Give me direction.

Naglfar · Post by **Naglfar** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:32 am

I have questions. I'd like to know which games are considered the best to get into the world of shmups proper, and the options I have for actually playing them, like what equipment I should be thinking of getting. Any other helpful hints would be appreciated too.

Siren2011 · Post by **Siren2011** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:49 am

If you're going for convenience, then I'd say start with the CAVE PS2 titles, as they cost much less than PCBs and cabs/superguns; and let's face it, if you're posting here then chances are you have one already. Immediately pick up the Espgaluda and Daioujou ports. As for Mushi and Ibara, don't even bother with the ports. They both look like ass, and the PCB versions of them are supposedly much better looking.

If you're looking to get your feet wet quickly, then I suggest you download the latest version of MAME, called MAMEUI32. Then download roms for ESPrade, Guwange, Dodonpachi, and Cyvern. Those are each a perfect introduction into the world of shmups, and each should keep you occupied for years.

Also, look into getting a Japanese 360. The console has Ketsui, Espgaluda 2 and Akai Katana, etc.

If you're thinking in terms of Dreamcast, then I highly recommend Psyvariar 2, although there is a PS2 version with souped up graphics. Border Down is tight, too.

For Saturn, I'd say stay clear of a game called Battle Garegga for a while; at least until you've mastered the games on that MAME list I gave you. But definitely try out Soukyugurentai. I promise the game is well worth your while.

And one more thing: you will need a good joystick, as well as nerves of steel (if you don't have 'em now, then don't fret; they'll most likely develop over time and prolonged exposure to danmakus.) Happy gaming!

Bee Cool · Post by **Bee Cool** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:00 am

He would need to have a Japanese PS2 for those games as well, so if you have to import a console I would go with a J360 as the current generation of games are coming out currently. Definitely go with MAME first though that will give you the largest library of STGs, also DOJ and Galuda are both emulated perfectly on MAME so you won't be missing out if you don't have or want to import a JPS2.

chempop · Post by **chempop** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:15 am

Siren2011 wrote...

DOJ and Galuda 2

This some sort of sick joke? Those are for expert players.

Sega Saturn is a great console for shmups, there are dozens of good titles but you will need a Pro Action Replay 4in1 Cart to play Japanese imports. If you aren't going to use a joystick the Saturn Control Pad is excellent.

For games the Saturn has a wide variety. Don't listen to folks who only recommend modern Cave titles, try a variety and see what you gravitate towards. I'd start with these and rough pricing:

Darius Gaiden $20 JP or US
Layer Section aka Galactic Attack $20 JP or US
Gunbird or Strikers 1945 $20 JP only
Soukyugurentai Otokuyo $30-40 JP only
Dodonpachi $40-50 JP only

Here's something important, some vertical games are designed to be played on a monitor that is positioned in vertical orientation (on it's side, known as "Tate"). Games which do this have alternate modes with allow you to play them with a regular positioned TV, but the game-screen will be reduced and often the graphics are marred as a result. If you don't have a TV which you can Tate, then get games that don't utilize it (such as any horizontal game, and the ocasional vertical game) - it makes a world of difference.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:08 am

Haha.

I'd highly recommend a Japanese 360 or Saturn. I've created a highly comprehensive Japanese 360 FAQ, maybe you'd like to check it out. It's merely a matter of buying a JP 360 and buying an external power supply of your own region along with games which might interest.

Deathsmiles and Otomedius X happen to be among the easiest, by complete coincidence I also happen to be selling mine.

As for Saturn, considering the games are out of print, you'd require either a proxy service for Yahoo! Japan, someone in Japan to help you, or possibly buy them from someone else here.

For PS3, there's a selection of PC-Engine games available from the Japanese PSN store, which is currently down. Wii has a few shmups as well as a variety on the Virtual Console store, but it's all recycled content from previous generations. For retail shmups in the future, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Funen1 · Post by **Funen1** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:34 am

chempop wrote:Siren2011 wrote...
DOJ and Galuda 2
This some sort of sick joke? Those are for expert players.

I don't know, DOJ might still be reasonable. Granted, I'm not exactly new to shooting games, but I got a bare-bones-ish BL 1-ALL with A-E less than a week after picking up the game. I can see DOJ as something where progress comes steadily, but satisfactorily, even for a relative newcomer.

Naglfar, if you're looking for danmaku games in particular, I (perhaps predictably :V) recommend Touhou. I know people on this site like to make fun of it, but in terms of adjusting to the genre Touhou's relatively easy difficulty actually helps it here, I think. Of course, its style is noticeably different from most shooting games, so it may not appeal to you. If it does though, they're doujin games made for Windows PCs, so hardware-wise it's pretty straightforward (you can use a keyboard just fine). I don't know off the top of my head if rancor has certain copies in stock, but I know someone from another forum who regularly assists people in purchasing and shipping these things overseas, and he lists prices for the Touhou games anywhere from 1000-2700 yen (around 13-34 US dollars).

cools · Post by **cools** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:55 am

Playstation 1, arcade stick, Raiden DX.

Naglfar · Post by **Naglfar** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:56 am

I guess I made myself sound like a complete newcomer, so I should probably clarify - I'm making a leap from Touhou to the rest of the genre. I'm approaching the point where I can 1cc Lunatic on the easier games, and I do own a controller, though one of the buttons has issues with responsiveness due to damage. Nevermind, I can work around that.

Thanks for all the help, I'll start with the MAME games (I hope they're not too graphically demanding for my computer) and I'll look into getting a J360 sometime.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:21 am

Coming from Touhou I'd recommend Mushihimesama for PS2, which has a lot of similarities to Touhou, especially Maniac mode.

Drum · Post by **Drum** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:30 am

MAME MAME MAME

JJXB · Post by **JJXB** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:50 am

I'm no good at most of these games at the moment but i am improving. it was first the PS2 port of DOJ that got me into these games. then i ended up expanding to other CAVE titles through emulation (me having no money to buy some of this stuff is a big barrier for the stuff that can't be emulated yet as much as i would love to be able to afford it). at this point i own deathsmiles (waiting for RSG to do the same with DOJ and DFK mainly since i'm in the EU and lack the money to import a J360) and also spend plenty of time playing DOJ, Ketsui and ESPGaluda on my PSP through Final Burn Alpha LB cave build.
but yeah, improving over time from some of the stuff i'm reading on here.

Treasurance · Post by **Treasurance** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:55 am

I'd like to see somebody start their shmup career with HELLSINKER

Zaarock · Post by **Zaarock** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:44 pm

Treasurance wrote:I'd like to see somebody start their shmup career with HELLSINKER

I bet they'd spam the invincibility circle all day

man9child · Post by **man9child** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:16 pm

I thought the stock answer to this question was Dodonpachi. Espgaluda is another good gateway shmup, because it's forgiving at first. I'd also reccomend Psikyo shmups like Strikers 1945 II or Gunbird to someone just starting out. Simple and lots of fun. Or you could just jump in at the deep end with Ketsui.

Whatever you end up playing, a good controller or joystick is a must. For gamepads you can't beat a Saturn pad. They are available for PC and for PS2, so with PSX adapters you can use them on anything.

For sticks a lot of people will tell you Seimitsu. I agree for the most part. However if you're on a budget, you might want to look into the PSX Namco stick. The little grey stick with yellow buttons/ball top. That was by far, the best (and cheapest) non-Seimitsu stick I've used for shmups.

Bananamatic · Post by **Bananamatic** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:18 pm

Be a boss and play with a keyboard

Post by **nZero** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:20 pm

cools wrote:Playstation 1, arcade stick, Raiden DX.

I wholeheartedly agree with and endorse this comment.

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:30 pm

I really think it depends most on what consoles you have available to you to start with.

I should really just sit down and make a "What games to start with?" guide one of these days, I've seen this question come up a lot (I was one of them haha).

BeruBeru · Post by **BeruBeru** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:47 pm

Being completely honest here, and if someone wants to prove me wrong please do, but there isn't a better platform in existence for shmups than the pc.
Also, about controllers, if you ever played a fighting game, pick your favorite controller for it, although once you feel you want to take things more seriously you should consider getting an arcade stick with a Seimitsu joystick (most common for shmuppers is the LS-32).

psy · Post by **psy** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:58 pm

Personally, I went down a very unconventional path...

I started off with Touhou, which is fairly common as a first shmup...

Then I moved on to Ikaruga which I actually loved even as a n00b that couldn't survive the first level, let alone chain it...

Then Guwange and DoDonPachi, which I tend to play at the moment (as well as Ikaruga).

Alec · Post by **Alec** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:47 pm

Do you have an Xbox 360? You can download Guwange for $10. It's a phenomenal deal for one of my all time favorites. Then there is Ikaruga available for the same price, tough as nails, but usually leaves a positive 1st impression with gamers. On disc is Raiden Fighters Aces (3in1) and Raiden IV that can be bought super cheap, same goes for Deathsmiles if you're interested. These games are great deal for the prices and you really can't go wrong.

I'd stay away from importing until you're sure you want to sink a lot of money into the games. That goes for both Xbox and Playstation. All PS2 games are region locked as well as about half the Xbox 360 shooters, so on top of the game cost there's also a few hundred dollars going into hardware.

MAME is the cheapest way to get started. If you have even a half decent PC you're good to go.

An arcade joystick should be your first big purchase, unless you play fighters and already have one.

Siren2011 · Post by **Siren2011** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:12 pm

This some sort of sick joke? Those are for expert players.

Not at all. And just because he asked for games to introduce himself to the genre does not necessarily entail easy shmups exclusively. The fist one I ever played was indeed DOJ. The sooner he gets exposed to it the better. If you can get to the third stage, then getting to the fourth stage in Galuda 1 should take much less effort. That contrast is important because after playing the harder games, the easier ones become less intimidating. I bounced back and forth from playing both for years.

I can see DOJ as something where progress comes steadily, but satisfactorily, even for a relative newcomer.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Sega Saturn is a great console for shmups, there are dozens of good titles but you will need a Pro Action Replay 4in1 Cart to play Japanese imports.

True, but he can also mod his console (which is a very easy process) to allow disc swaps. After modding, all you will need is a real SS game and the burned CD of the rom you want to play. There is a Racketboy article on the step-by-step procedure involved, but I can't be arsed to find it now, because I'm going out to see Midnight in Paris with some friends now. I haven't been this excited about seeing a movie in theaters since The Dark Knight.

He would need to have a Japanese PS2 for those games as well

Or he could get Swap Magic. I've had my disc for years, and it's scratched to hell and back, but it still gets the job done.

Despatche · Post by **Despatche** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:01 pm

dodonpachi daioujou black label

Obiwanshinobi · Post by **Obiwanshinobi** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:02 pm

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=563841
With that said, avoid games with more than 1 frame's worth of input lag (that hack doesn't reduce the whole lag in every game). As much as I'd like to recommend early Psikyo, on MAME their late works - Dragon Blaze, Gunbird 2, Space Bomber - have more responsive controls. In Dragon Blaze use the third button every now and then. Just saying.

dunpeal2064 · Post by **dunpeal2064** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:38 pm

To add to the us360 games:
guwange
ikaruga
raiden fighters aces
raiden iv
deathsmiles

you can also import region free versions of :
mushihimesama futari (bitchin game),
espgaluda 2,
eschatos (pretty sure its region free),
muchi muchi pork/pink sweets (also bitchin, but tough)

And if you go the jp360 route, that adds tons, including:
Ketsui (very hard, but amazing)
Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou BLEX (same boat as ketsui, if not better)
Dodonpachi Dai Fukkatsu 1.5
Dodonpachi Dai Fukkutsu Black Label
Akai Kitana
Shikigami no Shiro III

Casper<3 · Post by **Casper<3** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:43 pm

If you have a 360 (american or japanese) you can pick up the platinum hits version of mushihimesama futari. It's a fun game with difficulty levels that vary huge depending on your needs (novice all the way to ultra).

You will also want to eventually pick up an arcade stick. You can find a decent one on the SRK trading outlet for about 60$.

edit: to who ever it was that said DOJ and Galuda were bad choices. Galuda was the first shmup I purchased and loved it. I also loved DOJ. couldn't beat it, still can't beat it, but had loads of fun with it.

TrevHead (TVR) · Post by **TrevHead (TVR)** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:04 pm

Grap Mame and have a go at beating (1CC) Dodonpachi with TATE, many ppl think of it as the quintessential bullet hell STG.

You have several routes into the genre. 1st is through the 360 as by and large all the new commercial STGs are on that system, there are 3 cave region free titles you can import. But I would hurry MMP & Pink Sweets double pack is just about sold out everywhere, Mushimisama Futari (£20) has been out for some time and is probably nearly out of stock, ESP Galuda 2 (£20) is quite new so you can afford to sit on that awhile (If you wait for these to go out of stock dont be suprised if you are gouged on Ebay). Apart from 2 non cave region free titles and the localised 360 STGs. The rest are region locked to the J360, if you have the cash to burn importing an console is the best option. Deathsmiles is a must buy.

Apart from the 360 you can buy the retro consoles and the games that were on the system. Check this site out lots of guides here http://www.racketboy.com/retro/shooters ... oters.html. (just to note some of the PS2 bullet hells suffer from slowdown problems)

Then you have emulation on the PC which is what ild recommend but you will need to learn how to get all the programs and roms together and get it set up. Its not hard, and there is lots of guides on the net in how to go about it, you just have to put in the effort. Imo the best thing about emulation (apart from it been free) is that it can eliminate any slowdown problems it that the original console had.

Lastly is the doujin / freeware route, while they might be mostly fan games made by 1 or 2 man dev teams dont pass them off as bad games there are some real gems to be found if you know what youre looking for. Here is a small selection of them http://www.sk8tokyo.com/shmup/

This site is cool for checking out unknown games http://hardcoregaming101.net/

PS for anyone new to STGs Jamestown on steam is well worth picking up. (so is playing Kenta Cho and X.X games like Edens Aegis and Blue Wish Resurrection)

EDIT (Imo For most commercial vertical STGs that are on the 360 and MAME you want to TATE or play on a big TV. PC and many older console STGs are designed to be played on a normal monitor

ebarrett · Post by **ebarrett** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:27 pm

You need TATE as much as you need scanlines, and you need an arcade stick as much as you need a full cabinet.

Just get MAME and go about trying out at least a couple games from each major developer (Psikyo, IREM, CAVE, Raizing, Toaplan, etc - game styles vary wildly) with whatever controller you're most comfortable with. Some (most?) people here will try to convince you that shmups need some sort of arcane ritual to be fully appreciated, but can you really trust a bunch of scanline fetishists?

Casper<3 · Post by **Casper<3** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:47 pm

ebarrett wrote:you need an arcade stick as much as you need a full cabinet.

I disagree with this 100%.

Playing on a stick compared to keyboard/pad is like night and day. It makes the experience that much more enjoyable, even if it's only aesthetics.

Bananamatic · Post by **Bananamatic** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:52 pm

instant scanlines

TransatlanticFoe · Post by **TransatlanticFoe** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:21 pm

Morality aside, your best starting point is MAME.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 59&start=0

This is dead easy to set up and Google is your friend for getting things to play on it. A lot of games received console ports, so you can easily use MAME to determine whether you think a console and game is worth shelling out for.

If you are looking for a console, then either a Mega Drive/Genesis or a Saturn is a great place to start. The 16 bit era was full of shmups and the hardware was approaching something capable of a faithful arcade port. As far as the Saturn goes, you'll need a 4-in-1 cart (Action Replay) to play games from outside of your region and it's much more user friendly than modding and straining the laser's motor with the "swap trick". Most games fall within the £10-20 mark, with Mega Drive games mostly available for less than £10. They're really the most user friendly consoles to start with, as you can import Saturn with an Action Replay cart and PAL/US are interchangeable for Mega Drive/Genesis (Action Replay needed for Japan).

If you're starting out, I'd probably stay clear of more modern games until you've had a bit of time with older games - but I say this having starting out playing shmups in the arcades as a kid during the 80s.

Some good ones I grew up on:

Flying Shark (MAME)
Fire Shark (MAME has no sound, Mega Drive)
Twin Cobra (MAME, Mega Drive)
Raiden (MAME, Mega Drive {as Raiden Trad})
Air Buster/Aero Blasters (MAME, Mega Drive)
Carrier Airwing (MAME)
Darius 2 (MAME, Saturn - Mega Drive as Sagaia)

And a few later ones from getting a Saturn:

Layer Section/RayForce/Galactic Attack/Gunlock (MAME, Saturn)
{Japanese only for Saturn}:
Soukyugurentai (MAME, Saturn) [an Action Replay cart will translate most of this game into English if you get the regular and not Otokuyo version]
Strikers 1945 (MAME, Saturn)
Donpachi (MAME, Saturn)

I reckon this eases you in and gives a reasonable flavour of the genre without things getting scarily intense. There's a load of good stuff on the Dreamcast although most need either a Japanese console or a boot disk (easy to do yourself) and aside from Giga Wing (which was my entry point to "bullet hell") the games don't tend to be cheap (something something CD-R games). Oh, and there are still awesome crazy people who continue to make Dreamcast shmups (region free), so the console is worth the investment.

shmups.system11.org

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