What do you think about TwinGalaxies?

[sikraiken]

I'm just curious what everyone's opinion is. Would you submit to them (why/why not), what do you think of their scores, their methods for verification, the people in charge, what they're doing currently, and anything else that pertains to them?

There are some things they don't seem to want to change/fix.
-At least three years have passed and there has been no formal decision on the ability to use superguns.
-They leave old scores in the database which don't have much/any real verification and don't care (chalking it up to "we can't get in touch with the person who made the record," basically).
-No real progress on outreach to foreign countries for majority of games.
-"World Records"
-I drove 8 hours to Funspot in New Hampshire back in 2002 to play/submit a score to them. It was never put up, no reason.
-Majority of the scores listed on their website are scores I never actually submitted to them, but apparently they can't be removed because they are part of the intellectual property rights of Twin Galaxies.

http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopi ... 88#p116288 You can read some back and forth stuff I posted there last year if you're interested.


[13:55:38] <sikraiken> http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx? ... 031&vi=669 the top score for this is beatable, but I don't believe it, and it's grandfathered/unchallengable
[13:56:36] <Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin> umm...
[13:56:44] <Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin> sikraiken: that's not a grandfathered track
[13:56:58] <Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin> nor is it unchallengeable
[13:57:23] <sikraiken> Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin: Walter Day told me otherwise.
[13:57:41] <Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin> I'm sorry but I reiterate the exact same point sikraiken
[13:57:52] <sikraiken> do I have to restate my statement?
[13:57:53] <Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin> and secondly, Mr. Day has been retired for quite a long time
[13:58:11] <Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin> and not a representative of TG
[13:58:15] <sikraiken> this was when he was
[13:58:35] <sikraiken> if that's untrue, how can I go about challenging this score, then
[13:58:41] <Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin> you are quite unfortunately mistaken sikraiken, but I doubt you will change your mind
[13:58:47] <sikraiken> how am I mistaken?
[13:58:50] <Mr_Kelly_R_Flewin> work time
[13:58:51] <sikraiken> that's what I was told
[13:58:54] <sikraiken> you're a moron

He went to work after that, I guess. This is someone who is a "representative of TG" by the way.

Honestly, I stopped having the slightest care that I did have last year, but I'm just wondering what other people thought.

[emphatic]

I'm just curious what everyone's opinion is.

[13:58:54] <sikraiken> you're a moron

It's a laughable site. But you said it best, they are morons.

[E. Randy Dupre]

How can an otherwise meaningless string of digits be somebody's intellectual property?

I like "work time". It appears to mean the same thing as *runs away*.

[Acid King]

It's a joke. The Gamecube Ikaruga score is less than what is needed for an S Rank on the first stage. That scores like that, which any half competent player can best, are even counted and entered as world records is laughable.

[Ruldra]

I know very little about TG, but I have no respect at all for them. When you look at all the (awfully low) scores posted there regarded as world records, you know the whole thing is a joke.

The cyvern world record registered there is 2,193,120. We just had 105 people break that score.

[dan76]

After watching King of Kong I haven't got much time for Twin Galaxies scoring - the way they fell over themselves for that uber douche Billy Mitchell was embarrassing. Though I'd love to have an arcade like that near me...

[ZOM]

When you look at all the (awfully low) scores posted there regarded as world records, you know the whole thing is a joke.

This pretty much sums it up. Really, I'm not one to beat their so called world records (for now), but I know enough people who do it almost daily.

[Warp_Rattler]

After watching King of Kong I haven't got much time for Twin Galaxies scoring - the way they fell over themselves for that uber douche Billy Mitchell was embarrassing. Though I'd love to have an arcade like that near me...

This. The film's reputation for creative editing notwithstanding, the people who looked like the greatest douches were the TG folks and their extremely inconsistent standards for submission and scoring, etc. The idea of a game record maintaining organization is good, but it needs to be much more professionally run and (this is important) internationally-available if it's to be anything other than a cheap gimmick. Unfortunately, now that they're allied with the Guinness world record folks, I doubt they'll ever admit their own irrelevance.

[spongdangly]

It's a joke. The Gamecube Ikaruga score is less than what is needed for an S Rank on the first stage. That scores like that, which any half competent player can best, are even counted and entered as world records is laughable.

I was checking out some of there laughable high scores for DonPachi and DoDonPachi and then I came across these epic Trigger Heart Exelica High Scores (Arcade Mode, Arrange Mode). Now while I only consider myself to be decent at shoot 'em ups (especially since I haven't played them in awhile), my meager scores in DDP and Trigger Heart would get me some world records which is pretty sad considering I didn't even 1CC DDP's first loop.

[JoshF]

Twin Galaxies and MARP suck. No autofire in newer games because it wouldn't be fair to the Galaga players!

[sikraiken]

At least at MARP, I think autofire use could be pushed if there was enough interest. Not enough people have really voiced that, though, to make the change.

[Smraedis]

I think that because they only take in scores that only themselves have verified, that they will never have that many scores at all which are the highest ever.

I don't take much interest in it myself, I know that I am quite good at games and don't need low scores to compare with.

[Ruldra]

Gemant said it best here.

TG is the best of the best in web for arcade records in this range: 197x~1985.

decent status about 1986-1987...

after 1987..... in the middle of nowhere...

after 1989... none knowledge, none proficiency, zero. Special crazy rules, all leeching banned, no default settings, no japanese games, bah! Ridiculous....

For TG members: please, not call "WR" only scores submitted in TG, please watch the situation at the outside TG site (marp, arcadia, gamest, mame score, AIVA, jvrm....)

TG has a lot of potential. I can see many people from different gaming forums submitting replays to them, and soon enough they would have respectable scoreboards. All they need is to be more open about accepting new scores.

[Acid King]

I was checking out some of there laughable high scores for DonPachi and DoDonPachi and then I came across these epic Trigger Heart Exelica High Scores (Arcade Mode, Arrange Mode). Now while I only consider myself to be decent at shoot 'em ups (especially since I haven't played them in awhile), my meager scores in DDP and Trigger Heart would get me some world records which is pretty sad considering I didn't even 1CC DDP's first loop.

For sometime now I've been wanting to make short films of myself drunkenly beating some of those records to submit for verification. Do Rocky style training montages of me taking shots and doing car bombs and keg stands, then setting an "official" world record.

[saucykobold]

I can't understand how these guys can talk about world records with a straight face. I mean, take Brian Kuh.

Admit it, you're just green with envy.

[Octopod]

Twin Galaxies is shit. No credibility at all. The only reason Guinness and others recognize them is because no one else has stepped up yet.

[Ed Oscuro]

There are some things they don't seem to want to change/fix.
-At least three years have passed and there has been no formal decision on the ability to use superguns.
-They leave old scores in the database which don't have much/any real verification and don't care (chalking it up to "we can't get in touch with the person who made the record," basically).
-No real progress on outreach to foreign countries for majority of games.
-"World Records"
-I drove 8 hours to Funspot in New Hampshire back in 2002 to play/submit a score to them. It was never put up, no reason.
-Majority of the scores listed on their website are scores I never actually submitted to them, but apparently they can't be removed because they are part of the intellectual property rights of Twin Galaxies.

Thread over, everything has been said already.

Cancer on society.

To be fair to the guy, though:

[13:55:38] <sikraiken> http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx? ... 031&vi=669 the top score for this is beatable, but I don't believe it, and it's grandfathered/unchallengable

There seems to be a typo somewhere in what you said, that may have been throwing him off. When you wrote "beatable, but I don't believe it," you're referring to arguments that it's UNbeatable not being believable, correct?

I like MARP because it doesn't come at you with all this emotional baggage and shenanigans to put Facebook to shame. You get your old version of MAME, find a ROM, and you can watch an old Who Dunit? play. (Though MARP's Who Dunit plays are kind of lame, I ought to practice a bit and do better. Also, MAME really isn't a good standard for arcade superplays.)

[gameoverDude]

I can't understand how these guys can talk about world records with a straight face. I mean, take Brian Kuh.

Admit it, you're just green with envy.

70480 on Heavy Barrel? ROFL. I've 1CCed it with over 1.4M. Get the Heavy Barrel completed right before the final boss, then laugh your ass off at his "You Die!" threats as you prepare to own him in 2 seconds.

3.6M is nothing on Chase HQ. A good WR would be at least 10M. Kuh has a few good records but a lot of joke ones.

Leeching shouldn't be banned if the game imposes its own constraint (i.e. time over, boss timeout, etc.). Take Mutation Nation for example. When you get to the end of area 1's first section, the mid-boss will sic dogs on you repeatedly. You can keep pounding them down for 700 points each, but he'll eventually time out if not killed.

Now it should be the case with Contra. Konami forgot to limit your time in the side-scrolling levels.

[sikraiken]

There seems to be a typo somewhere in what you said, that may have been throwing him off. When you wrote "beatable, but I don't believe it," you're referring to arguments that it's UNbeatable not being believable, correct?

I meant what I said, I could beat it actually. I don't believe it (not saying it's impossible, of course) because of the age, it's the only score he submitted, and they don't have any information on the score besides what is listed on their website now (TG is missing information on some (many?) of their older scores, and some of their older scores were found to be fake because their verification methods at the time were not that great).

[Aguraki]

just watched "chasing ghosts" a few days ago and also seen king of kong a while ago too.
Enjoyed both,more for the atmosphere,the folklore and seeing 80's freaks than for the validity of it.

As said already,they only get scores that are submited to them(and as far as I know it's the same for the guiness).
When people don't recognize the structure as an authority they aren't enticed to join/submit scores and be part of that system.
It's like leagues in sports that are broken(boxe get through my mind,or even better chess where world champion lost a loss of meanings after FIDE debacle circa y2k),the symbol of the WR is tarnished and less and less people want/care about it.

Also TG are close minded on USA and N-America,they actually aren't well known in the world(internet changed things a bit).

For my concerns I don't care about their scores(even if classic arcades scores were huge sometimes(like counter stop/kill screens) and I rely way more on sub-forums(like here ).
I still like to watch/read stuff on them though,since I love that classic arcade era and it's pure nostalgia from me.

So what is left to us?

Twin Galaxies is shit. No credibility at all. The only reason Guinness and others recognize them is because no one else has stepped up yet.

exactly.
Because this is a boring a tedious work.
I suspect there is something to do there and to success there are some ways to do it(thought about it):
-need of a decent system to track scores(obv).
-need to be global.
-need to work with already established scores keepers in each style.
-need top players to submit scores and acknowledge/vouch for the site.

last part is the most important point.
A world record holds his prestige only by those who are in the competition.
If it's too low leveled/random,people don't care.

Also it's probably impossible to pretend keeping all scores at the beginning so the best way would be something like horizontal integration starting(let's say) with shmups and then sealing agreements with other score keepers/fusionning.

hummmm...

let's do it?

[Zeether]

What do I think about Twin Galaxies?

[Ed Oscuro]

There seems to be a typo somewhere in what you said, that may have been throwing him off. When you wrote "beatable, but I don't believe it," you're referring to arguments that it's UNbeatable not being believable, correct?

I meant what I said, I could beat it actually. I don't believe it (not saying it's impossible, of course) because of the age, it's the only score he submitted, and they don't have any information on the score besides what is listed on their website now (TG is missing information on some (many?) of their older scores, and some of their older scores were found to be fake because their verification methods at the time were not that great).

Okay, so we are just missing a bit of the context from earlier in the IM, I guess.

exactly.
Because this is a boring a tedious work.
I suspect there is something to do there and to success there are some ways to do it(thought about it):
-need of a decent system to track scores(obv).
-need to be global.
-need to work with already established scores keepers in each style.
-need top players to submit scores and acknowledge/vouch for the site.

[...]
let's do it?

I would say yes, but is anybody serious about putting the time into doing this seriously?

It sure would take a lot of dedication, and I do notice that on the High Scores board here, many people will fold before they will challenge somebody on a score, because it can quickly get nasty. Most people would rather play games and not care.

It is galling that TG continues to bask in the media limelight for doing things three steps from mediocre - even if they do a lot of work that undercuts the value of it - but is it enough of a burr in the ass to create a new site to challenge it? Hard to say.

[Octopod]

I have not even looked at their shit in a few years but I know as of 4 or 5 years ago their NES high scores were laughable as well.

[JoshF]

lol why is it our job to refurnish Walter Day's tree club?

[Acid King]

lol why is it our job to refurnish Walter Day's tree club?

[Sasupoika]

Their world records are laughable.
Their rules are crazy.
And etc.

I don't like TG.

[Jockel]

So... did anyone tell them yet that their scores are laughable?
I'd love to hear their response.

[ryu]

twingalaxies should best be ignored.

[evil_ash_xero]

What do I think of TG?

I think their Foot Locker employee president(I guess that's what he is) is a folk rock god. Museum Of My Heart! Swoon!

[charlie chong]

I THINK WE SHOULD SEND OUR COMPLAINTZ TO GUINESS INSTEAD AND BYPASS TWIN GALAXIES COMPLETELY..IT IS OBVIOUS TO EVEN A SINGLE CELL ORGANSIM THAT THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE AND LIKE TO PAT EACH OTHERS BACK.
THEY DO NOT DESERVE THERE "OFFICIAL" STATUS AND SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS IDIOTZ
FIGHT THE POWAH