So how 'bout those protests in Wisconsin?

[Mischief Maker]

If you haven't heard, WI governor Scott Walker is looking to take away collective bargaining rights from state employee unions (Rushed the bill through in record time, in fact) and the state employees have proven to be a little miffed.

One of the big things with Walker is he doesn't have time to talk to democrats. He doesn't have time to talk to the protesters. His press conferences are quick and rushed. Because things are so desperate he doesn't have time! Time is short! Rush! Rush!

He did, however, have 20 minutes to spend on the phone with Billionaire republican fundraiser David Koch.

Except, and this is the delicious part, it wasn't really Koch, it was a blogger who decided to try calling Walker's office (via Skype!) claiming to be the fundraiser to see if he could get a conversation where democrats and protesters could not. And he taped the whole thing:

Part1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBnSv3a6Nh4

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3a2pYGr7-k

Walker's office has admitted that this call is real.

Dance, puppet!

[BulletMagnet]

The fellow might have a bit more credibility on the "fiscal responsibility" front if he 1) Acknowledged that the unions have already agreed to his compensation cuts, and that this whole thing would be over if he didn't also insist on chopping their balls off, and 2) Hadn't made the problem worse by giving away (surprise!) a bunch of tax cuts to corporations and the wealthy (because whenever "everyone" has to tighten their belts, that means "everyone poorer than me"). How any of these guys continue to get elected on "fiscal conservative credentials" is simply astounding.

[Specineff]

So the unions are also agreeing to screw the members over, BM?

[BryanM]

Bunch of uneducated whiners.

Those protesters should be put into a blender. With tomatoes and jalepenos.

It'll be a chunky meaty delicious kind of salsa.

Mmm.

[RNGmaster]

How any of these guys continue to get elected on "fiscal conservative credentials" is simply astounding.

I still fail to understand the logic behind how they refuse to cut military spending whatsoever, but any sort of public works project is considered excessive spending.

[BryanM]

Violence is capitalism, and only a bleeding heart liberal would be against capitalism.

[GaijinPunch]

I still fail to understand the logic behind how they refuse to cut military spending whatsoever, but any sort of public works project is considered excessive spending.

Evil Doers.

[Sonic R]

Bunch of uneducated whiners.

Those protesters should be put into a blender. With tomatoes and jalepenos.

It'll be a chunky meaty delicious kind of salsa.

Mmm.

I do hope this is jokes…
This issue hits right at home as my sister is a teacher in the state of Wisconsin and she was in Madison over the weekend…

[Mischief Maker]

So the unions are also agreeing to screw the members over, BM?

No, they're calling Walker on his bluff.

If, like he says, this measure is about a desperate need for money to balance the budget NOW and not about union-busting, he could get that money NOW by removing the collective bargaining language from the bill. The fact that he's refusing to budge shows that he really is just plain out to get the unions.

That and the part of the tape where he says Reagan firing the air traffic controllers defeated the soviet union. (8 min of part 2 if you're strapped for time)

[Domino]

So the unions are also agreeing to screw the members over, BM?

No, they're calling Walker on his bluff.

If, like he says, this measure is about a desperate need for money to balance the budget NOW and not about union-busting, he could get that money NOW by removing the collective bargaining language from the bill. The fact that he's refusing to budge shows that he really is just plain out to get the unions.

The whole idea is by removing the collective bargaining language from the bill it would prevent the union for asking for a raise on pension and other things in the future.

I'm going to side with Walker on this one.

[evil_ash_xero]

They voted him in. Now they have to deal with it.

Oh, and....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqLhdInGrk

[Heartwork]

So the unions are also agreeing to screw the members over, BM?

No, they're calling Walker on his bluff.

If, like he says, this measure is about a desperate need for money to balance the budget NOW and not about union-busting, he could get that money NOW by removing the collective bargaining language from the bill. The fact that he's refusing to budge shows that he really is just plain out to get the unions.

The whole idea is by removing the collective bargaining language from the bill it would prevent the union for asking for a raise on pension and other things in the future.

I'm going to side with Walker on this one.

That makes no god damn sense whatosever. Why should the union not be allowed to renegotiate in the future, when the State is in better financial condition? That's what unions are supposed to do. A union with no CBA is not able to do its job in any meaningful way.

[neorichieb1971]

Yeah, by voting someone in doesn't mean they won't screw you. Your giving them the power to screw you and should expect it

[Domino]

That makes no god damn sense whatosever. Why should the union not be allowed to renegotiate in the future, when the State is in better financial condition? That's what unions are supposed to do. A union with no CBA is not able to do its job in any meaningful way.

Because they want to get rid of the unions all together? I would be up for it to be honest.

[brokenhalo]

That makes no god damn sense whatosever. Why should the union not be allowed to renegotiate in the future, when the State is in better financial condition? That's what unions are supposed to do. A union with no CBA is not able to do its job in any meaningful way.

Because they want to get rid of the unions all together? I would be up for it to be honest.

would you care to explain why you think unions are bad? allowing the workers to have a voice is about the only power we have left in an increasingly profit-driven corporate dominated world. unless you happen to run a large corporation, i can't see any possible reason why you wouldn't side with the worker.

[JoshF]

Yes, and we should get rid of the management unions too (corporations.)

i can't see any possible reason why you wouldn't side with the worker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality

[Domino]

would you care to explain why you think unions are bad? allowing the workers to have a voice is about the only power we have left in an increasingly profit-driven corporate dominated world. unless you happen to run a large corporation, i can't see any possible reason why you wouldn't side with the worker.

Because they want other people to pay for their pensions and partly bitch when they have to pay for something out of their own pocket?

Unions are like babies not willing to grow up and want to be pampered.

And with two thrids of 8th graders can't read worth a damn it gives me more reasons to find the unions to be useless. I have a good idea, lets take away more rights from them until they can teach the kids worth a damn in their state.

[JoshF]

By chance are you enjoying the weekend Domino? You should really be working 7 days unlike those lazy unionists.

Because they want other people to pay for their pensions and partly bitch when they have to pay for something out of their own pocket?

Do you also hate it when management skims off a chunk of your paycheck for their profits? What your feeling about the bailout?

[Domino]

By chance are you enjoying the weekend Domino? You should really be working 7 days unlike those lazy unionists.

My company is closed on the weekends. Thanks for asking.

[JoshF]

Yeah it's closed because unions struggled during the Industrial Revolution for a 5 day work week. Remember to send them some flowers.

[brokenhalo]

would you care to explain why you think unions are bad? allowing the workers to have a voice is about the only power we have left in an increasingly profit-driven corporate dominated world. unless you happen to run a large corporation, i can't see any possible reason why you wouldn't side with the worker.

Because they want other people to pay for their pensions and partly bitch when they have to pay for something out of their own pocket?

Unions are like babies not willing to grow up and want to be pampered.

And with two thrids of 8th graders can't read worth a damn it gives me more reasons to find the unions to be useless. I have a good idea, lets take away more rights from them until they can teach the kids worth a damn in their state.

i never really understand that argument. why complain that someone else was able to negotiate a better deal than you? do you know why i have shitty healthcare that i pay entirely too much for and a 401k account instead of a pension? because my workplace doesn't have a union. instead of trying to drag other people down to the lowest common denominator, we should strive to raise the bar. if that means the millionaire/billionaire elite get a smaller slice of the pie, tough. they've rigged the game in such a way that they always win. if being able to afford a house and have children and not have to work 2 or 3 jobs to do it is being pampered, then we have very different definitions of pampered.

you might want to read the link you gave a little more carefully. you'll notice it says that

Nationwide, only 30 percent of public school eighth graders earned a rating of “proficient” or better in reading, and the average reading score on the NAEP test was 262 out of 500.

There are quite a few reasons for this problem. Simply eliminating the teachers union wouldn't fix the problems in the slightest.

[t0yrobo]

would you care to explain why you think unions are bad? allowing the workers to have a voice is about the only power we have left in an increasingly profit-driven corporate dominated world. unless you happen to run a large corporation, i can't see any possible reason why you wouldn't side with the worker.

Because they want other people to pay for their pensions and partly bitch when they have to pay for something out of their own pocket?

Unions are like babies not willing to grow up and want to be pampered.

And with two thrids of 8th graders can't read worth a damn it gives me more reasons to find the unions to be useless. I have a good idea, lets take away more rights from them until they can teach the kids worth a damn in their state.

I don't know how much of that can be blamed on teachers so much as the whole system. I attended a charter middle school that received similar amounts of money as normal public schools, and has much higher test scores. Then I went to a private high school that has less money to spend than public schools, and students there also had higher test scores. There's so many many external factors to education that you can't get an accurate picture just looking at a few at a time.

[Domino]

Yeah it's closed because unions struggled during the Industrial Revolution for a 5 day work week. Remember to send them some flowers.

Uggh no Universities have no reasons to open on the weekends. We get no foot trafic on weekends so why be open and waste money?

[Domino]

i never really understand that argument. why complain that someone else was able to negotiate a better deal than you?

Because if the union might want to negotiate in the future it can cost the state even more money. It's a liability and a future cost, and I know besides his political viewpoints that's why Walker want to get rid of CB.

do you know why i have shitty healthcare that i pay entirely too much for and a 401k account instead of a pension? because my workplace doesn't have a union. instead of trying to drag other people down to the lowest common denominator, we should strive to raise the bar. if that means the millionaire/billionaire elite get a smaller slice of the pie, tough. they've rigged the game in such a way that they always win. if being able to afford a house and have children and not have to work 2 or 3 jobs to do it is being pampered, then we have very different definitions of pampered.

Blah blah blah stop bitching and either find a different job or shut up. I'm being dead serious, you should be grateful you even have a job in the first place in this job market.

Life is not fair and you are not intitled to anything. If that means working two-three jobs to get that house and have kids then that's your choice.

Rant off: Actually I'm curious where do you work?

[brokenhalo]

Because if the union might want to negotiate in the future it can cost the state even more money. It's a liability and a future cost, and I know besides his political viewpoints that's why Walker want to get rid of CB.

So basically what you are saying is he should be able to tell the teachers that they should work for minimum wage (well, that is until the republicans eliminate minimum wage) without any benefits at all and they should just do as they are told? Because that's the power that you'll give walker if you take away CBA.

Blah blah blah stop bitching and either find a different job or shut up. I'm being dead serious, you should be grateful you even have a job in the first place in this job market.

Life is not fair and you are not intitled to anything.

Never realized what an asshole you were. This is America. Every person capable of work should be allowed to have a decent paying paying job.But that isn't the case anymore with all the manufacturing jobs moving to mexico, china, vietnam etc., because those people will work in terrible conditions for rediculously low wages, 7 days a week. Do you think we should do the same?

[PainAmplifier]

Because they want other people to pay for their pensions and partly bitch when they have to pay for something out of their own pocket?

Unions are like babies not willing to grow up and want to be pampered.

And with two thrids of 8th graders can't read worth a damn it gives me more reasons to find the unions to be useless. I have a good idea, lets take away more rights from them until they can teach the kids worth a damn in their state.

WI kids can read just fine, it's just that others are apparently unable to write properly! As so clearly elucidated by your fine example.

You can stop being a corporate shill, unions have no problem paying for their pensions. Like they have been doing for years. But why let the truth and actual facts stop your diatribe now?

And it's not the Unions that are acting like spoiled children here. It's the exact opposite. It's the corporations and their rich billionaire overlords who can't tolerate the fact that their every whim is not law and that workers dare to demand tolerable working conditions and a decent retirement after years of working for them.

But hey, like you say, life is not fair and you aren't entitled to anything. But that also applies to the other side as well. Unions, collective bargaining and those 'oh so nasty' worker protection laws just make sure that the corporations get to see that side of 'not fair or entitled' as well.

[Domino]

So basically what you are saying is he should be able to tell the teachers that they should work for minimum wage (well, that is until the republicans eliminate minimum wage) without any benefits at all and they should just do as they are told? Because that's the power that you'll give walker if you take away CBA.

The teacher don't have to work in the first place. If they don't like it quit.

Never realized what an asshole you were. This is America. Every person capable of work should be allowed to have a decent paying paying job.But that isn't the case anymore with all the manufacturing jobs moving to mexico, china, vietnam etc., because those people will work in terrible conditions for rediculously low wages, 7 days a week. Do you think we should do the same?

This is America, no one is intitled to have a decent paying job, a house, or even a car in matter of fact. You have to work in order to earn it. Hey if manufacturing jobs will lead to cheaper price for the end product then so beat it for those who choose to buy it (because I won't, I choose with my money).

I'm done with this thread. Don't even think about replying to me since I won't respond.

[JoshF]

God bless Somalia.

[Ex-Cyber]

This is America, no one is intitled to have a decent paying job, a house, or even a car in matter of fact. You have to work in order to earn it.

Oh, except you're not entitled to work, either. You're only entitled to lie down in a gutter and die.

Greatest country on Earth.

[brokenhalo]

So basically what you are saying is he should be able to tell the teachers that they should work for minimum wage (well, that is until the republicans eliminate minimum wage) without any benefits at all and they should just do as they are told? Because that's the power that you'll give walker if you take away CBA.

The teacher don't have to work in the first place. If they don't like it quit.

Never realized what an asshole you were. This is America. Every person capable of work should be allowed to have a decent paying paying job.But that isn't the case anymore with all the manufacturing jobs moving to mexico, china, vietnam etc., because those people will work in terrible conditions for rediculously low wages, 7 days a week. Do you think we should do the same?

This is America, no one is intitled to have a decent paying job, a house, or even a car in matter of fact. You have to work in order to earn it. Hey if manufacturing jobs will lead to cheaper price for the end product then so beat it for those who choose to buy it (because I won't, I choose with my money).

you didn't really respond to what i wrote, so i'll phrase the question another way. Corporations have spent the last 30+ years moving every job they could off of united states soil. now that they have almost totally succeeded in that, the next battleground is to lower the wages of the jobs that they can't move to further increase profit. if walker succeeds, and his corporate lobbied ideas spread across the usa (which they will), this will destroy the standard of living for everyone but the super-rich (and unless you yourself are super-rich, this will eventually effect you). So the question is, do you think we should work in the same conditions and for the same wages as our third world counterparts, or should we strive for better?