[PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

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skondrk
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[PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by skondrk »

A friend of mine and I (both developers & writers) came up with a spur-of-the-moment game idea based on the name "Rocket Giants." We figured it would be a cool name for a SHMUP, so we started brainstorming about its focus. We came down to the point that to satisfy the name, there should be larger ships involved. This would also suggest a heavier hull (so that you're not concerned with taking a lot of smaller bullets unless you're really damaged -- you usually have some other concern based on a big threat).

One thing I should point out now is that our art budget is low. Therefore, these ideas might not make it far beyond prototyping. :( Still, I thought I would join the SHMUPS party and let you know about our thoughts.

There were two ideas that resonated well with us, but they would be tricky to implement (but maybe fun!). I imagined both game ideas having a bottom-to-top shooting style, but left-to-right could work for them as well.


1. You have a somewhat large, 3-part ship that can move its conjoined parts separately. Use it to avoid tight spaces, or shape yourself for certain attack patterns (esp bosses). Swapping between conjoined parts lets it shoot different weapon types, shapes, and/or directions. A small boost will exist to help you get out of the way of larger threats. This game moves slowly at points to assure that you're making the correct movements when you need it.

2. You are a small drone/repair ship protecting a much larger "mothership" object throughout a level (i.e.; you're the bad guy protecting your sort of "final boss"). This objective may vary between an actual huge vessel with weaponry; its fuel-line/space-bridge which dangles towards a planet to steal its resources; other, larger attack drones that can help you fight, etc. Another objective might involve destroying a large, terrestrial weapon (read: ion cannon) poised to destroy your orbiting mothership. Bosses are typically giant robots that will tear the crap out of your mothership. In any case, leaving the ship to fend for itself is typically a poor choice in this game.

As you destroy enemies, their pickups allow you to salvage parts or weaponry. These can power you up or let you repair your objective if its hull is damaged. This game might be lenient on lives, since said mothership could hypothetically just make more of you. This game is usually fast-paced, but there are almost always places on-screen for you to move and repair your objective (usually the bottom or sides of the screen) unless its hull is perfect.


Each idea has its weaknesses, but both of them are fairly unique. Beyond constructive criticism, are there any SHMUPS out there that share some sort of link with a larger, slower vessel?

Thanks guys! Keep mashing those buttons. :D
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Udderdude
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by Udderdude »

What you've described definitely isn't a traditional shmup. Making your ship large and unwieldly probably isn't a good idea, but the idea of repairing/protecting a larger ship sounds ok. Just so long as you can still die in one hit .. :P

I don't think there are really any shmups out there like that, that I can recall anyway. Doubt they would have been done properly.
skondrk
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by skondrk »

Oh no, definitely not traditional, at least not by all means. I'm sure there are some mainstays that we will stick with, but making an interesting game sometimes involves breaking the mold.

Do you think it's alright to have "infinite" lives in the second example? A game over would be reached once your mark was destroyed. If your drone is destroyed, the respawn time and loss of weaponry powerups would hinder the amount of help you could offer your mark (especially on boss fights!).
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worstplayer
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by worstplayer »

Sounds like it could work, but if I was you, i'd make a quick prototype to make sure the concept isn't inherently broken.
"A game isn't bad because you resent it. A game is bad because it's shitty."
skondrk
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by skondrk »

worstplayer wrote:Sounds like it could work, but if I was you, i'd make a quick prototype to make sure the concept isn't inherently broken.
I was considering it, but I wanted to get a few other games that resembled this idea for some inspiration.
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worstplayer
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by worstplayer »

I can only think of one, Cloudphobia. However the ship you have to protect is off-screen there, and it's mostly an excuse to force player to not let too many enemies escape.

EDIT: Jets'n'Guns Gold has couple of escort missions as well. In one of them you also control movement of escorted ship...and it's not as much fun as it sounds...
"A game isn't bad because you resent it. A game is bad because it's shitty."
skondrk
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by skondrk »

worstplayer wrote:I can only think of one, Cloudphobia. However the ship you have to protect is off-screen there, and it's mostly an excuse to force player to not let too many enemies escape.

EDIT: Jets'n'Guns Gold has couple of escort missions as well. In one of them you also control movement of escorted ship...and it's not as much fun as it sounds...
Would you be able to describe what made those parts not very fun? I will look into playing them myself, but another's opinion would be nice to have. I think it has a lot of potential if it is done the right way.
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Udderdude
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by Udderdude »

I have done a 'protect the mothership' level in a game I made called Space Dudes DX (it's unreleased)

In it, there's a mothership in the center of the screen, and enemy shots that can hit the ship can also be destroyed by the player. So the player has to shoot down any shots heading towards the mothership while at the same time avoiding other shots and trying to kill off enemies. The mothership takes ~10 hits before it blows, and you have to survive for a certian amount of time.

This might be one way to go about it.
skondrk
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by skondrk »

Udderdude wrote: So the player has to shoot down any shots heading towards the mothership while at the same time avoiding other shots and trying to kill off enemies. The mothership takes ~10 hits before it blows, and you have to survive for a certian amount of time.
Yeah, that basically sounds like something I'm trying to make this resemble. :) In my case, the mothership/mark was going to be in several different places to make the game varied. One level might have it on the bottom of the screen, taking up a portion as if it were a landscape. Another might have a long tendril reaching through the center of the screen, which might move around as you progress. The "attack drones" idea might have marks swoop in and attack while waiting to be repaired.

Would you mind if I took a gander at your work, Udderdude? I'm curious about what you envisioned.
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Drum
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by Drum »

Controlling a Big Core from Gradius would work pretty well - the core is the only part that is vulnerable, and is essentially your hitbox. Powerups add turrets to the body of the ship. The problem, if it's a problem, is that it wouldn't really be too much different from any other shmup in pratice - just with a larger on-screen ship.

Playing Bio-Ship Paladin might be good for some research.
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Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
skondrk
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by skondrk »

Drum wrote:Controlling a Big Core from Gradius would work pretty well - the core is the only part that is vulnerable, and is essentially your hitbox. Powerups add turrets to the body of the ship. The problem, if it's a problem, is that it wouldn't really be too much different from any other shmup in pratice - just with a larger on-screen ship.

Playing Bio-Ship Paladin might be good for some research.
Could have some potential. Still, it requires enemy ships to always get in front of you (EDIT: or do you? Will have to check)... we're used to bosses letting down their defenses once in a while to let us hit them, and Big Core is no exception.

Adding Bio-Ship to the list:

Bio-Ship Paladin
Cloudphobia
Jets n' Guns Gold
Gradius

Any others? I'm thinking about making a prototype over the weekend and see where I can go.
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Drum
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by Drum »

Battleships Forever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Xs4Jv4uo0 and Captain Forever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp8MHUNp7Cg would be good to look at.
Also maybe Dragon Breed and Tumiki Fighters?
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Hi-score thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34327
skondrk
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Re: [PC] "Rocket Giants" - a large-ship SHMUP?

Post by skondrk »

Dragon Breed seems really cool! I didn't think about a ship that way, where the larger part is indestructible and you must protect a *smaller* mark ... maybe that could be a way to look at it! Your "giant" could be the nigh-indestructible part of your character that takes blows while you protect the "core" area, whatever that might be. That resembles the Gradius Big Core idea, too. :D

The idea of catching enemies to use them to your advantage (in Tumuki Fighters) is an interesting concept as well. It reminds me of Trigger Heart, in a way, and we considered that mechanic as well.

I also considered a mechanic where touching slain foes grants you some sort of energy that can be transferred elsewhere (a temporary weapon boost or repairing your mark's hull). Still, a part of me felt it was a little cliche and might make the idea seem tacked-on or contrived. Maybe I'm just being anxious about it.

I liked Captain Forever as well. It seemed to hone in on the original vision I had for the mothership idea where you could see a large portion of your mark at all times and had to move to other locations in order to defend it (less like SHMUP, more like turret defense).

Thanks for all your help so far, guys! I have found a few examples of my own, including the realms of graphics and music. I'm beginning to consider a terrestrial approach to the game's style as well.

Abadox always inspires me when I think of SHMUPS. The game is super grim and yet the idea is simple enough to allow just about any weird, living thing to grace the screen. When I think of the second Rocket Giants idea, I sometimes think of how Abadox always had a strange piece of terrain on-screen (which might have weaponry in it). I started thinking about how those environmental pieces could be used to a player's advantage and whether or not that would still be fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAzzG1Fc ... re=related

Gradius & R-Type (especially the later ones in the series) inspires me, too. You always have to watch the walls and ceilings carefully. Sometimes they shoot at you, other times they're careening towards you and you just can't get out of the way. Again, I'm thinking about how they could be fun if the player had to think about them in a different way (fixing them, defending them, faking enemies out with them, etc).

Romancing SaGa 3 has a few pieces of music that ring well with me. Despite the fact that it is an RPG, I feel I may use this title in my prototype to grasp the classic, grand scale that SHMUPs tend to have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2VlvNVSeQY
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