What will shmups be like in 10 years from now?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Ive often wondered this, what new mechaincs will come out that become a stable of the genre just like bullet hell came popular over a decade ago.

For me ive wondered if double-play could be the next evolution for the hardcore shmupper, Theres been a couple of indies in development that use it (what was the name of the xbla game that used it, the one where the devs were posting here over 6 months ago) And Cave have been using the mechanic in the arrange modes of DS and Guwange. So it would be intresting if Cave developed double-play further to use it as a way to ramp up the difficulty now that bullet hell been with us for some time.

What do you guys think about double play or other on new mechanics in shmups that could become a future genre stable? What do you guys think where we will be in the future?

[Drum]

Developers will stop pretending and just distribute child pornography.

[linko9]

I don't think "ramping up the difficulty" is what devs are looking to do these days. Worst case scenario the genre won't even exist outside of a few doujin releases in 10 years. But I don't think that's very likely. Best case scenario, there's a huge resurgence in the genre's popularity, as there was with fighting games, leading to a renaissance in the genre, with franchises like Gradius and DDP reaching wide audiences... but that's even less likely. I do think the genre won't really grow in popularity as long as it stays rooted in "arcade-style" single-player gameplay (i.e. <60 min. playthroughs for score), but obviously I don't want that to change.

Of course, none of this is really an answer to your question. I don't really know what awesome ideas developers will come up with in the future, I just hope they do it.

[Xexyz]

Hopefully the constant bullet canceling fad in Cave games disappears in 10 years.

[stryc9]

Imagine a shooter in the first person perspective, where all you see is the gun in front of you. It will be much more realistic. You can go off and explore, pick up more ammunition, undertake actual missions, and snipe people from hiding places. They will also be much longer in length, a typical run going from 15 minutes to 8-12 hours, with features like 'autosave' kicking in every 5 minutes. Shooters will be in the public spotlight again, with millions of sales worldwide. Trust me, once you get a taste for this type of shooter, you will shelve all those primitive top-down or side view games....

[roker]

In 10 years, you will be the shmup. You'll take damage in real life time and bonus scores will make you rich beyond your wildest dreams.

[Udderdude]

Your super nanomachine augmented brain will control the shmup with direct neural impulses, and there will be 200 times as many bullets to make up for it.

[MR_Soren]

If the STG genre is going to survive, it is not going to happen on the backs of absurd optional modes like double-play that only the most dedicated players will attempt to master. The genre needs to occasionally be more accessible instead of catering exclusively to a shrinking harder-challenge-seeking fanbase. People look at these games and think, "oh, that's too hard." Instead of looking difficult, the games need to look fun so the developers can expand their customer bases. How?

Horizontal: People don't like the wasted screen space in a vert and don't want to flip their TVs. There need to be more games with a horizontal aspect ratio, but they can scroll vertically like GigaWing.

Gimmick: Like the polarity thing in Ikaruga, there needs to be another game with a hook the media can use. "At first glance, this game looks like another boring old scrolling shooter, but #this gimmick# adds a whole new dimension to the gameplay. Our demand is frothing!"

Lower Difficulty: Once the media is talking about the game, it needs to be easy enough that players don't immediately give up. The game must also have enough scoring depth and challenging techniques to keep experienced STG players interested. Perhaps some sort of dynamic rank adjustment based on score so it doesn't become a total snorefest.

Longer Length: To silence the "it's too short" crowd, the game needs at least two hours of unique gameplay. This can be further padded with optional and skippable cutscenes.

Multiple Courses: To make 2+ hours of gameplay bearable, there need to be multiple courses like in StarFox. Maybe Easy is 55 minutes long, the Medium course is 40 minutes, and the Hard course is 25 minutes.

Hidden Stuff: Alternate/secret stages, hidden items, alternate boss forms, multiple endings, etc. to keep people talking about the game. Very much like finding fairy and miclus in Raiden Fighters. Occasionally leak secrets. Run contests like "can you find this boss and defeat it?" Make one incredibly obscure "big" secret and leak it for a media boost when sales start to drop.

Achievements: There need to be achievements for gamers who lack the imagination to create their own goals, and the achievements need to be set up like an advanced training. For example, if one achievement involves performing an advanced scoring technique, then make another achievement involve getting a score that cannot be reached without said scoring technique.

Unlockables: Provide in-game money for completing various objectives. Perhaps the game gives you 5 credits and all unfinished credits get converted to money when you beat the game. $1 for each Easy credit, $3 for each Medium credit, and $10 for each Hard credit. So, a 1CC on Medium earns you $15 while a 2CC on Easy earns you $4, and you can use that money to unlock other ships/characters, profiles, artwork, alternate color schemes, superplay videos, hidden item maps, arrange modes, avatars, stage practice modes, etc.

Big Fucking Explosions: Spend some money making things go boom. None of this "the enemy turns orange and disappears" trash. If you're in a space ship, you need to see shit get obliterated. Massive fucking explosions that scar the landscape and make your windows rattle. Sight, sound, collateral damage. You need it all. Get the kids to say "oh cool!" when they play your game. If it's not a spaceship game, I don't know. Lots of purple flowers, pink tits, and panty shots or whatever.


I realize this is a lot of useless crap, but the core game could be played without all that fluff for people who don't need it or want it. Even if you hate it, one big successful mainstream STG could provide coattails for more serious games to ride on for several years. The fact we all need to realize is that arcades are quickly vanishing, and the STG genre must adapt to the expectations of console gamers if it wants to survive. However, they don't have to give up their soul to do so. DeathSmiles addresses many of these topics (including Drum's suggestion) and was fairly successful, but didn't give up the feel of being a Cave arcade game.

[Lance Boyle]

If the STG genre is going to survive, it is not going to happen on the backs of absurd optional modes like double-play that only the most dedicated players will attempt to master.

The genre needs to be more accessible. Most people look at these games and think, "oh, that's too hard, I could never do it." Instead of looking difficult, the games need to look fun. They do look fun to me and likely everybody else on this forum, but the developers need to expand their customer base into all those other people. What will that take?

Horizontal: People were complaining about verts on PS1 and PS2 because they don't like the wasted screen space and don't want to flip their TVs. This is made worse by the prevalence of widescreen televisions these days. There need to be more games with a horizontal aspect ratio, but they can still scroll vertically like GigaWing.

Gimmick: Like the polarity thing in Ikaruga, there needs to be a game with hook the media can use. "At first glance, this game looks like another boring old scrolling shooter, but #this gimmick# adds a whole new dimension to the gameplay. Our demand is frothing!"

Low Difficulty: Once the media is talking about the game, it needs to be easy enough that players don't grow too frustrated and give up. However, the gameplay needs to have enough depth that there is a lot of scoring potential to keep experienced STG players interested.

Longer Length: Just to silence the "it's too short" crowd, the game needs to have at least two hours of unique gameplay. This can be further padded with cutscenes that can be disabled in the options.

Multiple Courses: To make the 2+ hours of gameplay bearable, there need to be multiple courses. Kinda like in the original StarFox. It could be broken up with the easy course being 55 minutes long, the medium course being 40 minutes, and the hard course being 25 minutes.

Hidden Stuff: Alternate/secret stages, hidden items, alternate boss forms, multiple endings, etc. Stuff to keep people talking about the game and what new thing was discovered. Very much like finding fairy and miclus in the Raiden Fighters games. Make some of it really obscure and slowly leak out the stuff people aren't likely to figure out on their own. Make one of these obscure secrets really "big" to get back into the news sometime after release.

Achievements: To drive home the idea that the game is meant to be replayed, there need to be achievements for gamers who lack the imagination to create their own goals. Furthermore, the achievements need to be intelligently assigned. For example, make one of the achievements involve performing an advanced scoring technique 10 times on one stage, then make another achievement involve reaching a score on the Easy course that could only be reached by using advanced scoring techniques. In this way, the achievements are both an advanced tutorial and an incentive to keep playing.

Unlockables: Provide in-game rewards for completing various objectives. Say, maybe the game gives you 5 credits each time you play. Then, all unfinished credits get converted into money every time you beat the game. $1 for each Easy credit, $3 for each Medium credit, and $10 for each Hard credit. So, a 1CC on Medium earns you $15 while a 2CC on Easy earns you $4. You can use that money to unlock other ships/characters, profiles, artwork, alternate color schemes, superplay videos, hidden item maps, arrange modes, avatars, stage practice modes, etc.


I realize this sounds like a lot of useless crap to add to a game, but the core game could be played and enjoyed on it's own for people who don't need all of that fluff to justify a purchase. The fact we all need to realize is that arcades quickly vanishing, and the STG genre must adapt to the expectations of console gamers if it wants to survive. However, they don't have to give up their soul to do so. DeathSmiles actually addresses many of these topics (including Drum's suggestion) and was fairly successful, but didn't give up the feel of being a Cave arcade game.

No.

[Rob]

Completely abandon the 1 credit 'scrolling adventure' structure (stupidly easy level 1 that is expected to be replayed every new game, followed by slightly less stupid but still easy level 2). People can take a challenge and play for score if the stages are short and you don't have to waste 30 minutes getting there.

[MR_Soren]

Completely abandon the 1 credit 'scrolling adventure' structure (stupidly easy level 1 that is expected to be replayed every new game, followed by slightly less stupid but still easy level 2). People can take a challenge and play for score if the stages are short and you don't have to waste 30 minutes getting there.

That is a really good idea and it's worked well for games in other genres.

[Obiwanshinobi]

They won't be about shooting anymore. They will be about rubbing things against things, cancelling and absorbing things, collecting things... The name of the game will be suiciding and it will be all about making two hitboxes meet, each hitbox being just one pixel big in resolutions like 6400x3600 (good luck with that).

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Completely abandon the 1 credit 'scrolling adventure' structure (stupidly easy level 1 that is expected to be replayed every new game, followed by slightly less stupid but still easy level 2). People can take a challenge and play for score if the stages are short and you don't have to waste 30 minutes getting there.

you have a point look at 2 loop shmups where the 2nd loop is a big step up in difficulty for anyone trying for a 2ALL I can imagine that 1st loop been a real ball ache after awhile

I think thats why it was so nice to play Samidare as it only had 3 stages, so it was a short but sweet experience that didnt require you to spend weeks and months into beating it. And for anyone who 1CCs it, it has an added extra mode which is just one long stage which is really fucking hard. Personally Ild like to see a few more shmups that have episodic qualities in them

each hitbox being just one pixel big in resolutions like 6400x3600 (good luck with that).

I just hope they make the hitboxes visable on the sprites

[chempop]

I'd like to see more branching paths, way more actually. Not in a Darius kinda way, but where each stage has several seamless forks that offer different midbosses and powerups.

Another crazy idea I once had would be for each stage to have three "plains" almost like Guardian Heroes, where you could lower your ship to ground level and destroy tanks, turrets, and bunkers, then at a press of a button fly upward into the air to shoot down planes, and then fly even higher (into space?) to blast satellites and incoming mechs. Of course, the targets you leave alive would be still shooting at you while you are on a different plain, so you'd have to jump back and forth to eliminate as many threats as possible. Perhaps there could be a radar system with different colors indecating which altitude things were on... It would be chaotic but if done right I think it would be badass.

[Drum]

Completely abandon the 1 credit 'scrolling adventure' structure (stupidly easy level 1 that is expected to be replayed every new game, followed by slightly less stupid but still easy level 2). People can take a challenge and play for score if the stages are short and you don't have to waste 30 minutes getting there.

That is a really good idea and it's worked well for games in other genres.

I'd be aok with everything being procedurally generated and the game adjusting to your input/skill. Algorithms are a lot more interesting than set patterns. Bring on the roguelike shmups (but do it right). It could even adjust the pinkness of the bullets according to your mood.

[pooch]

I think MR_Soren's post is bang on. Obviously there'll be a lot of kneejerk hardcorier-than-thou reactions to it but if you see his point, there is still the same hardcore game in there - all the bits to make the game more accessible can be skipped if you don't want them. To be fair, the point about making it hori might be divisive (i prefer verts) but I agree that you're not really going to sell vert to the masses.

[apatia77]

They'll be no region locks with any consoles and shmups will overtake fps game sells.



I think in my dream only. haaaahaa

[TodayIsForgotten]

It will probably be safe to say they won't change at all in 10 years just like FPS don't change at all other than graphics getting better and bigger levels. I don't think there is room for any innovation that won't make a shoot em up lame.

[linko9]

You seem to have missed the last ten years of FPSs. They are very different now than they were 10 years ago: essentially you're talking Goldeneye vs. Modern Warfare. The "levels" have actually gotten smaller, in that the single-player campaign is more linear. Multiplayer maps are indeed sometimes bigger, but they're sometimes smaller. I'm not going to go into all the specific changes, but trust me, the genre is very different now than it was 10 years ago.

Genres inevitably change, and 10 years is a long time in the videogames industry. Shmups will continue to change, as will all other genres.

[mjclark]

In ten years time Viper Phase 1 will be exactly the same as it is now but my monitor will be bigger.

[Taylor]

I think MR_Soren's post is bang on. Obviously there'll be a lot of kneejerk hardcorier-than-thou reactions to it but if you see his point, there is still the same hardcore game in there - all the bits to make the game more accessible can be skipped if you don't want them. To be fair, the point about making it hori might be divisive (i prefer verts) but I agree that you're not really going to sell vert to the masses.

But this has all been done. They're called Euroshmups.

[legztec]

in ten years we wil be waving our right hand in the air to control the ship.
With our left hand waving to shoot, bomb, cancel bullets and throw enemy ships around with the ships magnetic tractor beam.
Please steal my ideas for shmups on kinect

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Personally I cant see the idea of a 1 casual massive hit shmup every now and again with the rest of shmups remaining hardcore. Commercial developers are a business that makes games to make money. So ofc if they have a hit theyre gonna release more of the same type. It would be more like 1 hardcore shmup and the rest casual. With smaller more niche indie developers and fan games supplying the rest of the hardcore shmups if the market demands it.

[pooch]

Personally I cant see the idea of a 1 casual massive hit shmup every now and again with the rest of shmups remaining hardcore. Commercial developers are a business that makes games to make money. So ofc if they have a hit theyre gonna release more of the same type. It would be more like 1 hardcore shmup and the rest casual. With smaller more niche indie developers and fan games supplying the rest of the hardcore shmups if the market demands it.

I see your point, but I think the hope would be that the casual-friendly shmup acts as a gateway, expanding the market for more hardcore shmups which might also be able to be produced on smaller budgets.

[MathU]

Exactly the same as now if CAVE remains dominant.

[1up]

Best case scenario, there's a huge resurgence in the genre's popularity, as there was with fighting games, leading to a renaissance in the genre, with franchises like Gradius and DDP reaching wide audiences... but that's even less likely.

nothing wrong with optimism, but I dont think it will ever happen. IMO, the biggest reason fighting games came back in a big way was because of online play.

biggest complaints I seem to read over and over again with shmups are:
1. too hard
2. too short

I think indie developers will flood the market with mediocre shmups on all platforms in 10 years from now.

[ZacharyB]

In the future, all shmups will come with VR goggles which will turn your own neighborhood into a procedurally-generated stage. Dodge billion-bullet patterns with your own body as you close in on Auntie Bertha. If you can get to the center and give her a big hug, you win!

[Ixmucane2]

Your super nanomachine augmented brain will control the shmup with direct neural impulses, and there will be 200 times as many bullets to make up for it.

Several brainwave (EEG) video game controllers are already available commercially, and in 5 or 10 years we'll have good first-party ones for popular consoles.

[MR_Soren]

Exactly the same as now if CAVE remains dominant.

I definitely agree that we need more than just CAVE, who probably put out more than half of the arcade and console STGs at the moment.

I think MR_Soren's post is bang on. Obviously there'll be a lot of kneejerk hardcorier-than-thou reactions to it but if you see his point, there is still the same hardcore game in there - all the bits to make the game more accessible can be skipped if you don't want them. To be fair, the point about making it hori might be divisive (i prefer verts) but I agree that you're not really going to sell vert to the masses.

But this has all been done. They're called Euroshmups.

No, I didn't say to make the game suck. Just add a bunch of optional superficial bullshit to make it acceptable to the mainstream crowd. Most of my suggestions are covered between Raiden Fighters Jet 2 and DeathSmiles, so it's not like you can't still have a good game beneath it all.

I prefer verts too, but there are people who won't even give a vert a chance on the console. "Why is the game not filling the screen?" or "No way am I turning my TV on it's side!" I read an interview with Jun and he cited mainstream friendliness as a reason for making DeathSmiles horizontal.

A girl once begged to borrow my Tetris DS, but quickly returned it because she didn't like it very much. Why? She said, "I liked #some version# because it had unlockable stuff, and this one doesn't so there's no reason to keep playing." Some people just like unlocking stuff. If that is what it takes to keep somebody playing an STG, then it should be done. Maybe they'll eventually realize they enjoy the game and try another one. The same applies to cutscenes, achievements, and secrets.

Also:

No "Shmup": Seriously, the term sucks and is probably holding the genre back. I'm still pissed that "shooter" got stolen by the FPS crowd who already had a nice acronym, and you can't say "shmup" in public without sounding like a dipshit. We don't want these games to look like the genre for dipshits. Some marketing genius needs to come up with something better and get people saying it.

[pooch]

You should get her on Mars Matrix. She'd love it.