Facepalm: Can someone help me out with an RGB sync issue :(

[Skykid]

So, I bought this lead just the other day for my Panasonic Q:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1257wt_907

I don't know if I'm missing a trick here, but is there any reason any of you can think of why this lead wouldn't work in RGB through an XRGB2+?
Basically, it's plugged into the XRGB2+ by both scart (via an EU->JP adaptor of course), and, as is required, also connected to the composite connections on the back of the Q to the composite connectors on the back of the XRGB2+. If I switch the XRGB2+ to composite video it picks up the sound and picture fine, but as you can imagine, looks terribly inferior to true RGB. But when I switch the box to RGB, I get a flickering soundless image scrolling down the screen. I can see the image looks crisp, so I know it's reading the RGB scart, but try as I might I can't stabilise it at all. I know the lead's all hooked up properly as I've got composite running ok, but RGB just isn't happening. I thought I might need to switch the box to 47khz, but I'm not sure how to do that. Any ideas?
Thanks for the help once again gents.

(Edit: plugged directly into the TV via both scart and composite works fine, except the picture is horribly blurry being an LCD and all.)

[Fudoh]

and, as is required, also connected to the composite connections on the back of the Q to the composite connectors on the back of the XRGB2+.

why would that be required ? If you mean the analogue Multi-AV plug of the RGB cable, that's just for audio....

You definitely don't need the 47khz option of the XRGB (That's for changing the XRGB's output to a terrible 1024x768 signal).

I didn't have a Q, but I had my gamecube running on the XRGB-2+ this way for some (short) time.

I know it doesn't help your problem (or your motivation), but getting a VGA cable (modded from a Nintendo GC D-Terminal cable) for the Q makes much more sense. Most NTSC software supports 480p anyway, so you're just putting effort in deinterlacing 480i to 480p using the XRGB while native 480p is superior to that in any way.

[speedlolita]

Lolwat.

You don't need to bother with the composite. That cable takes a GC composite cable and adds the sound aspect of it, and composite to the RGB pins. In theory just plugging the SCART into your EU to JP SCART adaptor and turning it on should work perfectly.

If not, maybe it's wired up wrong.. Maybe composite on the wrong pin or something.

I just use D Terminal straight on my XRGB-2+ for my Cube. heh

[Strider77]

Out of curiosity why did/are you guys using the gamecude with the XRGB anyways?

Skykid.... why not just use component straight into your TV and enable 480p natively?

[speedlolita]

Because my "retro" TV is a PC monitor.

My "HDTV" is another PC monitor, but a 1080p LCD one - so no component.

[Strider77]

Your using it as a transcoder then... gotcha.

[speedlolita]

Basically yeah.

I have light scanlines too because I'm a lil mad.

[Skykid]

God, I don't know.

I just saw the listing and figured that'll make the Q look neat and it's already pre-modded. I don't know how good the quality is on a D-terminal cable plugged into the XRGB2+, so I didn't really consider it.

Strider, you're suggesting getting an unmodded component cable and plugging it into the TV directly, and Fudoh, you're saying that a D-termial modded into VGA is another option - any idea which one gives the better picture?

Either way, looks like this is going back, because as Speed mentioned, there's no reason it shouldn't just work as standard - but it doesn't. Even without and composite audio/video hooked up, it's still rolling based on RGB alone.

This is weak.

Thanks for the advice chaps, giving me a little more info on the best Q -> LCD TV option as fielded above would be much appreciated (I'm assuming both would give a superior picture to this RGB scart mod were it actually stable?)

[neorichieb1971]

The scart lead for the NTSC cube is totally different from the PAL one.

The Qube is an NTSC cube and did not support RGB as standard. However some guy found a way to get the RGB lines from the digital output and took the audio from the analog output. It was possible to get RGB and audio this way but you had to build the cable yourself or get someone to build it for you.

The PAL cubes supported RGB natively and SCART cables were made for them. But the PAL UK SCART cables will not work on the Qube or NTSC cubes. So if your trying to get RGB from a Qube with a scart lead that only uses the analog AV output, it won't work.

The NTSC RGB SCART cables were extremely expensive. About £50 from Ravengames in London.

You would definitely be better off getting a component cable and D-terminal adapter. It would be cheaper and probably result in a better picture.

[neorichieb1971]

£59.99 Rgb scart lead for Japanese & U.S.A machines Inc Q machine - Click here for details
£9.99 Rgb scart lead for U.K machines
£12.99 Rgb scart lead for U.K machines with x 2 audio cables
£12.99 Super VHS * These do not work on U.K GameCubes
£9.99 AV
OOS Component
OOS Digital monitor
OOS VGA box

Thats Ravengames price list for Gamecube cables.

[SGGG2]

Out of curiosity why did/are you guys using the gamecude with the XRGB anyways?

At 1080p in B1, the XRGB-3 (can't comment on the others) is actually a very nice scaler for 480p signals. You won't be able to tell with the crappy A/D conversion, I was totally shocked at the difference in quality when I chained the XSelect before the XRGB. PS2 and Xbox look fantastic, for some reason GC still looks not good on my setup (looks terrible wired directly into the XRGB)

On some games 480i scanlines actually look rather good.


Gradius V @ 480p > X-Select > XRGB-3, B0 @ 1080p

[Skykid]

£59.99 Rgb scart lead for Japanese & U.S.A machines Inc Q machine - Click here for details
£9.99 Rgb scart lead for U.K machines
£12.99 Rgb scart lead for U.K machines with x 2 audio cables
£12.99 Super VHS * These do not work on U.K GameCubes
£9.99 AV
OOS Component
OOS Digital monitor
OOS VGA box

Thats Ravengames price list for Gamecube cables.

I'm pretty sure that at least as far as the seller of the lead is concerned, it's Panasonic Q compatible (that's the title and description of his listing.)
£59.99 is too much for a made up lead which is probably the same as the one I have here - especially if I can get a better picture via D-terminal or straight up component - just waiting for one of the chaps to recommend one as more worthwhile than the other so I can start the hunt.

Chaps, your expert advice would be?

[speedlolita]

Up to you. D Terminal IS component in japan so your choice. I got a D Terminal as XRGB-2+ has it natively. Also the D Terminal cable I got was £24.. :3

[Skykid]

Up to you. D Terminal IS component in japan so your choice. I got a D Terminal as XRGB-2+ has it natively. Also the D Terminal cable I got was £24.. :3

Where can I get one for that price?

So you're saying the quality is equal, despite the D-termial having the benefit of running through the XRGB2+ (I have the same upscaler)?

Thanks for the help man.

[speedlolita]

Correct, just different interface. Exactly the same video.

I got lucky on UK eBay with that price. Both comp + dterm cables are £40+ on eBay.

Someone on AO had a component cable for £40, that could be run through the comp to d term adaptor you have.

[Fudoh]

Quality D-Terminal vs. VGA:

D-Terminal is just component with another connector. With an unmodded component or D-Terminal cable the Cube supports 480i and 480p. BUT with a XRGB2+ you can't use 480p through this cable and you probably can't connect it anywhere else.

VGA on other hand is fixed to 480p which is great in quality terms, but you won't be able to play the (few) games which only support 480i.

Best option (but of course the most complicated and most expensive one): get a component cable (not D-Terminal), use the XRGB2+ (with component to D-Terminal adapter) for 480i games and use a transcoder (YUV to VGA) for 480p titles. There are good transcoders out there for about $45.

[Skykid]

Correct, just different interface. Exactly the same video.

I got lucky on UK eBay with that price. Both comp + dterm cables are £40+ on eBay.

Someone on AO had a component cable for £40, that could be run through the comp to d term adaptor you have.

Yep, he wants £40 + £10 shipping, and ckong is selling a D-Terminal for 40 euros + shipping. So there's a choice there (if they've both not yet sold). I'm guessing that the component is the more versatile choice because it can be used in the TV directly or via the XRGB2+ with the D terminal adaptor.
Of course I could get the D-terminal lead modded to VGA, but as Fudoh says, it's extra expense all round - I don't want that and I don't like the idea of any more stuff.

Looks like component is the answer.

[fagin]

So, I bought this lead just the other day for my Panasonic Q:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1257wt_907

I don't know if I'm missing a trick here, but is there any reason any of you can think of why this lead wouldn't work in RGB through an XRGB2+?
Basically, it's plugged into the XRGB2+ by both scart (via an EU->JP adaptor of course), and, as is required, also connected to the composite connections on the back of the Q to the composite connectors on the back of the XRGB2+. If I switch the XRGB2+ to composite video it picks up the sound and picture fine, but as you can imagine, looks terribly inferior to true RGB. But when I switch the box to RGB, I get a flickering soundless image scrolling down the screen. I can see the image looks crisp, so I know it's reading the RGB scart, but try as I might I can't stabilise it at all. I know the lead's all hooked up properly as I've got composite running ok, but RGB just isn't happening. I thought I might need to switch the box to 47khz, but I'm not sure how to do that. Any ideas?
Thanks for the help once again gents.

(Edit: plugged directly into the TV via both scart and composite works fine, except the picture is horribly blurry being an LCD and all.)

When you plug it direct (SCART) into a TV are you sure it is displaying RGB?

Assuming it is, it sounds like a sync issue as you suggest. You may not have the composite ground pin on your Gamecube (SCART end) wired up. Open the SCART plug up and see if you have anything connected to PIN 17. If not, solder a wire across from PIN 4.

[Skykid]

So, I bought this lead just the other day for my Panasonic Q:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1257wt_907

I don't know if I'm missing a trick here, but is there any reason any of you can think of why this lead wouldn't work in RGB through an XRGB2+?
Basically, it's plugged into the XRGB2+ by both scart (via an EU->JP adaptor of course), and, as is required, also connected to the composite connections on the back of the Q to the composite connectors on the back of the XRGB2+. If I switch the XRGB2+ to composite video it picks up the sound and picture fine, but as you can imagine, looks terribly inferior to true RGB. But when I switch the box to RGB, I get a flickering soundless image scrolling down the screen. I can see the image looks crisp, so I know it's reading the RGB scart, but try as I might I can't stabilise it at all. I know the lead's all hooked up properly as I've got composite running ok, but RGB just isn't happening. I thought I might need to switch the box to 47khz, but I'm not sure how to do that. Any ideas?
Thanks for the help once again gents.

(Edit: plugged directly into the TV via both scart and composite works fine, except the picture is horribly blurry being an LCD and all.)

When you plug it direct (SCART) into a TV are you sure it is displaying RGB?

Assuming it is, it sounds like a sync issue as you suggest. You may not have the composite ground pin on your Gamecube (SCART end) wired up. Open the SCART plug up and see if you have anything connected to PIN 17. If not, solder a wire across from PIN 4.

Hey there. I don't want to tamper with it until I've heard from the ebay seller. In the event he won't take it back then I'll consider that (I don't think he has much choice though.)
If you buy something you expect it to work, not need a repair. Then again my trouble with any third party leads recently makes me think I should never stray from official stuff again.
As for the picture when plugged into the TV directly, it's not great, I'll try another configuration today and see if that works any better.

[fagin]

So, I bought this lead just the other day for my Panasonic Q:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1257wt_907

I don't know if I'm missing a trick here, but is there any reason any of you can think of why this lead wouldn't work in RGB through an XRGB2+?
Basically, it's plugged into the XRGB2+ by both scart (via an EU->JP adaptor of course), and, as is required, also connected to the composite connections on the back of the Q to the composite connectors on the back of the XRGB2+. If I switch the XRGB2+ to composite video it picks up the sound and picture fine, but as you can imagine, looks terribly inferior to true RGB. But when I switch the box to RGB, I get a flickering soundless image scrolling down the screen. I can see the image looks crisp, so I know it's reading the RGB scart, but try as I might I can't stabilise it at all. I know the lead's all hooked up properly as I've got composite running ok, but RGB just isn't happening. I thought I might need to switch the box to 47khz, but I'm not sure how to do that. Any ideas?
Thanks for the help once again gents.

(Edit: plugged directly into the TV via both scart and composite works fine, except the picture is horribly blurry being an LCD and all.)

When you plug it direct (SCART) into a TV are you sure it is displaying RGB?

Assuming it is, it sounds like a sync issue as you suggest. You may not have the composite ground pin on your Gamecube (SCART end) wired up. Open the SCART plug up and see if you have anything connected to PIN 17. If not, solder a wire across from PIN 4.

Hey there. I don't want to tamper with it until I've heard from the ebay seller. In the event he won't take it back then I'll consider that (I don't think he has much choice though.)
If you buy something you expect it to work, not need a repair. Then again my trouble with any third party leads recently makes me think I should never stray from official stuff again.
As for the picture when plugged into the TV directly, it's not great, I'll try another configuration today and see if that works any better.

This is not about repairing it mate..... assuming you can actually confirm the feed your LCD is seeing is infact RGB. It is quite obvious if it is RGB and not composite or s-video in my opinion.

I can't see you invalidating the warranty by unscrewing the shoulder end and opening the SCART sheaf to have a look. I have had to re-wire a number of my SCART leads recently. Not because they don't work with a LCD or CRT in RGB mode, but because my syncblaster to VGA needs a fully wired composite for sync purposes. What I am saying is that the lead maybe fine for RGB in to SCART, but may not have the composite sync fully wired..... as a RGB SCART lead to CRT or LCD it does just fine.

[Strider77]

Yeah, honestly skykid I think component directly into your TV is the best option. All the games I own have 480p support, your collection might not though, but either way you can use component with the XRGB and your TV.

That's what I do with the PS2 since it passes through 480p (the XRGB3 that is). That was a big motivator for me when getting the XRGB3.

I forget a lot of you guys use the B0 mode on the XRGB3. My TV does 480p and 1080i natively so I never use it.

As for the picture when plugged into the TV directly, it's not great, I'll try another configuration today and see if that works any better.

This may sound like a silly question but you ARE enabling the 480p output on the GC by holding down "B" while booting up a game? You will get a prompt asking if you would like to enable progressive scan. This should only have to be done once.

[fagin]

Yeah, honestly skykid I think component directly into your TV is the best option. All the games I own have 480p support, your collection might not though, but either way you can use component with the XRGB and your TV.

That's what I do with the PS2 since it passes through 480p (the XRGB3 that is). That was a big motivator for me when getting the XRGB3.

I forget a lot of you guys use the B0 mode on the XRGB3. My TV does 480p and 1080i natively so I never use it.

As for the picture when plugged into the TV directly, it's not great, I'll try another configuration today and see if that works any better.

This may sound like a silly question but you ARE enabling the 480p output on the GC by holding down "B" while booting up a game? You will get a prompt asking if you would like to enable progressive scan. This should only have to be done once.

Not sure that is relevant mate as he is using a SCART connection..... you won't get 480p out of that connection method.

[Skykid]

This may sound like a silly question but you ARE enabling the 480p output on the GC by holding down "B" while booting up a game? You will get a prompt asking if you would like to enable progressive scan. This should only have to be done once.

Hey Strider, let me go through these one by one.

The GC image is rolling and flicker via the RGB scart prior to booting a game - on the menu screens. It appears to be an issue with the lead full stop. I also plugged it into viletim's adaptor to try it on a CRT: does the same thing.

Component lead is now purchased, so that's on the way.

Do you know which games don't support component on the GC? I didn't realise there were some that didn't?

I forget a lot of you guys use the B0 mode on the XRGB3. My TV does 480p and 1080i natively so I never use it.

I don't have the XRGB3, but the XRGB2+. What's a B0 mode??

The scart lead causing issues is going back, the ebay seller has agreed a refund.

[Strider77]

Do you know which games don't support component on the GC? I didn't realise there were some that didn't?

They all support componet, just some games don't do 480p; only 480i. When you get that component cable just plug it directly into your TV and be SURE to ENABLE 480p when booting the game up. It will send the same resolution that the XRGB2+ sends your TV, so it doesn't need the XRGB.

Put in F-Zero in 480p, it looks great. I don't know what ones don't do 480p, all of mine do.

What's a B0 mode??

The XRGB3 can function just like the older units did (XRGB2 and 2+), a line doubler in other words. The XRGB3 has a scaler also, you can choose different resolution that you'd like to have the image scaled to; like 1080p for instance. Just no scanline option in this mode (B0) though.

[Skykid]

Put in F-Zero in 480p, it looks great. I don't know what ones don't do 480p, all of mine do.

That will be the first game I'll be testing when it arrives. It looks good enough already, can't wait to see it in 480p.

So tonight I did some digging, pulled out my XRGB2+ box and found all the adaptors, and did some testing on the PS2. I used one 2D game (Hyper SF2 Anniversary) and God of War.

I bought a PS2 Euro scart, and unhooked the component cable from my PS3 and ran it through the D-terminal connector.

Here's what I found:

- Component direct to TV: Super bright and colourful. Looks great but lacks the scanline crispness offered by the XRGB2+, making it a little too soft for my tastes.

- RGB thru XRGB2+: Looks nice. I find that on SFII there is a tiny juddering of the image that can be a little hard on the eyes. It's a touch darker than the component, but the images are crisp.

- Component via D-terminal thru XRGB2+: So this is the best mode, as Strider recommended. It's sharp and seems to make otherwise pixelly textures (in GOW) look a lot better. This may be the darkest setup of all though (moreso that RGB) before any adjustments are made - but it's definitely the crispest, if only by a slight bit. It definitely produces slightly different colour tones to RGB though, but you really have to look carefully to notice.

[Fudoh]

SF2 Anniversary is a 480i title, isn't it ? You should disable the XRGB's scanline option for 480i titles. This makes the picture considerably brighter. Use a SLG3000 instead and you get proper "240p scanlines" for both 240p and 480i titles.

[Skykid]

SF2 Anniversary is a 480i title, isn't it ? You should disable the XRGB's scanline option for 480i titles. This makes the picture considerably brighter. Use a SLG3000 instead and you get proper "240p scanlines" for both 240p and 480i titles.

Ah, I see. Okay, I'll try that, thanks Fudoh (I do like the scanlines though, I just don't have room for more upscalers. )

However, what's the reason that standard def systems such as the PCE, SFC and Saturn look sooo much better than 2D games piped through the PS2 in component?

For example, Saturn bomberman is an absolute dream via RGB -> XRGB2+. Crisp, colourful, crystal clear.
...The PS2 doesn't come close no matter what setup I tried. Does the XRGB2+ just handle standard def a lot better than anything else, or is it something to do with the PS2 in particular?

[speedlolita]

Your Saturn will be outputting 240p. There's less pixels so the image will look nicer using a line-doubling device imo.

For example, at the moment I'm playing SF3 3rd Strike on Dreamcast. If you hold L + Start on boot - the game turn to 240p mode - it normally goes to 480i mode. There's a massive difference in quality between them.

If you have like, ESPGaluda that has a 240p mode.

[Skykid]

Your Saturn will be outputting 240p. There's less pixels so the image will look nicer using a line-doubling device imo.

For example, at the moment I'm playing SF3 3rd Strike on Dreamcast. If you hold L + Start on boot - the game turn to 240p mode - it normally goes to 480i mode. There's a massive difference in quality between them.

If you have like, ESPGaluda that has a 240p mode.

Ah, I see, that makes sense. Funny, been playing games for this long and only in the last few years have I taken to image optimising (when you're a kid it's all CRT's, so we had it better than we realised.)

So some games have 240p modes? The mind boggles, I never knew that. Is there a definitive list somewhere? I do indeed have espgaluda for my PS2, how do you put it into 240p?

Thanks folks.

[neorichieb1971]

TATE is default 240p I believe. Same with most TATE games.