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 Post subject: GD: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:22 pm 


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I've been trying to 1cc this lately and I've been wondering how the rank actually works - I've heard that complete sets affect it, then that separate items do - but how much? Or the total item amount you picked up including duplicates?

I only picked up 4 special items and a bunch of lv8 swords and Dratrion's bullet spread before you destroy the jets shoots 4 waves of bullets compared to 2 waves when you collect no items.

Oh and I've been thinking about doing a complete ST about the game - do it or not?



<changed RQ to GD -inc.>


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:50 pm 


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As far as we know, items and rank are directly related but the details needs some testing. I thought only complete sets affected rank but your post just showed it's not like that. So maybe each item picked raises rank a little bit, while special items increases rank more. No-missing might increase rank too. All variables need to be tested.

Also, if you're thinking about writing a ST, the most important information required to be in it is a guide showing how and which sets to complete in each stage, so people can reach the chests in stage 4 with all normal sets completed. That would make 20+ million scores possible and certainly make the game more popular. The problem is that no one was able to accomplish that yet.

Probably the best way to get started with that is to study those two Dimahoo superplays, check which sets they complete in each stage and try to replicate their route in-game. Then write everything down in the ST.

A section devoted to boss fight survival would be great too, but the item guide is more important IMO.

Writing the ST will be a major task, be warned.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:19 pm 


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For what it's worth, I'd be very interested in the sort of guide Ruldra mentioned, so go for it if you have some time to spare (and excellent eyes to dissect those videos!) :)


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:22 pm 


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The problem is that the available superplays are from Miyamoto and Solo-Bang while the most popular shot types here are Karte and Grimlen(and they all work very differently including scoring plus Karte's options are completely random)...and there isn't much stuff available about this game to begin with.

I tried to search some Japanese sites but all I found was an entry in a kusoge database saying how the game is way too hard with weird scoring, useless element system and that it's terribly balanced overall.

Are there some eastern scoreboards to compare our scores with anyways? The game is pretty much a borderline kusoge at the very least, so I wouldn't be surprised if the highest scoring runs were 25m with the WR being a counterstop...

The least we can do now is:

Finish the item guide and separate the easy to complete sets from the hard to complete ones
Compare the shot types to each other in every field(I found out that Miyamoto with his bomb and shot combined is as powerful as the supposedly broken Birthday's)
Do a guide for boss survival and some problematic stage parts

How does one find out about the rank variables anyways?


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:18 am 


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Bananamatic wrote:
How does one find out about the rank variables anyways?


By testing everything individually. Some enemies change their attack patterns when rank is high, so you use them as reference to check if rank has increased. For example, the ships at the start of stage 2 has an extra bullet added to its attack when rank is high. And Dratrion, like you said, shoots 4 waves of bullets instead of 2.

So, to test the no-missing variable, reach Dratrion without dying and don't pick up any items. If its attack pattern changes, then you know it affects rank. Repeat the process for everything else.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:19 am 


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On a related note, maybe it's time for me to go back and continue my enemy drops list thread. I should at least finish stage 4 and list the rest of the special items in the remaining stages.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:54 am 


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Ruldra wrote:
By testing everything individually. Some enemies change their attack patterns when rank is high, so you use them as reference to check if rank has increased. For example, the ships at the start of stage 2 has an extra bullet added to its attack when rank is high. And Dratrion, like you said, shoots 4 waves of bullets instead of 2.

So, to test the no-missing variable, reach Dratrion without dying and don't pick up any items. If its attack pattern changes, then you know it affects rank. Repeat the process for everything else.

Oh, simple methods like that. Thought you meant some stuff with the cheat system.

Anyways, I did some tests:

1) zero items from stage 1, various combinations of many items+legend sword/items only/legend sword only and Dratrion shot only 2 waves - even with 23 items and only one being a special

2) 6 items from stage 1 including the 3 specials and only the legend sword from st2 - 7 items total - and Dratrion shot four waves this time.

Either:
1) specials increase the rank by much more
2) rank changes between stages and never during them

I'll do more tests involving charging the hell out of st1 and st2 and getting no specials and stuff.

Maybe lv8 spam is the way to go on a low rank run, avoiding all specials there are.

EDIT:
3) 23 items from stage 1, a completed set, a whole lot of duplicates from st2 and 33 items at the end - Dratrion shot 2 waves.

4) 2 items, 1 special from st1, another from st2 - and Dratrion shot 4 waves.

Some sort of a temporary conclusion - Items don't increase the rank at all or by very little(possibly unless you get a full set), while specials blast it high.

Next - 2 sets 1 special. Let's see how it goes.

EDIT: And 2 waves again.
3 specials in st1 resulted in no extra bullets at the beginning, but he still shot 4 waves.

So while sets probably have an effect on the rank, a special adds more than double of what a single set would.

Not sure if duplicates count, as the rank was somewhat acceptable after picking a ton of legends that I already got.

Either way, avoiding specials seems to be the way to go.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:06 am 



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How's the element system work in this anyway? Is it like Ikaruga where you do more damage to enemies of the opposite element?Or other benefits involved with it.


Also, how do you get the secret characters?

Didn't see any of those in the other strategy guides.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:41 am 


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Insert coin, up, up, left, down, down, right, A, B, A, B, A start.

The secret characters are highly impractical though, I wouldn't even bother with them.

Opposite element=double damage, 2x points for destruction including bosses.
Same element=half damage, half points for destruction, getting hit by an elemental bullet of the same type doesn't kill you but reduces your shot and magic power.

Also back on the topic, how hard is completing Sword when you actually focus on the set? The extra firepower might prove to be really helpful in a 1CC attempt.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:50 am 


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Bananamatic wrote:
Also back on the topic, how hard is completing Sword when you actually focus on the set? The extra firepower might prove to be really helpful in a 1CC attempt.


I don't know who started this rumor but items don't affect your ship at all - they're just for scoring. At one point I tested if shoes set made your ship faster but it doesn't.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:55 am 


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I've been told that shoes don't affect it but sword and armor apparently do...I guess there is only one way to find out.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:05 am 


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If armor did then you'd see the players in the Dimahoo superplays getting hit once and surviving, but that doesn't happen.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:39 am 


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Doesn't armor reduce the hitbox size though?


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:31 pm 


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Hm, I thought armor was related to a protection of sorts. If it does reduce hitbox, I'm not sure how to test that as it's small enough already (it's just a small glowing orb after all). Maybe recording the exact moment when you complete the set and see if it shrinks?

I still find this whole "sets affecting your ship" business very unlikely though. If something like that was in the game, some sort of visual cue would be in there (an "Attack UP" or "Defense UP" message or something) and all sets would have some effect on your ship, not only 2 out of 15 sets. Just doesn't make sense.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:32 pm 


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Okay, forget it then. Sword is hard to complete anyways.

Anyways, I got a lucky run where I got to Gigafacer with 2 lives and 4 bombs...and blew it all on the first phase. That should've been a clear :?

Also tried Grimlen some more and he seems like a completely different character compared to others...is it just me or does he charge the gauge faster? And how do his options/shot/bomb compare to others? His shot with both options hitting seems damn strong but the bomb seems somewhat weaker than the spell bomb/laser even at point blank.

How do you complete sets with him anyways, is he the same as other chars except much stronger+piercing or is it all about grabbing complete sets while the scythe goes back down?

Either way, I'll try scoring with him later.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:07 am 


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Ruldra wrote:
I don't know who started this rumor but items don't affect your ship at all - they're just for scoring.


I might be partially responsible for that. I was told that the only sets that would affect the character in any way is sword and armor. Supposedly, a full armor set only decreases the hitbox size vertically (like in Batrider/Garegga). I could very well be wrong though.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:13 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
Also tried Grimlen some more and he seems like a completely different character compared to others...is it just me or does he charge the gauge faster? And how do his options/shot/bomb compare to others? His shot with both options hitting seems damn strong but the bomb seems somewhat weaker than the spell bomb/laser even at point blank.

How do you complete sets with him anyways, is he the same as other chars except much stronger+piercing or is it all about grabbing complete sets while the scythe goes back down?


I haven't played much with other characters but I think Grimlen has the fastest charge. And his bomb is actually absurdly powerful at pointblank range (one bomb with the proper element is enough to kill Dratrion and puts Dribling at near-death). Of course, all that comes at the cost of speed. I still don't know how it's possible to survive Infernon with such a slow ship.

What I like the most about him is the scythe, though. One sweep will kill anything in its path and makes collecting items much easier as they all come together, rather than spread out all over the screen like with Karte. Plus it's so easy to aim with it.

I'm a bit busy nowadays but I'll try putting up an INP sometime so you can see how I use him.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:23 pm 


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From what I played Infernon didn't seem any harder for Grimlen...if anything, he seemed easier apart from the double bullet spam which is an autobomb.

The red side's bullet spam is also something I wouldn't dodge like that on a real run...but it's doable.

Grimlen also excels at breaking Cypider's body for another special without any extra tricks.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:49 pm 


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Err...forget about the INP, looks like I completely forgot how to play Dimahoo :oops: Reached stage 4 with like 3,5 mil and only 4 sets. At this point you can do much better than me.

Bananamatic wrote:
From what I played Infernon didn't seem any harder for Grimlen...if anything, he seemed easier apart from the double bullet spam which is an autobomb.


How do you dodge Infernon's first attack? You can go through the space between bullets but it's very risky. Even on practice sessions I can't do it consistently.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:02 pm 


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Ruldra wrote:
Err...forget about the INP, looks like I completely forgot how to play Dimahoo :oops: Reached stage 4 with like 3,5 mil and only 4 sets. At this point you can do much better than me.

Bananamatic wrote:
From what I played Infernon didn't seem any harder for Grimlen...if anything, he seemed easier apart from the double bullet spam which is an autobomb.


How do you dodge Infernon's first attack? You can go through the space between bullets but it's very risky. Even on practice sessions I can't do it consistently.

how I fight him, mid/higher rank(he doesn't seem to be really different on different rank levels though)

The way I dodge it is slighly difficult to explain, so here's a picture:
Image
The red line is the dodge you'd usually think about doing first but there's a chance of clipping the small bullets even with the faster ships.

The green line shows the path which is easy even for Grimlen - sidestep the huge bullets aimed at you and then pass through easily with no other shots to bump into.
The way he shoots it and the difficulty of the attack seems to be dependent on your position and the way he is flying...just remember to stay at the bottom all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:09 pm 


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I just sharply move away from the bullet stream to create an opening to quickly pass through. Can't say if it's possible with the slower ships though.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:53 pm 


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Thanks for the video Bananamatic, that will come in handy when I get back to the game.

Voxbox wrote:
I just sharply move away from the bullet stream to create an opening to quickly pass through. Can't say if it's possible with the slower ships though.


That works with Miyamoto, but not with Grimlen.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:14 pm 


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Nice score Bananamatic, I've been watching your videos on youtube. You broke the magic 10 million barrier. I haven't been able to crack it yet. I started toying with this game again but it's been frustrating. A lot of 7-8 million point runs. And tons of restarts. I wish there was an option to change the enemy bullet color to something neon-colored since they blend in with the items so well.

For sets I've been shooting for:

Stage 1 - Axe set. If I don't get it, I restart, but it's pretty easy now. Sometimes food/shoes complete accidentally. Usually a x2 at the end of the stage. If I haven't completed food, I usually have only 1 piece to get and I get it from the boss to complete the set.
Stage 2 - If shoes haven't randomly completed in the stage I usually have 1 slot left and get it from a part on Dratrion's wings. Sometimes I'll go for the staff-set on the ships but lately I've been avoiding them so I can go into level 3 with a 0-bomb meter and 4 bombs for the legend items. I know it's possible to complete swords on this level but I haven't found a reliable way. I attempt to get both legend items from the propellers on top of the boss. I can always get 1. On a good run I get both.
Stage 3 - If I'm lucky I can finish armor and helmet on the mid-boss - but it's a luck-shot for me if I've collected enough by then. If I have 1 or 2 staff slots left, I use the mini boss to finish them off (turrets attached to side of the main battery). Sometimes the accessory-set completes. Usually a x4 or x5 at the end of this level. I know the drills on the end boss drop swords so I make sure to grab at least 1 that I need here. I go for no legend items on this boss.
Stage 4 - I have zero strategy for this and rely on luck to complete anything else. I usually can't make it here with 4 bombs so the chests don't do much for me. I also usually screw up the bomb meter when the water dragons pop out so I tend to miss a lot of points on there too. Somewhere between x4 or x5 on a typical run, x6 or x7 on a good run.
Stage 5 - Zero strategy here too. Are there any legend items? I need a scoring strategy for this stage. x7 if I have a good run.
Stage 6 - Never made it here. Infernon is still my nemesis.

A typical run for me yields full sets in order of difficulty:
- Axe
- Food
- Shoes
- Staff
- Armor
- Helmet
- Sword

I've NEVER completed the ring or treasure set.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:10 pm 


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I got only 4 sets on the 11m run...I actually stopped for a few months because I was practicing with Grimlen and then my keyboard started screwing up.

Stage5 has legends on the turtles, I believe there are 2 sets of them. Also the legend swords from both bombers...there is probably more though.


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 Post subject: Re: RQ: Dimahoo rank system
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:09 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
I got only 4 sets on the 11m run...I actually stopped for a few months because I was practicing with Grimlen and then my keyboard started screwing up.

Stage5 has legends on the turtles, I believe there are 2 sets of them. Also the legend swords from both bombers...there is probably more though.


That's incredible that you can milk that many points with only x4. I played a handful of runs today and got x6 and x7 on a few of them and I still only amounted ~6 million points, though I my best run was only part of the way through level 5. I'm terrible at those damned legend requirements. (4 bombs or no bomb-meter).
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