Cave and iPhone discussion

[szycag]

Cave seems to be banking on stuff like iPhone and iPad being the way to break into the western market, although I doubt they are the platforms Cave fans like the ones on this forum would think are ideal for experiencing Cave games. That being said, it's easy to see why Cave like these platforms... Apple seems pretty hands off about all the crap on the business side of games that companies like Microsoft and Sony insist on; it's a more inviting platform for smaller developers like Cave and they have more direct control.

I don't have any interest in Apple's products personally. They seem overpriced, I don't really have any legitimate NEED for 3G and stuff like that, and the limitations of the iPad when there are more functional tablet devices that came out much earlier are jarring. But I want to play great games, and Cave seem to be confident in the App Store and touch control being an OK way to play shooting games. I haven't had a chance to try Galuda II on an iPhone/iPod, but it certainly looks beautiful and I'm open-minded about touch controls if Cave are standing behind it. Cave have already said they're going to be bringing another of their arcade series games out on the App Store.

I'm just curious about people's opinions on Cave's plans here. This seems to be their most marketable venture outside of the arcade market big picture wise. We love the console ports of course, but from Cave's perspective I can see how they're kind of in the corner there marketwise. Just the forum's thoughts on Apple's products and storefront, Cave's ability to stay profitable and reach consumers outside of the niche bubble, and how they might be playing this one in relation to the declining state of game centers in Japan. Should we be pushing them towards stuff like Steam instead? (Yes)

[cools]

Steam?

Cave are all about fixed platforms, not the hideous mess that is a modern PC.

If they were to release on Steam, I'd bet it'd only be for Apple machines

They're releasing on the 360, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the business side of games?

[DJ Incompetent]

I don't mind Cave infiltrating mobile market. The Espgaluda2 iphone runs too slow for my taste, but Smartphone app stores are still in a wild west state. If Cave wanted to be discovered, the mobile scene is probably the best place to capitalize while the mobile gaming genres are being ironed out.

...I mean for making money, not targeting their small correct demographic i.e. us.

[alastair jack]

I think it's sad that they care for the iPhone. I guess money can entice people to do some bizarre things.

[szycag]

In this article Steam was mentioned. I wouldn't have thought they were considering Steam if I didn't hear it from that article. It's unclear if they're really considering it or just threw it out there. Yeah they're releasing for 360, but like that article says, they want global releases. I don't see them having as much control as they would like, which is why they seem so interested in Apple. They have to rely on western publishers to get out western disc releases. Also there is covering the print runs in Japan, which have to be pretty limited. With XBLA there's the approval process and how much of a chunk of the price is going to Microsoft. In a perfect world I think they wouldn't be putting out their games at full retail and the prices would be more comparable to the price of the iPhone version, if it wasn't for Microsoft's policies and how they're controlling that market. So while they're able to get their games on 360 the situation there seems less than ideal for Cave, and you've got to wonder if the legs are there for them.

[gray117]

They're just exploring revenue streams... their recent dallies into console gaming went completely against their previous doctrine; hopefully its been a pleasant jaunt for them cash wise.

Their ideal, of course, would be to nurture and expand their audience.

Reaching marketplaces, people and nurturing that collective is an extremely difficult and expensive task. The only way a company like cave could achieve this is via viral/social means.

In Japan there's already been a number of cell phone realisations of their games. Iphone/Apple for them represents a huge marketplace, hardware platform and delivery service with a massive WESTERN audience, with a good hype/trend cache, the more this dings with journos and gamers the more cave games stand a chance of establishing a reputation.

If this reputation feeds across not only will you generate sales but also a value for cave as brand. If you have a brand, you'll find yourself positively under assault from various potential contacts and partners.

At this point in time I'd be surprised if cave means anything to industry execs... there is very little brand value there.

[Van_Artic]

i'd really like to see Cave games on Steam, simple enough

[Square King]

i'd really like to see Cave games on Steam, simple enough

Seriously. If Cave is indeed fed up with MS's approval process and various hoops, and Apple's app store is a breath of fresh air, I don't see why they aren't considering Steam as a viable option, especially now that Steam's gone cross-platform. From what I know, Cave isn't too hot on the emulation of more recent games, so they have an opportunity to hit it head on and offer enhanced ports as with Mushi -- and make a few bucks, too. I for one would gladly drop $10-$20 a pop for Cave titles; any extra features would be icing.

Who knows. Maybe they have something in store for Steam after the Xbox stuff is out there. I would hope that Valve's approval process is nothing like MS's, but...

[Van_Artic]

Seriously. If Cave is indeed fed up with MS's approval process and various hoops, and Apple's app store is a breath of fresh air, I don't see why they aren't considering Steam as a viable option, especially now that Steam's gone cross-platform. From what I know, Cave isn't too hot on the emulation of more recent games, so they have an opportunity to hit it head on and offer enhanced ports as with Mushi -- and make a few bucks, too. I for one would gladly drop $10-$20 a pop for Cave titles; any extra features would be icing.

Who knows. Maybe they have something in store for Steam after the Xbox stuff is out there. I would hope that Valve's approval process is nothing like MS's, but...

Valve takes indie games, 2D games and other shit like it's bread and butter; some high-quality Cave product would be warmly welcome, i'd buy them full price just like we do for 360 ports

PC-wise, i guess they would achieve arcade-perfect quality; and it's easier to release patches and DLC, unlike Ms where you have to wait weeks (if not months) to get a simple update ready

again, i think it's an high probability; with these moves Cave approached Microsoft and Apple, the two major companies of PC industry, we're not that far to see at least an experimental release

[originalz]

Steam would be an odd choice though, considering it doesn't exist in Japan. If they release it on Steam, they'll be completely alienating their domestic audience. Doesn't make much sense.

[Van_Artic]

Steam would be an odd choice though, considering it doesn't exist in Japan. If they release it on Steam, they'll be completely alienating their domestic audience. Doesn't make much sense.

and that's the point, since japanese people can already get games without worrying about region-locks and other import taxes
by the way, someone asked if it's possible to use Steam in japan and buy games, and it actually works

[originalz]

Steam would be an odd choice though, considering it doesn't exist in Japan. If they release it on Steam, they'll be completely alienating their domestic audience. Doesn't make much sense.

and that's the point, since japanese people can already get games without worrying about region-locks and other import taxes
by the way, someone asked if it's possible to use Steam in japan and buy games, and it actually works

Sure, you can use Steam to buy games in Japan, but there's no localized Japanese store and no easy way to pay for things since a lot of Japanese people don't like using their credit card online, and paypal has no presence here.

I would be very, very surprised if they decided to use Steam to release games.

[yyr]

I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned that PC games are quite prone to piracy. Sure, iPhone stuff is too, but there is also a large enough audience willing to pay for things that there is less of a threat.

Is there something Steam does to make their games uncrackable?

[cools]

uncrackable?

Heh.

[gray117]

Is there something Steam does to make their games uncrackable?

They're totally crackable; but here's some things that steam does well that basically discourages cracking: Convenience, a good store system, pricing, loyal customer base, multiplayer features, communities and goodwill.

Iphone is a popular and far more public/hype/trendy platform. The customers diverse but the majority are trend followers, and are generally to be thought of as consumers rather than gamers. These consumers are paying $$?$$ a month for their shitty service plans and think that games should therefore be very low $ or free. The marketplace is flooded with both gems and junk. The 'communities' are a mess... despite the love of a nice device the users are somewhat jaded in terms of its cost and value...

The 'problem' for steam supporters is that they simply do not have the cultural cache of apple. That being said they are probably the kind of people who would be more easily targeted...

... we shall see... I hardly think cave is "betting the bank" on iphone but they are making a push there, I wouldn't be surprised if they push on steam after their xbla foray...