Starting an arcade

[RNGmaster]

I live in Seattle, Washington, where I've been having shmupmeets with a small community in a local game store. However, the manager of the arcade machines has had some trouble with the store ownership, and they've evicted him and ordered him to pack up the machines. I would dearly love to start up a new arcade, but unfortunately, such things come with a price. None of us in Seattle here are money wizards or experts on real estate, and we would enjoy any adive or donations you guys would be willing to part with.

I know Prometheus has a friend who started an arcade, and there's no better way to get help than to learn from the masters. Being able to correspond with him (either directly or through Prometheus, since my French isn't exactly up to snuff) would be a huge help.

I have a few main questions:
Would a Japanese-style arcade be a profitable venture?
If so, what advice can you give us?
If not, how can we make it profitable?
And am I totally crazy for wanting to start a new arcade?
Here's our thread for reference.

[dpful]

Man, I wish I was still in the arcade going out of business.
Is there anything we you could do with the space? I don't think it's really possible to make quarters into even a single months rents unless you've got some special deal or something. I sure hope it can be worked out though. 1 more arcade in the world is a big deal.
As for the Japanese cabs, I cant even imagine paying one off.

[Dave_K.]

I have a few main questions:
Would a Japanese-style arcade be a profitable venture?
If so, what advice can you give us?
If not, how can we make it profitable?
And am I totally crazy for wanting to start a new arcade?
Here's our thread for reference.

First off, sorry to hear the news. Second, you'll be better off asking people for garage space than donations to open an arcade. There must be someone in your group that doesn't live with their parents, and can make room in a garage to host your meets.

[drauch]

I have a few main questions:
Would a Japanese-style arcade be a profitable venture?
If so, what advice can you give us?
If not, how can we make it profitable?
And am I totally crazy for wanting to start a new arcade?
Here's our thread for reference.

First off, sorry to hear the news. Second, you'll be better off asking people for garage space than donations to open an arcade. There must be someone in your group that doesn't live with their parents, and can make room in a garage to host your meets.

Totally agree. Don't open an arcade. As much as such a thing would be excellent to open, it probably won't last. Unless you have 25+ machines and plenty of money to rent adequate space.

[DragonInstall]

Arcades are dying. I wouldn't advise you to open one. Even in Cali arcades are on life support and the only thing that keeps them alive, are competitive fighting games. SSF4 AE machines are like 15-20k?

[Demetori]

Just open up a store purely with those Japanese photo booth things. Cha-ching~

[bobbyconover]

I live in Seattle, Washington, where I've been having shmupmeets with a small community in a local game store. However, the manager of the arcade machines has had some trouble with the store ownership, and they've evicted him and ordered him to pack up the machines.

Ok, first off, this is totally untrue. I chose not to renew my licenses and continue on for a second year because of various disputes/disagreements, but they definitely didn't "evict me." The very short version is that I got hooked into the arrangement through a single employee of the store whose vision for the arcade was very much in line with mine, and who made a lot of claims and promises that he ultimately couldn't keep. He ended up essentially ending his involvement with the arcade halfway through the year. I was left dealing with people who didn't seem to want to follow through with our original vision, had zero personal connection with me, and seemed to have a total lack of desire to make such a connection or to try to keep me happy. They wanted me to pretty strictly be an arcade op, and I wanted to be a partner of sorts in the arcade, as was the way my role was originally pitched to me. In the end it came down to a case of not wanting to invest too much time and money with people who I felt fundamentally incompatible with. After having many doubts for a long time, which culminated in an unproductive and downright insulting series of exchanges, I decided I should try again elsewhere rather than continue to pour my efforts into a location that I wasn't really happy with.

I'm still planning to do that. The entire contents of the arcade are safe and sound, and I'm looking into various options for a future location with better lasting power. I don't want donations! If I do end up going down that road, I'll do it through Kickstarter or something similar.

Surprisingly, I've found that arcades aren't as dead as everyone claims. People were extremely excited about the arcade overall and many many times, particularly during events and the brief period of later weekend hours, the place was packed. Earnings weren't spectacular overall, but they weren't bad. And with something on the side (ice cream? food and drink? beer? bubble tea?) frequent events and a solid game lineup there is still potential to do well. Right now it's just a matter of finding the perfect people to launch such a venture with, or the perfect location to attach myself to. I have a couple of solid leads but I'm still open to whatever! The sticking point here is the specifically Japanese slant -- I've gotten many offers of locations to operate pinball machines and classic games out of, but not as many who are into the big-ass row of candy cabs, BEMANI games, Bishi Bashi, etc. That said, I've barely begun looking. I'll be much more aggressively pursuing my options once the new year rolls around.

[Elixir]

I live in Seattle, Washington, where I've been having shmupmeets with a small community in a local game store. However, the manager of the arcade machines has had some trouble with the store ownership, and they've evicted him and ordered him to pack up the machines. I would dearly love to start up a new arcade, but unfortunately, such things come with a price. None of us in Seattle here are money wizards or experts on real estate, and we would enjoy any adive or donations you guys would be willing to part with.

I know Prometheus has a friend who started an arcade, and there's no better way to get help than to learn from the masters. Being able to correspond with him (either directly or through Prometheus, since my French isn't exactly up to snuff) would be a huge help.

I have a few main questions:
Would a Japanese-style arcade be a profitable venture?
If so, what advice can you give us?
If not, how can we make it profitable?
And am I totally crazy for wanting to start a new arcade?
Here's our thread for reference.

Aren't you like, 16?

[Drum]

My 'advice' (read: uninformed opinion) would be to not start one. But if you're determined, I can see a great arcade that's a mixture of playable museum (with classic games in their original cabs and a history lesson in photos/memorabilia/vidya kitch) as well as a Japanese-style modern arcade + merch (tees, toys, import games etc) doing well in a big-ish city - preferably one with an annual nerdcon you could set a booth up in. Beyond that I don't see a future. Like bobbyconover said, you need some other way of supplementing income.

[Dave_K.]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=11301

[RNGmaster]

Ok, first off, this is totally untrue. I chose not to renew my licenses and continue on for a second year because of various disputes/disagreements, but they definitely didn't "evict me." The very short version is that I got hooked into the arrangement through a single employee of the store whose vision for the arcade was very much in line with mine, and who made a lot of claims and promises that he ultimately couldn't keep. He ended up essentially ending his involvement with the arcade halfway through the year. I was left dealing with people who didn't seem to want to follow through with our original vision, had zero personal connection with me, and seemed to have a total lack of desire to make such a connection or to try to keep me happy. They wanted me to pretty strictly be an arcade op, and I wanted to be a partner of sorts in the arcade, as was the way my role was originally pitched to me. In the end it came down to a case of not wanting to invest too much time and money with people who I felt fundamentally incompatible with. After having many doubts for a long time, which culminated in an unproductive and downright insulting series of exchanges, I decided I should try again elsewhere rather than continue to pour my efforts into a location that I wasn't really happy with.

Wow, I actually didn't hear any of that. I was interested in knowing what happened behind the scenes, but I didn't want to talk about it with you since I thought it might be a sore subject.

Aren't you like, 16?

Never implied that I wasn't.

[Jockel]

16 year olds can't start arcades.
Go make a lemonade stand.

[RNGmaster]

16 year olds can't start arcades.
Go make a lemonade stand.

BUT SUGAR IS SO EXPENSIVE LOL
AND I'M TOO BUSY WITH HOMEWORK LOL

[Observer]

Just open up a store purely with those Japanese photo booth things. Cha-ching~

Purikuras... Good god, I'm translating a visual novel that had some of that...

Well, one more arcade never hurts. Or saving one. Hope it all goes well.

[Elixir]

Aren't you like, 16?

Never implied that I wasn't.

You will either need 1) rich ass parents, 2) celebrity status or 3) "connections" to start a business at that age. That said, your idea of opening an arcade isn't necessarily a bad one, but I don't think you could pull it off because:

- It isn't financially a good idea as you'd need $20-30 grand just for interior merchandise
- How many people on SRK live there? Chances are, they would be your regular customers. Fighters would generate a higher revenue due to their popularity over shmups.
- You would need to be able to import arcade boards and cabs that will at very least, break even for what you paid for them.
- You would need to continually import boards to keep up with the times, coming out of the profit generated from other games you've bought.
- If you borrow arcade cabs and boards from people, they'd want a percentage of the profit as well.

But then again I couldn't open an arcade myself either. It isn't just a matter of gathering people's cabs and selling out of a garage. At this point you'd be better off buying a cab and letting somewhere use it, so you end up generating a profit. Actually at this point you're better off not doing anything at all.

[dan76]

Open a bar/groovy cafe with a game room out back - like Shorty's (it's been a while since I was there, but that place was usually packed whenever I called in). Add some internet access, monthly competitions with prizes, stuff like that - get the place known to students.

Definitely do something where you don't have to rely on the income from the machines alone to pay the rent and give you a living.

I tried to help a mate out in my home town with a similar vision - but it just didn't work. Mainly because he wanted to veto anyone entering the place. He had a rope across the front door and wouldn't let people in he didn't like the look of. With over 20 cabs and a ton of vintage and collectible games the place was lucky to make £5 a day. Trying to actually buy anything was like getting blood from a stone, so people gave up.

Good luck.

[hamfighterx]

I live in Seattle, Washington, where I've been having shmupmeets with a small community in a local game store. However, the manager of the arcade machines has had some trouble with the store ownership, and they've evicted him and ordered him to pack up the machines. I would dearly love to start up a new arcade, but unfortunately, such things come with a price. None of us in Seattle here are money wizards or experts on real estate, and we would enjoy any adive or donations you guys would be willing to part with.

Take a trip down to Portland and check out Ground Kontrol, especially on a weekend night. THAT is the kind of thing that might work in Seattle. Honestly, I'd look seriously into the Eastside too - Bellevue has more money and turning more and more into a place people want to hang out on the weekend instead of going into Seattle, and has less competition for affordable activities (especially later night) and cheap bars. It's also probably harder to get affordable rent, but still worth some thought.

And yeah, work with SRK and think about fighting games too, that scene/tourney atmosphere would support an arcade a lot better than shooter fans. The whole community aspect of fighters lends itself better to a strong support network than the more solitary shooting genre (hi scores only go so far).

[RNGmaster]

You will either need 1) rich ass parents, 2) celebrity status or 3) "connections" to start a business at that age. That said, your idea of opening an arcade isn't necessarily a bad one...

Never implied that I was going to be the one owning or starting the arcade - that's Bobby's field. I'm just gathering ideas and financial advice. We already have about 15 cabs of various types, including some DDR machines and 1 horizontal cab for fighters/Metal Slug/Progear.

That said, the two posts above me have some really good ideas.

[gs68]

I used to want to start an arcade. One with actual variety (including shmups), not 50 million fighting games. Sadly the time of profitable arcades is long gone--it really takes an arcade full of the aforementioned fighters and little else to stay alive now. Even in Japan, arcades are slowly but surely on their way out.

[neorichieb1971]

Ask someone who owns a bar if you can put the machines in his gaff. People who drink often get curious about gaming machines and start playing regardless of their ability.

[gameoverDude]

I've kind of grown tired of fighting games mostly- I tend to give a new KOF, Tekken, or SF title a look, but new franchises in that genre outside of BlazBlue haven't grabbed me.

Here are some games I think would be good to pick from for a starting lineup.
- Sega Rambo (2008)
- House of the Dead 4
- Razing Storm (even the smaller 42" version wouldn't be bad)
- DDR X2
- Guitar Freaks XG & Drummania XG linked
- Mr. Driller G (this PCB shouldn't cost too much, you'll probably find it for $70-110)
- Aliens Extermination
- Target Terror Gold
- Terminator Salvation
- Global Arcade Classics
- Neo Geo MVS

Fighters: SSFIV Arc. Ed, Hyper SFII, Tekken 6 BR, KOF XIII, BlazBlue, SFIII 3rd Strike
Racers: Battle Gear 4, Harley Davidson King of the Road, some version of Out Run 2 (original or SP)
Shmups: DDP Daifukkatsu, Akai Katana, Ibara, Ketsui, Espgaluda II, Giga Wing

Older games: Super Sprint (3 player overhead racing game), Roadblasters sit-down, Sega Quartet 4P dedicated version, Pac-Mania, Galaga'88, Alien vs. Predator

You may want a few redemption games. I don't play them a lot myself, but they seem to be a big attraction to others- especially Deal Or No Deal.

[Demetori]

I've kind of grown tired of fighting games mostly- I tend to give a new KOF, Tekken, or SF title a look, but new franchises in that genre outside of BlazBlue haven't grabbed me.

Here are some games I think would be good to pick from for a starting lineup.
- Sega Rambo (2008)
- House of the Dead 4
- Razing Storm (even the smaller 42" version wouldn't be bad)
- DDR X2
- Guitar Freaks XG & Drummania XG linked
- Mr. Driller G (this PCB shouldn't cost too much, you'll probably find it for $70-110)
- Aliens Extermination
- Target Terror Gold
- Terminator Salvation
- Global Arcade Classics
- Neo Geo MVS

Fighters: SSFIV Arc. Ed, Hyper SFII, Tekken 6 BR, KOF XIII, BlazBlue, SFIII 3rd Strike
Racers: Battle Gear 4, Harley Davidson King of the Road, some version of Out Run 2 (original or SP)
Shmups: DDP Daifukkatsu, Akai Katana, Ibara, Ketsui, Espgaluda II, Giga Wing

Older games: Super Sprint (3 player overhead racing game), Roadblasters sit-down, Sega Quartet 4P dedicated version, Pac-Mania, Galaga'88, Alien vs. Predator

You may want a few redemption games. I don't play them a lot myself, but they seem to be a big attraction to others- especially Deal Or No Deal.

The dude is right, over here in New Zealand most people end up playing redemption games now, if it's not fighting games.

[EPS21]

Don't forget about pinall too! Bobby is a big pinball fan and that scene is pretty large here apparently, leaps and bounds more than the half dozen of us into shmups anyways.

[StarCreator]

Every arcade operator I've talked to has said that redemption games (whether of the ticket or simple crane game variety) have always been the biggest draws. The only one I know of that didn't have any in his arcade, would have loved to have him if they weren't illegal where he had set up.

So, to that end, if you have the space for them and they're permissible in whatever jurisdiction you're in, basketball and skeeball games that spit tickets out would be great attractions for casual passersby.

[kemical]

Hey, there's a person on TIGsource ( Dragonmaw ) who's wanting to get an Indie game arcade going, I'm not sure if regular arcade games would be part of that, he hasn't mentioned it, so it could go against his ideas for what he wants to do, but it seems like the more people who can get behind anything arcade-like in the area the better our chances are. I know BobbyConover has been in contact with him too, I'm not sure what is going on currently though, other than Dragonmaw planning a kickstarter soon.
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=16106.0

Maybe you could contact him and see what he is thinking and if you could help out. It's tough getting an arcade going when all it's got going for it is the arcade game aspect (IMO), PinkGorilla's selection of games was a pretty nice thing we had but personally it wasn't exactly the type of place I wanted to go and hang out in. Ground Kontrol and Shorty's are good examples, maybe even Georgetown Liquor Co qualifies a bit, but those are all more than just a room full of some arcade machines.

I know I probably have my own ideas on how something like this should be done, I feel like if there was a venue that catered to having indie games on display in an arcade setting (from local devs too), a cafe with the promise of a liquor license, and space for local musicians to do cheap shows along with displaying local artist's work, well it seems like it would be pretty fitting to have a selection of regular arcade machines off in the corner too, without going overboard to where someone feels like they are in a gameworks when they aren't the type who would ever think of going to gameworks.

Babycastles is a good example IMO of a venue trying to do good for indie games, they aren't setup to earn profits from playing the games though, I really don't know how that would affect the reception of the place. Would you go somewhere to pay a max of 25 cents to play Super Crate Box or a round of Nidhogg?? I would but when I think of back when arcades were vibrant, it might limit my willingness to give other indie games a try on display, I'd start comparing games to see what grabbed my attention more or looked more worthwhile, rather than giving them all somewhat equal observation/playtime.
In the case of Dragonmaw's idea maybe it would also work to make each machine partially function as a split donation box to the creator of the indie game and the arcade, but then you might not be getting any income from the games, I guess really it just needs to be tried to see what happens, people might be more willing to drop some quarters to play games they know are "current" indie-created and not perceived as just some old, out of date arcade games that aren't thought of as culturally relevant anymore.

I think the location would have to be inviting though and seem active, regularly book events, anything from an opening night for some artists work, first playable unveiling of a new indie game, or some shows... the more relevant the content to the gamer type / penny arcade readers / 80's kids / chiptune listeners / art-minded / non-mainstream / etc the better. Actual location is important too, I have no idea what rent/leases could be like in different areas, but a look at the different art-walks in Seattle offers a general idea of places with some good foot traffic, I certainly wouldn't want this place tucked away in a strip mall parking lot of Renton or Lake City, despite how affordable rent might be.

There are a lot of game developers around Seattle, a lot of gamers, it seems like Seattle and the surrounding areas are lacking a local spot for this sort of thing...
I think it is definitely possible, there are a bunch of tiny lesser-known venues in Seattle that keep themselves going just from booking local artists, I think if we had the same but with the gamer-edge it could do well.

*edit* also pinball is a good point, although I'm not sure if you'd want to do that and go up against Shorty's, they already have the pinball thing under control, what I don't like about the place is they don't have the types of arcade games I want to play.

[RNGmaster]

There are a lot of game developers around Seattle, a lot of gamers, it seems like Seattle and the surrounding areas are lacking a local spot for this sort of thing...
I think it is definitely possible, there are a bunch of tiny lesser-known venues in Seattle that keep themselves going just from booking local artists, I think if we had the same but with the gamer-edge it could do well.

*edit* also pinball is a good point, although I'm not sure if you'd want to do that and go up against Shorty's, they already have the pinball thing under control, what I don't like about the place is they don't have the types of arcade games I want to play.

I love the proposal of a meeting place for Seattle's game culture, not just an arcade. If we could get our cabs in, that would be a great way to indoctrinate the pretentious indie set with the bullet-hell gospel. A place where gamers could socialize and play (and drink, possibly) would be like heaven.
I am also reminded of this.

[Drum]

If we could get our cabs in, that would be a great way to indoctrinate the pretentious indie set with the bullet-hell gospel. A place where gamers could socialize and play (and drink, possibly) would be like heaven.

Bullet hell creeps are at least as pretentious as the scarfy neckbeards on Tigsource with their boring retroplatformers. I can't tell how serious you were being so I'm not gonna get on your case tho.
That indie arcade idea is great though, and gives me an idea for distributing my own game.

[RNGmaster]

I was joking. I really think it'd be best to merge ideas with the indiecade rather than trying to compete... but it's Bobby's decision.

[Dragonmaw]

Hey guys! I've actually already been talking to Bobby about this for a while. Before I went to the shmupmeet, even. If you read the TIGsource thread in full, it details some of my thoughts, but I'll paraphrase them here:

The arcade will be two things primarily: cafe and arcade. The cafe portion will probably not serve booze, at least initially, but we will have a consumption license (you can bring booze in with you). If there is a significant enough demand for booze, we'll probably set it up as a late night thing: come in after 6 PM, for example, and booze will be available.

The arcade portion, assuming Bobby agrees to go co-owner, will be a glorious amalgamation of arcade games. I'm fairly well-versed in arcade lore, although not nearly as much as Bobby, and I adore games of all different genres. The arcade portion will not be segregated by game or developer, and will be coin-op due to how ridiculously expensive Seattle's licensing laws are.

Besides those, there will ideally be a small venue for alternative and chiptune artists to come and play, if they want, and quite possibly internet as well.

The goal is to create a place that people will want to go to. A geek and indie culture place, where indie games and classics sit side-by-side in a venue where you can hear all sorts of awesome music, get drinks, and relax. A place that, personally, I want to go to. Friendly, fun, and filled with all sorts of cool games and people. And we are going to aggressively promote it as such. Ads in the Stranger and Weekly, fliers, contests, booked artists, you name it, I've planned for it. This is a place that I want to be SUCCESSFUL because, well, it's a place I want to go to!

I'll read this thread, but I recommend you post and misgivings or suggestions in the indie arcade thread. I read it more. Keep in mind that I have been discussing plans with Bobby for quite some time, though, so please don't speak for him. I'm perfectly capable of getting a hold of him myself

[Drum]

This sounds amazing. Goddamn what an awesome idea. How many games do you think you'll have, and what classics/indies are you looking at? I'd love to go down to the arcade and pop some coins into a Spelunky cab.