantly gambling for the next big title based on a built up business formula of what works and what doesn't...yet things in Japan (such as Dating sims) won't work in America due to certain scruples and consumer interest, and games that certain American Developers publish don't work in Japan because of similar scruples and consumer interest...

It just seems to me like everyone needs to be on the same page in terms of budget and overall interest. I'd like to see more titles come over here, and I'd like more titles from here go over there...I'd also like to see the industry on both shores learn from each other's mistakes, but something (or someone) is getting in the way with that...

[Skykid]

This is just my perspective on the whole "Capitalism Business" and "Communism Business"...but...

It seems to me that one is focused more on balancing profits and the other is about increasing profits...yet neither is interested in increasing quality of content so much.

I really don't think that's what Inafune meant regarding it being a communist system. He's talking about it from an internal worker perspective: you work your ass off for nothing except the benefit of the company. You're expected to work hard and receive little to no reward whatsoever but have an allegiance to the company until the end of your days. So in his eyes the company is like the state: a very counter-productive way to run a business that's meant to encourage creativity.

[BPzeBanshee]

when it expands to a splintered 300 strong workforce following a very specific 'winning' formula.

By the way, no one's mentioned anything about Toaplan. I read some stuff here that's quite appalling - apparently if they didn't like a game that was being developed in one corner and tested chaos would erupt and everything would get trashed. Or something like that, food fights etc.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

That Inafune interview is very interesting although i'm unsure as to how much of change he can bring about leaving capcom and working on his own. Either he thinks to highly of himself and hopes to be a catalyst to change or is just sick of Capcom and its ilk and wants out.

One thing I picked up on was that he was calling Capcom out, saying that one of the reasons he left was to make a point that the Megaman games will still be successful even without him. That spelt doom for those games.

[Skykid]

That Inafune interview is very interesting although i'm unsure as to how much of change he can bring about leaving capcom and working on his own. Either he thinks to highly of himself and hopes to be a catalyst to change or is just sick of Capcom and its ilk and wants out.

One thing I picked up on was that he was calling Capcom out, saying that one of the reasons he left was to make a point that the Megaman games will still be successful even without him. That spelt doom for those games.

I really applaud the guy, he's making a point about the system in the only way he can. I don't think it's a move intended to propel him into a premier position as an independent dev, I just think he's genuinely fed up with butting his head against a wall at Capcom and he had zero job satisfaction anymore.

Sometimes walking out is the only way to get people to pay any attention.

Here's his first move anyhow. Looks distinctly Japanese, possibly a little old-school, and it's a freebie unless I'm reading it wrong. Power to the Inafune!

http://www.1up.com/news/keiji-inafune-g ... t-new-game

[greg]

So let me get this straight. Western game companies have never gone out of their way to make games that appeal to Japanese gamers. But when Japanese games have lost their popularity in the Western countries, apparently Japanese companies no longer make games that appeal to Westerners, and suddenly "the Japanese game industry is in decline."

That turdball Final Fantasy 13 seemed to be more popular in the USA than in Japan. They could barely give them away in Japan. Was that game more suited to the Western market?

[gabe]

Thoughts:

• Is anyone surprised that a community largely interested in 2D and otherwise "retro gameplay" is displeased by current industry trends? (A.K.A. - Another day, another Off Topic thread about the pending demise of video games as we know them)
• Re: Inafune/Capcom. I think it's interesting that the industry is reaching a point where single producers carry just as much (if not more) notoriety than the developer/publisher they work for. Yu Suzuki also recently left Sega. I can only wonder if this is part of a larger trend wherein big-name producers part ways with their longtime employers... Would this ultimately be a good thing?

[Skykid]

Thoughts:

• Is anyone surprised that a community largely interested in 2D and otherwise "retro gameplay" is displeased by current industry trends? (A.K.A. - Another day, another Off Topic thread about the pending demise of video games as we know them)

No. 'Retro Gameplay' doesn't exist. You and everyone else just made that up to categorise games that are more than ten years old that are graphically less advanced than games of today. I doubt MVC3 has 'retro gameplay', even though it's basically the same as MVC2. And what stunning leap of technology has fundamentally changed the way a modern cinematic JRPG plays? Last I looked it's just the same old levelling up turned based shit in new clothes with even more convoluted and obtuse systems. That's a gameplay regression isn't it?

If 'retro gameplay' was something only old fogies were hung up on, then smartphone gaming would be dead and buried by now. I've got no allegiance to old and outdated shit, just good shit. When they make good new games, I play them.

[*]Re: Inafune/Capcom. I think it's interesting that the industry is reaching a point where single producers carry just as much (if not more) notoriety than the developer/publisher they work for. Yu Suzuki also recently left Sega. I can only wonder if this is part of a larger trend wherein big-name producers part ways with their longtime employers... Would this ultimately be a good thing?[/list]

Yes. If you flip the first part of your post on its head, then it isn't just guys over 30 hung up on 'old' gaming that have a problem: if Suzuki and Inafune are parting ways are 20 years in service to do their own thing, surely that's an indication that the industry is becoming more restrictive and less creative?

It's in front of our eyes anyway, no point debating it. For every good thing released there's a bucket load of crap alongside it. It's always been that way to some degree, except now the crap sells millions of copies and perpetuates more crap, instead of being ignored and destined to failure.

I wonder if Bubsy the Bobcat had had a multi-million dollar TV, PR and cinema marketing campaign, would it still have been with us today?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I really applaud the guy, he's making a point about the system in the only way he can. I don't think it's a move intended to propel him into a premier position as an independent dev, I just think he's genuinely fed up with butting his head against a wall at Capcom and he had zero job satisfaction anymore.

Sometimes walking out is the only way to get people to pay any attention.

I agree with you and admire the guy for wearing his heart on his sleeve, in fact looking at his next game he is going in the right direction making an game on an open platform, hopefully he'll decide to make a indie PC game some time in the future. Imo PC is the best place for Japan to sell their B rank games to the west since the next generation of handhelds still cant be played on a big screen TV even though the WiiU does kinda merge handheld and console but from the opposite direction.

EDIT

It's in front of our eyes anyway, no point debating it. For every good thing released there's a bucket load of crap alongside it. It's always been that way to some degree, except now the crap sells millions of copies and perpetuates more crap, instead of being ignored and destined to failure.

(This point has come up on other websites over the past couple of days and my comments seemed to fall on death ears, hopefully Ill have better luck here.)

Imo the biggest difference between now and back then, is that even shit games are of a much higher standard these days, so its harder for gamers to separate the wheat from the chaff, infact ild go so far as to say that most gamers dont know the difference between games that are simply mediocre, good or great and judge games on its IP, graphics or what features it has tacked on, rather than gameplay issues.

It also doesnt help that gamers dont like to take risks on which titles they choose to fork out £40 for, especially if they are spending even more time and money on their COD or ME's DLC. Its a shame that consoles arent like PCs in that its an open platform where devs have mopre freedom to set their own prices. Steam is a much better way to price games imo. They are full price when they first release, but over time the price drops with steam sales, allowing gamers to pay what they want for the games, which makes them more likely to buy games they normally wouldnt play. This breeds innovation in the devs since they know the market will be more open minded.

That said I have no problem forking out £50 for a CAVE shooter and often call others tight bastards when they penny pinch. I suppose im full of contradictions