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 Post subject: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:46 am 


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Daioh is the precursor to Shienryu. This game doesn't get quite as much love, and it's annoying. Feels like some evil mix of various Toa/clone concepts cranked up to 11, it's fun as all hell and everyone should play it. Two loops, seven stages per loop; stages are counted like Tatsujin Oh. The Japanese version features the two-button weapon/bomb-switching that we know from Shienryu, the US version features the three weapons and bombs mapped to six buttons and was advertised around it; "can revert back to original Japanese version with 2-button support via a 2-pin header on a certain jumper".

Red vulcan is the strongest by far. Yellow missiles are somewhere in between, and suck. Blue lightning is the weakest, but using it leads to huge points due to the way damage works. Bombs are all good; red bomb is good as a panic bomb, blue bomb is good for just attacking large enemies from a distance, yellow bomb is good for sheer damage.

Scoring mostly comes from using blue lightning for everything, picking up everything, and never bombing or dying. Doing the right thing leads to rank, and lots of it. Collecting excess power-ups is what causes most of it; stages will get more maddening as you go along. Perhaps death leads to decreases. Altogether, rank is a big issue, and it might be impossible to even play the game at a certain point. The nature of the US version allows it to accumulate rank quicker; it might be legitimately harder in its own right.

For the record, a lot of this probably applies to Shienryu; exceptions include some things simply working differently and the candle items (haha). It's a dual thread for that purpose.

Stage 1 boss concept is basically collecting the items on the sides while dodging the pattern. For the first stage 2 boss, it's much simpler to take on the heads from right to left. If you're particularly fed up with the second stage 2 boss, you can suicide into it for an instant destruction. The stage 3 and 4 bosses have patterns that don't seem particularly bad; just don't get too close, and get a handle on speed.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:05 pm 


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Despatche wrote:
Red vulcan is the strongest by far. Yellow missiles are somewhere in between, and suck.


Isn't the missile actually much stronger than vulcan?
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:43 pm 


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In my experience, vulcan is the strongest weapon at very close or point-blank range. From a distance, missiles are the most powerful. Lightning is great for popcorn and low-health enemies.

I might've mentioned this elsewhere, but avoiding the max power-up item helps keep the rank at a manageable level. A few seconds after one floats off the screen, the rank will drop significantly. Dying only lowers the rank by a relatively small amount.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:40 am 


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Max rank makes stage 5 a nightmare. You're better off avoiding that.

Quote:
<Despatche> red vulcan is probably really good for any given boss
<Despatche> weapon of choice for final boss
<Despatche> when he does laser, point blank an arm
<Despatche> destroy both arms = guaranteed victory

<Despatche> you can probably power up to max early and still do well
<Despatche> just avoid excess items and leave the purple powerup alone
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:48 pm 


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saucykobold wrote:
I might've mentioned this elsewhere, but avoiding the max power-up item helps keep the rank at a manageable level. A few seconds after one floats off the screen, the rank will drop significantly. Dying only lowers the rank by a relatively small amount.


That's great to know.
I gave up on Shienryu a while ago because the game became impossible in stage 5. I remember I tried to keep rank down by avoiding some power-ups, but I guess I wasn't doing it right. :?
Gonna give it another try soon.

Question: is the Daioh that's present in the Dezaemon SFC cart a port of the original Daioh?
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:35 am 


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I have no idea what Daioh Gale is even supposed to resemble.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:29 pm 



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Daioh Gale is also present on the PSX game known as Dezaemon Plus (considering that Athena Co. Ltd. published both the Daioh PCB & SFC/SS/PSX/N64 Dezaemon ports). Yes, Daioh Gale is regarded as a very "lite" version based on the original arcade PCB iteration indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:39 pm 


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What I've been wondering:

Are Daioh and Shienryu the same game with a different Button-Setup or is Shienryu a "real" successor to Daioh?

Please elaborate.

Edit: D'oh, Reading really helps understanding things better... Daioh: 1993, Shienryu: 1997... No more answers your honour... 8)
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:40 pm 



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Shienryu's essentially a remake of Daioh, developed by some of the some people (including programmer/designer Tsutomu Tabata) after leaving Athena to start Warashi. The PS1 port of the game's called Gekioh, which slightly de-obfuscates the connection.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:53 am 


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Regarding rank: During my STGT testing, I found that picking up yellow medals and excess speed-ups did not appear to increase it noticeably like excess powerups do.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:40 pm 


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So I was having a mighty run in Shienryu on the Saturn, 4 lives in reserve in the 7th stage and such. Was going to win!
Then I bomb to avoid some nasty bullets and... the animation for the bomb fades and I turn invisible!
In all subsequent lives I was like this invisible ghost. Couldn't shoot anything, and was obliterated by enemy fire. A very good run, lost to a bug... :(

I think I died but in that split-second I bombed the game didn't register my death or something.
Anybody ever experience this? :o
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:10 pm 


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How do you get the 2up in Daioh at the 1st boss ? I tried to destroy all the crates on the ground before killing the boss, but the only thing i get is 2 bombs. sikraiken on his replay manages to get it, but how?
Also, I can't get it on the 3rd stage either.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:25 pm 


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Fu wrote:
How do you get the 2up in Daioh at the 1st boss ? I tried to destroy all the crates on the ground before killing the boss, but the only thing i get is 2 bombs. sikraiken on his replay manages to get it, but how?
Also, I can't get it on the 3rd stage either.


Item order is quasi-random. IIRC sikraiken sat through a certain number of attract mode cycles in order to guarantee himself the 2up in Stage 1.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:44 pm 


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So, does that mean that you would get the 2up later if you started the game right at the start, without attract modes?


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:09 pm 


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Fu wrote:
So, does that mean that you would get the 2up later if you started the game right at the start, without attract modes?


You might never get a 2up, it depends on how your route through the game affects the random number generator. Here's one of sikraiken's posts regarding the extend items: viewtopic.php?p=711157#p711157
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:28 am 


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Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:21 am 


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nZero wrote:
Fu wrote:
How do you get the 2up in Daioh at the 1st boss ? I tried to destroy all the crates on the ground before killing the boss, but the only thing i get is 2 bombs. sikraiken on his replay manages to get it, but how?
Also, I can't get it on the 3rd stage either.


Item order is quasi-random. IIRC sikraiken sat through a certain number of attract mode cycles in order to guarantee himself the 2up in Stage 1.


In case someone misses the post linked above, the attract mode cycling is just to ensure that an extend item (not necessarily 2up) appears at a certain time. I recommend just reading the post linked above (and below).

viewtopic.php?p=711157#p711157
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:12 pm 



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To add to this, I'm pretty sure there is no way to predict when the special items after the first one will spawn, as the timer will just get random values after that. The first item can be manipulated since the attract mode replays set the timer to some fixed values. Sikraiken is extremely lucky with the early game items in his replay, it's likely that you will see far less of them.

When you start the game right after booting, you will get your first special item pretty late. Usually stage 4 but it varies depending on how long you take at the bosses.

Edit: Good strategy for an easy clear is to try to spend a lot of time at easy boss phases. This maximizes the chances of getting the special items as those purple P-items, that you should never in any situation pick up but let drop for the massive rank decrease.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:02 am 


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Necro, but a fun-fact I just found out while working on Daioh Arrange:

If you turn on the Service switch while the game is running, it will appear to freeze. However, if you press Button 3, the game will advance exactly 1 frame. Obviously this is a bit of a problem if you're not playing the Japanese version with only 2 buttons (determined in MAME by the region you have it set to), but it's neat, and I thought I should share :P

EDIT: If you turn off the service switch while this is happening, press button 3 again to resume full speed.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:22 am 


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So, since sikraiken popped back into IRC and prodded me, I took a bit of time out of ripping Daioh up from the edges and went right for the guts.

Here is the PRNG algorithm that Daioh uses. It uses this quite often.
Code:
unsigned short seed;

unsigned short daiohPRNG(void)
{
  int carry, tmp;

  unsigned short ret = seed;

  d1 = (seed >> 2) ^ (seed >> 3) ^ (seed >> 7);

  carry = (seed >> 6) & 1;

  tmp = d1 & 1;
  d1 = (carry << 15) | (d1 >> 1);
  carry = tmp;

  tmp = ret & 1;
  ret = (carry << 15) | (ret >> 1);
  carry = tmp;

  ret += 8;
  seed += ret;
  return ret;
}


In order to hit the 2UP, you need the requirement for the 1UP (have a counter/timer be at a certain value), then the PRNG takes a random number 0 through 3. If it's not 0, you get a 1UP. If it's 0, it then compares a couple numbers, and if they match, you get a 2UP. Otherwise you get a 1UP. I don't know what those "couple numbers" are yet, but I'll edit this when I find out.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:05 pm 


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Ok, so here's the final version of the algorithm for which special item you get:
Code:
if(itemCounter != (shotType1P + shotType2P)) {
  return maxPowerItem;
}
if((daiohPRNG() & 3) != 0) {
  return 1UP;
}

if((speedItems1P + speedItems2P) != (powerItems1P + powerItems2P)) {
  return 1UP;
}
return 2UP;

shotType is 0 for shot, 1 for laser, 2 for missiles.
speedItems and powerItems are reset to 0 when you die.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Daioh/Shienryu
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:41 am 


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Not mentioned yet is having the purple power-up spew a ton of pickups, pretty sure this only happens when you are fully powered and collect it. I tend to grab the purple power-up in only two situations: right before I fight stage 7 boss, and during the special stage when I only have zero-one life to spare.
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