Under Defeat or Zero Gunner 2 for Dreamcast?

[splitt442]

Please don't kill me if this is an age old question, I'm completely torn on these two...

The Psikyo freak in me wants to lean towards ZG2.

However, I have read that UD has an old, "Toaplan" feel which caught my attention.

I'm very much into straight forward shooters; no crazy chaining/ scoring mechanics (hence the Psikyo love). UD looks like it might be the fresher experience as a 3D, heli shooter in TATE. I haven't played a G.rev game yet, and thats worrying me a bit as well.

Can anyone offer some advice?!

Thanks!

[mjclark]

Both! These are two very different games and about the only things they have in common are Dreamcast and helicopters.
ZG2 is fun and satisfying and allows full rotation of the heli so if you like Psikyo you won't be disappointed.
UD feels very modern and it's quite sparse and brutal with striking graphics. For me it's ZG2 for satisfaction but UD for excitement!!!

[Plasmo]

I'd say go with ZG2. UD feels very cold and soulless, I didn't really have any fun playing it. The scoring mechanics are plain, but still not very good. I don't know where you've read about the Toaplan feel. UD plays nothing like it.

ZG2 on the other side is a superb game. Simple, actionpacked and one of Psikyo's finest. It's worth to play for the bosses alone, excellent design! I don't think you can go wrong with this one. On top of that it's rather easy and nice to get into for beginners.

[emphatic]

I vote Zero Gunner 2. IMHO this is the best Psikyo game and the graphics are friggin' awesome. I hooked my Dreamcast up to a 22" LCD screen and you'd never think it's made in 2001!!!

[Battletoad]

Zero Gunner 2 of course. It´s the best Psikyo game for me (well it´s my absolute favourite shooter so...). The control is what makes it special and it feels extremely smooth after you got used to it. The bosses are cool, too, they even managed to include fun boss milking for the first time (at least in stage 6 and 7). Even though Psikyo barely made any games with 3D graphics, this one looks just awesome! Additionally, if you love transforming mechas, this is definitely your game.

While I have some problems with Under Defeat (mainly the rotation being a little wishy-washy, the lack of firepower and the perspective which destroys my dodging skills) it´s still a fun game. You might go for both games eventually, they really don´t have much in common.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

ive never played UD but having the bullets grow longer as they move down the screen would really turn me off

[chempop]

They are both great, I happen to lean heavily toward Under Defeat though. The isometic view is tuff to adjust to, I think this is what turns most people away from the game. I really like how your main shot has two different guns, one of which arks down and hits ground targets- almost a bit of Rayforce in there.

[subcons]

ZG2 gets my vote. I own and love both, but definitely love ZG2 far more. It's probably my favorite shooter on the system.

Pick up UD later on though. It's good!

[wiNteR]

Under Defeat is much better imo. I think that the start from 2-1 option is great and more games need to have it. And the music is brilliant too.

ZG2 feels more like an experimental psikyo game, which in the end, while having some interesting elements, just doesn't end up as good as their other games. Don't expect it to play like more traditional psikyo game. It is more of an arena shooter style of game with a tilted perspective. But yeah, then again I consider Dragon Blaze to be second weakest traditional psikyo game after ZG2, so maybe you should keep that in mind.

While I have some problems with Under Defeat (mainly the rotation being a little wishy-washy, the lack of firepower and the perspective which destroys my dodging skills) it´s still a fun game.

It isn't like the perspective doesn't heavily affect one's dodging skills in ZG2 either. Since UD leans more towards destruction than dodging and memorization, I would say that the perspective affects it less.

[Kron]

They are first class examples of a modern shmup. Get both.

[pooch]

I had this dilemma. I've just bought Under Defeat, but now I clearly need to get Zero Gunner 2 as well. I'm blaming it on you lot when the wife finds out.

[Shocky]

Under Defeat: I want to play this all the time, but when I actually get to it, it's no fun at all. The graphics and style are marvelous, but the damn perspective and hitbox confuses me all the time and it gets boring to grind the first two stages and waiting for the real action.

Zero Gunner 2: Now this is actually fun. There's a lot going on all the time, and two-player co-op.

So, definitely get both.

[evil_ash_xero]

Probably Zero Gunner 2, but there's not a massive amount of difference in quality. They're both pretty fun, but ZG2 is more fun. They both look pretty good too.

[t0yrobo]

I like everything about UD better, except for actually playing it. It's fun, but it always feels like a chore for some reason. ZG2 is just a ton of fun once you get a feel for the rotation, and it's a blast on 2 player.

[Square King]

ZG2 is just a ton of fun once you get a feel for the rotation, and it's a blast on 2 player.

Exactly. UD if you go solo, ZG2 if you have someone to game with. UD feels sparse and pretty epic; ZG2 kinda gets there but it's more blasty shooty fun time to me.

[Nico87]

Meh, ZG2 for price.

[ROBOTRON]

Like both but Under defeat edges out Zero Gunner slightly. UD just has the right stuff, power-ups, atmosphere, explosions, etc.

[apple arcade]

UD just has the right stuff, power-ups, atmosphere, explosions, etc.

Uhhh where?

However I love UD so that get's my vote.

[E. Randy Dupre]

UD feels very cold and soulless, I didn't really have any fun playing it.

This. UD is one of the most distant, characterless games in the genre. I can see the appeal if people like the military, real-world aesthetic, but it's got no heart at all.

[lilmanjs]

Under Defeat for me, really the only reason I still play it is for the music and the graphics. I these days find myself having more fun playing ZG2.

[Stormwatch]

Both look and play great, but Under Defeat is hands down THE best looking shmup on the Dreamcast.

[PsychoGun]

Under Defeat is fucking sick. I agree that it is a little bit style over substance, but when the style is that good...

[splitt442]

Awesome feedback! I'm not totally sure if G.rev contains any members from the RayStorm team but the perspective and bullets seem very similar. That being said, the "Taito" connection actually scares me about G.rev, most of Taito's inhouse shooters seem very bland and "soulless", (not counting Gun Frontier, that game bleeds style and substance).

Zero Gunner 2 seems like the safer bet, normally I hate "this or that" posts but I was pretty torn on these two. I might grab UD eventually but hopefully I'll get to try it first.

I love this community, y'all are the best!

[ROBOTRON]

UD just has the right stuff, power-ups, atmosphere, explosions, etc.

Uhhh where?

However I love UD so that get's my vote.

uh, sorry too many mushrooms

[louisg]

Hard to decide.. I'd go for UD myself.. I love that game

[BAD]

Zero Gunner 2 all the way.

[chempop]

<<Minor Spoiler>>


[in Under Defeat]
Who needs power-ups when you can shoot your missiles down the barrel of giant enemy tank! One of a kind shmup brilliance right there. Also one of the most impressive bombs to grace the genre.

[emphatic]

I hate that little freeze frame as you get killed in UD. It feels more like a glitch than anything else.

[PsikyoPshumpPshooterP]

ZG2

[Koa Zo]

I NEED to get my Dreamcast out of storage.
I has been too long since I've played these games!