Thunderforce 1 (It's finally here! New pics)

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:32 pm

It took a damn long time to find, but here it is. I give you...

Thunderforce 1 for the PC-88. Sort of unimpressive looking, really. That's the picture from the auction I won, It'll probably be a month before I get it shipped over here. Once it's in my grubby little hands, I'll take more pictures of it. I don't know if the game is rare or not in Japan, but I've never seen pictures of the box before on any US web page. Does anybody know what the box for the X1 version looks like?

Unfortunetly even after I have the game, I can't actually play it. I do have a PC-8801, but this game comes on cassette and I only have floppy drives. I also don't have a keyboard yet so I can't load it. Eventually once I track down all the parts, I will be able to play it.

Melf · Post by **Melf** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:58 pm

Hot damn! That's sweet.

I'm going to write a feature on the Thunder Force series. mind if I use that pic?

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:06 pm

Be my guest. I'll post more pictures once it arrives here, feel free to use those too.

Another thing I recently discovered is that there is a port of Thunder Force 1 to the FM-7, another Japanese computer. Most articles say it was only ported to the PC-88 and X1 or mistakenly say it was ported to the MSX. The box looks identical to the PC-88 version, except that it says "FM-7" rather than "PC-88001mkII"

Crappy little picture, but you can see it says FM-7 on the box.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:28 pm

I'm sure it's not as good graphically as the rest of the series, but it's probably as fun.

Was the PC-88 the only port this shmup got?

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:56 pm

I don't know if most shmuppers would like Thunder Force 1. It's just like the overhead levels from Thunder Force II, but without the side scrolling one.

From what I've read, the X1 version is supposed to be better than the PC-88 version. However, most people judge these games by the emulated version. And in my experience, PC-88 games look much better on the real deal than they do on the emulator. The picture quality is much better.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:19 am

That is awesome Blue Lander. Must have been expensive. You should keep that as a true collector's item.

Times like this I wish there was such a thing as a "Shmup Museum" somewhere in the world where stuff like this could be collected. Keep us updated with more pics please when you receive it.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:17 am

What's the X1 Blue Lander?

If it's like the overhead levels of 2, then it sounds kinda like Bosconian-at least that's what I found the overhead levels in 2 to be like.

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:21 am

Yeah, it wasn't cheap! But I paid for it by selling some old college books, so in a way it didn't really cost me anything as I exchanged something I didn't want for something I did want. It was bundled with three other games (Enterprise, Freeway, Gyro Adventure), so I can probably sell those to make a few bucks back as well. Gyro Adventure is apparently a shmup, though, so I might keep it.

A shmup museum would be a great idea. At the very least, some sort of online "history of shmups" with pictures of the systems, games, PCBs, etc.

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:28 am

dave4shmups wrote:What's the X1 Blue Lander?

It's yet another obscure Japanese computer that was never released here. Thunder Force 1 was released on three computers: The Sharp X1, the NEC PC-8801, and the Fujitsu FM-7 As far as capabilities go, they're all roughly equal to an MSX 1. Superior in some ways, but mostly the same.

If it's like the overhead levels of 2, then it sounds kinda like Bosconian-at least that's what I found the overhead levels in 2 to be like.

Yeah, it's quite a bit like Bosconian or Time Pilot '84.

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:12 am

I've read that the PC-88 has fairly high resolution for it's age, and that it's sound capabilties are better than most similar computers.

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:36 am

The PC-88 has fantastic music. Some of the games I've tried for it have really blown me away. I think Nobuo Uematsu of Final Fantasy fame got his start on that system.

The graphics are a mixed bag. They're high resolution but the color palette is very low. For an idea of what PC-88 games look like, this page has quite a few screenshots. They're in chronological order with the newest ones at the bottom, so check those out to see the PC-88 at its full potential.

PS: This page has a screenshot of the PC-8801 version of Thunder Force.

DarkWolf7 · Post by **DarkWolf7** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:00 am

I absolutely love the musical capabilities of the PC-88. SoundBoard II (YM2608/OPNA), with it's 6 FM, 3 SSG, Rhythm (drum samples built into YM2608), and 16 kHZ ADPCM channels, is just amazing - it's better than anything else that uses FM Synth that I've ever heard - even better than the X68000, which is YM-2151 based (OPM). The Scheme is probably my number 1 favorite among PC-88 SBII soundtracks. Misty Blue and Star Cruiser are really good as well.

The OPM/OPN stuff on the PC-88 is very good as well - I find myself listening to lots of PC-88 Falcom music in particular (Xanadu Scenario II and Sorcerian are fantastic). The Scheme has really good OPN music as well, which is completely different from its SBII music.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:24 am

Apparantly, the PC-8801 has the original version of Slipheed. Is this correct? I tried the original Thunder Force on a rom and I like it. It's a lot like a combination of Time Pilot and Xevious.

OT: In the game pack rom I downloaded for the PC-88 was this game called Mario Bros Special. Apparantly, it's a Hudson Soft designed original game based on the first Mario Bros. It has copyright info from both Hudson Soft and Nintendo on the title screen. It seeems to be a legit game. It's probably the most original game I played based on the original Mario Bros. I only played the first few levels, but I'm impressed by what I played. Each level has a different type of puzzles to solve and enemies aren't always destroyed by hitting them under where they walk and then touching them. You have to find other ways to flip them over.

Were there any other Japanese Nintendo lincensed home games like this that came out before the NES?

DarkWolf7 · Post by **DarkWolf7** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:28 am

Donkey Kong for ColecoVision is probably the most well known example of such.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:12 pm

DarkWolf7 wrote:Donkey Kong for ColecoVision is probably the most well known example of such.

That port was designed by Coleco in the US. I was talking about Japanese exclusive games.

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:33 pm

Hudson did a very interesting version of Super Mario Bros on the PC-88, too. It's similar to the NES game, but the screen doesn't scroll and the levels are totally different, too. It's quite difficult, especially since it doesn't give you much time to finish each level.

I think Hudson also did Excite Bike on the PC-88, but I don't know for sure.

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:12 pm

Sweet, It has a version of Veigues Tactical Gladiator.

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:45 pm

Is that game any good? I mean, the PC Engine version at least. I've seen that game fairly cheap a few times, but it's hard to figure out what kind of game it is just from looking at screenshots.

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:31 pm

I like it, though some might be put off by the controls (you have to press down to turn around). It's a side scrolling game with the screen constantly scrolling, except at bosses. It starts out really easy but by stage five or so it gets really nuts. It has a somehwhat shmupish feel to it, with the constantly scrolling screen and the intensity. You can also upgrade your mech inbetween stages. If it's fairly cheap, I'd say pick it up. It's a decent 2D mech game, IMO.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:23 pm

Heh heh. Gotta love the engrish on that Silpheed loading screen.

Very nice system. Looks like just the middle point in between the C64 and the Amiga. Question. Is by any chance the architecture similar to that of the PC Engine, and that the reason some games appeared on both systems? (And the name too)

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:15 pm

Both the PC Engine and PC-8801 are by NEC, I assume that's why the names are similar. But from a programmer's point of view, they're probably totally different. The PC Engine is based on a sorta-6502 knockoff CPU, whereas the PC-8801 is Z80 based. I don't know how similar or different the video and audio hardware is, though.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:39 am

Blue Lander wrote:A shmup museum would be a great idea. At the very least, some sort of online "history of shmups" with pictures of the systems, games, PCBs, etc.

You know, we at SHMUPS could do this. A Virtual Shmup Museum. I'm sure many of us would be more than glad to scan precious items from our collections.

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:43 am

I'd certainly be happy to contribute to it. I guess the only hardship of putting togeather some sort of online shmup collection would be hosting all of those pictures. But if anybody at Shmups.com ever decided to do something like that, I'd want to participate.

Sundance · Post by **Sundance** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:51 am

Melf wrote:Hot damn! That's sweet.

I'm going to write a feature on the Thunder Force series. mind if I use that pic?

You may wanna check this out also Thunder Force Forever

gigadrive32 · Post by **gigadrive32** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:29 pm

I don't know much about the Sharp X1, but I assume it is the predecessor of the 16-Bit Sharp X68000. so I also assume that Sharp X1 is to the X68000 what the NES is to the SNES, what the Master System is to the Genesis, what the C64 is to the Amiga etc. and also, the Fujitsu FM-7, I assume that is the predecessor of the FM Towns.

I would love to see real comparisons between all three versions of
Thunder Force 1, taken from the real machines

btw, there is an arcade game by Data East called Last Mission, you can play it in MAME. it is very similar to the overhead levels of Thunder Force II. Last Mission is dated 1986, so it looks better than Thunder Force I from 1984-85, but not as good as Thunder Force II on X68000 from 1988, or even the weaker MD/Genesis TF II from 1989.

regarding the PC Engine, most of us know that Hudson designed the hardware but they also designed the custom hardware of the Sharp X68000. I feel that the Sharp X68000 is what the SuperGrafx
(PC Engine 2) should have been, instead of what the SuperGrafx was, a modestly enhanced PC Engine with the same CPU and the SAME music / audio capabilities as its ancestor.

gigadrive32 · Post by **gigadrive32** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:23 pm

Last Mission by Data East - kinda TF1-esque

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:54 pm

gigadrive32 wrote:I don't know much about the Sharp X1, but I assume it is the predecessor of the 16-Bit Sharp X68000. so I also assume that Sharp X1 is to the X68000 what the NES is to the SNES, what the Master System is to the Genesis, what the C64 is to the Amiga etc. and also, the Fujitsu FM-7, I assume that is the predecessor of the FM Towns.

Yup, the Sharp X1 is a precursor to the X68k and the FM 7 is a precursor to the FM Towns. There are a couple models of computers between them, though, so they aren't direct predecessors.

I would love to see real comparisons between all three versions of
Thunder Force 1, taken from the real machines

I'd love to be able to do something like that. I already have a PC-88, and I have a Sharp X1 coming in the mail one of these days. FM 7s are quite cheap, so I could get one if I wanted. The only problem is that the cheap X1s and FM 7s don't come with floppy drives. You can buy external drives and the more modern models come with built in drives, but those are way too expensive for me. Thunder Force 1 comes on casette tape, though, so if I could actually hunt down the FM 7 and X1 versions I could play them. But I couldn't download a disk image off the internet, copy it to a real disk, and play it.

regarding the PC Engine, most of us know that Hudson designed the hardware but they also designed the custom hardware of the Sharp X68000. I feel that the Sharp X68000 is what the SuperGrafx
(PC Engine 2) should have been, instead of what the SuperGrafx was, a modestly enhanced PC Engine with the same CPU and the SAME music / audio capabilities as its ancestor.

The problem with that is that the X68000 sold for about five thousand dollars when it came out. That's really, really expensive. If they had removed the floppy drives and all the other computer features that a game system doesn't need I'm sure it would have been less expensive. But would it be cheap enough to compete as a home console?

Hmm, Last Mission does look a lot like Thunder Force 1. It sounds like the weapon system is similar, too. I wonder if Tecnosoft was involved or if it's just a ripoff.

ED-057 · Post by **ED-057** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:20 am

Darkwolf7, how does one go about hearing some PC-88 music on a PC? Are there ripped sound files around (ala SID or GYM, etc.) or do you need to find programs to run under a PC-88 emu? Isn't YM2608 similar to what the Genesis has?

I ran some MSX demos in an emulator and those had impressive FM music also.

Stefan_L · Post by **Stefan_L** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:50 am

ED-057 wrote:Darkwolf7, how does one go about hearing some PC-88 music on a PC? Are there ripped sound files around (ala SID or GYM, etc.)

you can use Hoot for listening on PC88 music, but it's a difficult program to use.

Blue Lander · Post by **Blue Lander** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:44 pm

Thunder Force 1 finally came in the mail today! Woohoo!

Sorry about the blurry pics, I'll try to get better ones.

Anyways, as you can see the game comes on tape. Once I have a keyboard for my PC-88, I should be able to play it, assuming the tape's still good. I'm a little strapped for cash right now, so I'd probably be willing to sell it for a good offer if one came along, too.