possible autofire problem?

[mikehaggar]

Hey everybody.,..so I recently ordered a game or two from Fujita, and got an autofire pcb from them as well for 38000 yen...

It arrived today, and upon plugging it in, I notice that it seems to have problems. When I hold the button down, it will activate really fast like it's supposed to, but cut out in tiny intervals every so often....it will work pretty good for the most part, but every 30 seconds or so, you can sense that it has little gaps, or rather, just pauses for split seconds.

I'm pretty annoyed by this, and before I complain to Fujita and try to get another one, I was wondering if anybody here had heard of that sort of thing happening and how it can be undone if possible.

It's those little 3cm x 3cm circuit boards wedged between two jamma fingerboards if that makes a difference...I've seen many pictures of the exact same one posted about,...
similar to this but even smaller: http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/126155182

Thanks for any possible help!

[cools]

Slight tangent, but are you feeding it +5v ?

[mikehaggar]

yep.....

ok, i just tested it on a service menu....

when i hold the button down, it flickers as if it's being pressed really fast, but it's not fully constant....and then, every 8.5 seconds, it thinks it's being held down, then thinks it's not being pressed at all, then goes back to the flickering....almost like it's getting out of phase....

[cools]

Okay, thanks If it didn't, I'd have had a theory about it, but since it does... Sounds faulty to me.

[Dave_K.]

First I hope you typo'd and didn't actually pay 38,000 yen for this!

So it really depends on the rapid fire circuit used, is it synchronous autofire? Does it have a little potentiometer? If its a simple 555 circuit that is attempting to do just 60hz, then perhaps this hiccup is with games that have a display refresh under 60hz? The best autofire circuits are the synchronous ones that key off the game's refresh rate.

[mikehaggar]

yes, major typo... it cost 3800 yen. lol

It has no potentiometer, it's a fixed rate. Though, I think you typo'd and meant 30hz, as 60hz would mean it is just being held down...

Anyhow, the game i'm using runs at 60 frames per second, however, this circuit is definitely wavering....i've read a few threads about autofire since posting and many people seem to use these cheapo circuits that seem to vary in exact rate. I NEED exactness for the game I'm using this with!

Dave,

I remember reading you got one somewhere that was decent.....can you help me out? I really need one...maybe you can point me in the right direction!

[Dave_K.]

Mike, Mak Japan has in stock a 15/30 synchronous autofire adapter with on/off dipswitches per button for both players. This is the main one I use, and only 6,300 yen (http://www.mak-jp.com/ctrbox.html near the bottom of the page 同期連射装置).

Oops, yeah should have said 30hz in my previous post.

[mikehaggar]

Oooh, that one looks quite nice and seems great from your description. Does Mak sell/ship to international buyers? If so, how would I get it?

[Dave_K.]

Not sure to be honest, as I had someone over there buy it for me. You could try emailing them and ask.

[mikehaggar]

Yo Dave,

Can you tell em a bit more about it? I'm not too familiar with all the terminology i think.

So, with the dipswitches, I imagine that you can turn on autofire for either button 1 OR button 2, with the speed choice included...is that right? Where does it route the signal? Does it double it up so that I can have a regular version of the same button, or is each button only normal or autofire?

[Dave_K.]

This particular autofire board has a 15/30 switch which controls the rate across all buttons, and two banks of dipswitches to turn on or off autofire for first three buttons on each player. Dead simple. For those games that also use the A button for charge shot, I made a small mod by soldering a wire to the PCB button input pin, and wire that direct up to the panel. You can then rewire the panel as you deem fit...for example moving A+ over the C button, and then wiring this A override up to the A button. Hope that makes sense. Here are some pics.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Sanwa had made their own autofire PCB, the Sanwa MGM-SS2. Unfortunately, it is OOP (out of production). It, too, has a bank of dipswitches to turn on/off for seperate push buttons + the autofire rate is fixed at a consistent rate as well. One fellow shmupper was willing to pay upwards of $130.00 USD for one but the search for one didn't pan out. Is very HTF in brand new condition nowdays. A photo-copied manual with Japanese text was included if you bought one new back when it was still available for purchase directly from Sanwa.

There are some 3rd-party autofire PCBs that have adjustable autofire rates (adjustable via pot trim setting)...perfect for some of those older mid-1980s Jamma PCBs that don't work so well with an external autofire PCB hack -- i.e.: Konami's 1987 A-Jax/Typhoon PCB is one well known example of not being playable with an fixed-rate autofire board.

Even Capcom's 1986 HyperDyne Sidearms (in both it's original JPN & USA region counterpart PCB iterations) has a built-in autofire rate that is faster than if you were to use an external autofire PCB on it. I've personally tried out an external autofire PCB on my JPN region Sidearms PCB and discovered this little known autofire fact/nugget for myself. Really fascinating that Capcom would include autofire with Sidearms back in the mid-1980s before autofire became mainstream with arcade shmup PCBs in the early to mid 1990s.

You might recall Video System Co. Ltd's 1991 Turbo Force/Hyper Force PCB was one of the first arcade shmup titles to include autofire from the get-go upon inserting a credit and pressing Start. This autofire feature was available for up to three players at the same time...considered a groundbreaking feature for arcades/game centers back in the day.

If one really wants to get fancy/extravagant with autofire, some Japanese PCB gamers use a mixture of autofire PCBs daisy-chianed in a series & plugged into a PC laptop to achieve several different rates of autofire for certain stages, mid-stage bosses & end-stage bosses. This is truly customized autofire at it's best...takes a bit of experimentation/trial & error to find the best autofire rates for each stage for maximum scoring, milking bosses, etc.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Dave_K.]

Right you are PCEFX! Not only did Sanwa make the MGM-SS2 with configurable button assignments, but also its predecessor, the MG04, which had a variable speed potentiometer to regulate the fire rate. They each have their own pluses and minuses in terms of features, which I hope to write a review for sometime soon.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For Dave K.,

I'd like to read your review on both the pros and cons of Sanwa's MG04 and MGM-SS2 autofire boards. Should be an informative and interesting read indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[mikehaggar]

Thanks for the info. I gave up hope finding the sanwa AF board a long time ago seeing as nobody else could successfully get them either!