So, would you say that this is the last hurrah?

[evil_ash_xero]

I had pretty much given up on shmups(although I still played them constantly). I just gave up on anything new.

Has the J360 got you guys going again? It certainly has me. I mean, i'm going to get 3 kick ass shmups within a years time. Hell, lately, you're lucky to get one every few years(if you're lucky).

And yeah, i'm talking about Cave. After the next two, I can't say i'm really interested in their other games(post DS). I don't like the direction they're going in, but they could always get it back together. And everyone else is dead or not putting anything out, save the odd game here and there.

Has this little shot of games on the 360 got you interested in shmupping, as you haven't been in a while? And do you think this could be the "last gasp"?

[drunkninja24]

As long as the fans exist, there will always be something there for them.

[Aru-san]

I'm sorta the same way, too. I've been neglecting STGT even though I said I'd play for ALL weeks.

I've been fading from shmups recently. Though the games I see look interesting and as much as I wanna play them, I just don't feel like investing the import money to get them. I might get Mushi Futari for the 360 (because it won't warrant me $400+ for a new console), but I fear that this purchase may as well be my last shmup purchase.

I guess I'm starting to move on. It's been fun while it lasted...I'll still update the scoreboards, though I won't be playing much like I used to.

I'm getting old....

[Dave_K.]

Seriously, if the 360 is the only thing keeping you interested in shmups, then you were probably just a casual player to begin with. Not that this is a bad thing, but that there is a big difference between fans waiting to play "new shmups" and fans playing the huge back catalog of 90's era arcade shmups. I'm continually finding new interest in old stuff that I passed over when I first got into this hobby, and feel like I'll never get through it all. Playing the real PCBs on cabs maybe has something to do with this, as Mame on a pc monitor and keyboard/pad just never gave me the same motivation or experience.

[captpain]

Seriously, if the 360 is the only thing keeping you interested in shmups, then you were probably just a casual player to begin with. Not that this is a bad thing, but that there is a big difference between fans waiting to play "new shmups" and fans playing the huge back catalog of 90's era arcade shmups. I'm continually finding new interest in old stuff that I passed over when I first got into this hobby, and feel like I'll never get through it all. Playing the real PCBs on cabs maybe has something to do with this, as Mame on a pc monitor and keyboard/pad just never gave me the same motivation or experience.

+1

There are a ton of world-class shmups out there to play and they'll keep being made as long as there's a demand.

[Momijitsuki]

I've only been playing shmups for about two years now, but I do tend to overdo it and get burnt out. Then I switch to my other hobby of anime. Once I get burnt out on that, I go back to shmups. It's a convenient cycle.

[sunburstbasser]

I hear there's a nice doujin selection...

Otherwise, it looks to me like shmups are actually seeing a minor comeback. Taito is re-vamping Ray Storm and releasing the first all-new Darius since G.Darius. Smaller companies like G.Rev and Milestone are still making games and Milestone is even getting US releases. The various download services have made classic shooters available to new audiences. Other games have been strictly download, like Gradius Rebirth and R-Type Dimensions (nevermind that its basically a "prettier" R-Type). Variations on the shmup, like the run-n-gun, are still around with new Contra games, and it wouldn't surprise me if Konami eventually does make a straight shmup, even a new Gradius.

[Elixir]

Let's Forever Hurrah with Shooting Love !!

JP 360 gets me going again? I never stopped. But yeah, went into the whole PCB thing a year or so ago and I had buyer's regret. With my shitty currency and the economy being unpredictable, I can't afford to buy a $900 dollar PCB which has no practice mode, or even the ability to save my scores in some games. This genre is proof that beggars can be choosers since people only like select, certain shooting games that they enjoy.

I tend to go with whatever is new, but at the same time, I still play the PS2 often. I'm a graphics/quality whore, so I have the whole upscaler/monitor thing going on. If it wasn't for the DOJBLEX port sucking, and my 60+ Japanese PS2 titles, I'd probably put it away in favour of the 360 and PS3. PS3's backwards compatibility for PS2 titles isn't perfect (already covered this/cried about this on my blog, so I don't want to get into it again) but it's fine for RPGs and games that aren't so demanding. The 360's backwards compatibility is ass, but I never had any Xbox titles to begin with (aside from 1).

I'll play pretty much any shooting game, so long as it's a) good and b) ported correctly. I dislike checkpoints unless it's for Tatsujin Ou or something as equally as fun, but I still dislike them. Also horizontal shmups. Usually not good. Oh and dying and not being given any chance to get your shit back together. Not good either. There's some games which I'd like to get into, like Garegga, but I don't know how. There's others like Ibara and R-Type which I'm not fond of, but I'll play them every so often, just casually. For the games that I do enjoy (mostly survival based shmups), I really enjoy them.

For me, an enjoyable shooting game has to be something I want to play, but not just because it's a shooting game.

There isn't actually that much when you think about them:

Shiki 3 - port, average, stupid last boss
Shooting Love - fun but short lived
DOJBLEX - maybe if the PS2 version didn't exist
Death Smiles - great port, overall an amazing game
Otomedius - great port, average game, good online co-op
Raiden 4 - average
RFA - good

And that's about it. Really. When I look back, the only one out of those which I want to play is Death Smiles. But it's still nice to have them all on one console. 360 is the niche console in Japan, and games like shumps and visual novels have niche followings. It reminds me of Sega Saturn, although the 360 is on a much smaller scale.

[evil_ash_xero]

Seriously, if the 360 is the only thing keeping you interested in shmups, then you were probably just a casual player to begin with. Not that this is a bad thing, but that there is a big difference between fans waiting to play "new shmups" and fans playing the huge back catalog of 90's era arcade shmups. I'm continually finding new interest in old stuff that I passed over when I first got into this hobby, and feel like I'll never get through it all. Playing the real PCBs on cabs maybe has something to do with this, as Mame on a pc monitor and keyboard/pad just never gave me the same motivation or experience.

OK, I think my original post isn't clear enough. I said I play all the time, but I lost interest in new shmups coming out. And yes, I am playing old shmups all the time that I had passed over and missed. But I mean, it was getting depressing that nothing new was coming out.

It's kind of like you're not a music lover if all you do is listen to old CDs. Of course you are still one, but you get more excited looking forward to new releases.

Make sure you guys understand what I meant there. Now, back on topic, rather than discussing if i'm a "real" shmup fan or not. Which I am.

And my main point is, do you think this is the last gasp of a number of quality shmups coming out around the same time?

Let's not get into this "you're not a true fan" conversation.

[EPS21]

I am very pleased with the direction Cave has been going (except for DS2, no 3-D till its better guys :p), they really do push the envelope for the overall experience you get compared to what was available even half a decade ago. My only worry is that since they nearly have a monopoly as a predominant shmup producing company, the quality of their games might decline and can get away with it, but with the threat of many other smaller producers that could steal their thunder, I don't think its going to happen.

It's purely a matter of opinion whether the direction Cave is going is good or bad. Some people don't like all the loli in their art styles, or maybe some just can't take off their nostalgia goggles and refuse to appreciate what is new just because it isn't exactly like what older shmups are like.

[Rob]

do you think this is the last gasp of a number of quality shmups coming out around the same time?

If the year was 2003, yeah. Oh well.

[evil_ash_xero]

do you think this is the last gasp of a number of quality shmups coming out around the same time?

If the year was 2003, yeah. Oh well.

Well, i'll tell you, at this point 3 titles is a lot to me.

Things have been pretty barren, you have to admit.

Oh, it'll never be 95-99 again...so sad...

[Rob]

The most revitalizing thing the 360 has done is remind me how important quality single player action games are in this hobby. You know, after playing so many games with Xbox Live kids.

[Dragoforce]

Since there is no way in hell that everyone here has played every shmup know to man I say no. Try mastering Raizings, Toaplans, Pskiyos and Konamis back catalog before giving up on the genre. There are so many awesome games that you probably never even heard of, Cave is but a tip of the iceberg.

[Plasmo]

The XBox360 is still a mixed bag for me. On the one side, I'd love to try out Futari, Raiden Fighter Aces, Raiden IV and all the other great Shmups that got a port lately (except Death Smiles, 'cause it looks plain boring), but on the other side, all this stuff about RROD has really turned me off. I'm definitely going to buy it someday, but not before 2012 I guess.
I have to agree with Dragoforce here. There are so many older Shooters worth to be played, it should be enough for years. And even if I would know every single shmup out there, there are still a handfull of them I like to get back to and beat my highscores etc.
Highscore and Strategy talk on exactly this forum is keeping my hobby alive, not new Loli games by Cave.
I don't think I will ever live without a Garegga or Batrider in my room.

[evil_ash_xero]

Never said I was giving up on the genre. Guys, my post is pretty specific.


Just talking about excitement over new releases.

Yes, I haven't played everything...but I think i've played all the REALLY good games.

[THE]

As Cave has gone 3D it could be indeed the last batch of shmups that are relevant to me.
Once a company switched to cheaper 3D they won't come back (or was it ever different? Mobile games and Wii crap aside?).
Cave currently only does ports of their old shit, while that's cool for the non PCB/arcade crowd. For us arcade gamers it's a problem, as there probably won't come more quality 2D games. I have the feeling Cave's time is over, but we will see...I hope they return to 2D, I would get a Type X2+Vewlix for Ketsui 2 HD in true 2D...

[evil_ash_xero]

The XBox360 is still a mixed bag for me. On the one side, I'd love to try out Futari, Raiden Fighter Aces, Raiden IV and all the other great Shmups that got a port lately (except Death Smiles, 'cause it looks plain boring), but on the other side, all this stuff about RROD has really turned me off. I'm definitely going to buy it someday, but not before 2012 I guess.
I have to agree with Dragoforce here. There are so many older Shooters worth to be played, it should be enough for years. And even if I would know every single shmup out there, there are still a handfull of them I like to get back to and beat my highscores etc.
Highscore and Strategy talk on exactly this forum is keeping my hobby alive, not new Loli games by Cave.
I don't think I will ever live without a Garegga or Batrider in my room.

You should try that loli game(DS). It's damn good.

[Dragoforce]

Yes, I haven't played everything...but I think i've played all the REALLY good games.

How can you know that? I guess what you mean is that you played the games that are generally considered "awesome"? There are without a doubt tons of games that are not generally considered to be the best of the bunch, but which you may enjoy a lot nevertheless. Only playing the best games leaves you with no real way of measuring whether a game is really good or not.

I think that people here in general are a little bit too obsessed with Cave. Just compare the size of the Deathsmiles 2 thread (a game which 99% of the forum have never played) with the Darius Burst thread. People need to broaden ther horizons a little bit First everyone was on about Cave not making any ports, now that they are doing ports people complain about them not making a lot of new arcade games.

[Jockel]

The XBox360 is still a mixed bag for me. On the one side, I'd love to try out Futari, Raiden Fighter Aces, Raiden IV and all the other great Shmups that got a port lately (except Death Smiles, 'cause it looks plain boring), but on the other side, all this stuff about RROD has really turned me off. I'm definitely going to buy it someday, but not before 2012 I guess.
I have to agree with Dragoforce here. There are so many older Shooters worth to be played, it should be enough for years. And even if I would know every single shmup out there, there are still a handfull of them I like to get back to and beat my highscores etc.
Highscore and Strategy talk on exactly this forum is keeping my hobby alive, not new Loli games by Cave.
I don't think I will ever live without a Garegga or Batrider in my room.

You should try that loli game(DS). It's damn good.

Its too easy for Plasmo.

[Plasmo]

Its too easy for Plasmo.

I often read about DS being too easy, it certainly is not if you're playing the EX stage and everything on Rank 3. It's just not my cup of tea, the style, the atmosphere, bullet patterns, scoresystem. Dunno...the music's ok, though.

/offtopic

[Elixir]

I think that people here in general are a little bit too obsessed with Cave. Just compare the size of the Deathsmiles 2 thread (a game which 99% of the forum have never played) with the Darius Burst thread. People need to broaden ther horizons a little bit First everyone was on about Cave not making any ports, now that they are doing ports people complain about them not making a lot of new arcade games.

Really? If they keep shoveling out games like Death Smiles II, I don't mind if people jump on the port bandwagon. It would be fairly difficult for a Cave fan not to jump on them when ports like Death Smiles are really well done.

I don't see anyone complaining about Cave not making a lot of new arcade games. They've been making at least one a year since 2002.

[agustusx]

I actually lost sight of new shmups the last generation. I had an xbox, which only had a few shmup import titles. So my last generation experience was essentially Shiki for the xbox which didn't impress me. Perhaps you can count the Ikaruga rehash on the GC, but to me that wasn't new. I was totally unaware of the PS2 shmup library (my bad).

I've never been into collecting PCB's and I stopped looking at games released in J-arcades years ago. It's not fun agonizing on games you will never play since they don't come to your territory. This is doubly true if the arcade game isn't ported to a console you own.

I kept my Dreamcast and Saturn running. But I gave up on new shooters.

Funny to say, but I think What got me back into new shooters was hearing DDP DOJ BLEX was coming the the 360. If this were a PS3 game, I may have never known about it since I typically filter out Playstation news. After some research on where Pachi has been since the Saturn, I found out that I had missed a game on the PS2. Which lead me to dig more into the great selection of shmups on the PS2. I got a PS2 modded and played some old new shmups while waiting for the X360 to pick up some steam. At this point I own roughly the same amount of shooters on the PS2 as the DC.

Now the X360 has a solid start and a great future library forming. If all the games that have been announced or mentioned by Cave get released, then it would be a great generation. Lets hope some of the other developers keep trying as well, or a few new names show up.

I don't think its the last hurrah, but we should enjoy what we can, while we can. You never know when there will be a drought you have to wait out.

[Ruldra]

Since the talk about giving up the genre popped up, I must say that I'm not going to last long in it. I neglected shmups for my whole life (mainly because I didn't know how to play them - didn't know you shouldn't continue), but after playing them almost exclusively for 2 years, and after checking out most of the catalog out there, I feel it's time to move on.

There are a few more shmups I want to beat though, and they're gonna take a lot of time. But after I'm done with that, I guess I'll make a list of all my scores, surrender all my hi-score threads and then retire.

[emphatic]

Cave currently only does ports of their old shit

If only someone could make games these days that hold up compared to their "old shit".

[Domino]

I more or less don't play new STG because they focus more on the characters than on the mechanical designs. I never was attracted to characters, I was more attracted to plane designs and stuff like that. Stuff like the Shikigami series, Cave games (ESP series, Guwange, DDP DOJ and its sequels, Mushi, Death Smiles), and others creeps me out. I don't like the current anime art style, I honestly think it's crap and most STGs have this. I would NEVER play Death Smiles because I found the art style to be complete trash (doesn't help the fact that the girls are too fucking young to be in those dresses and shit looking all sexy and all that). More of less the current anime trends are shit and believe me I have a big problem with plenty of otakus who like that shit.

But sometimes having characters is not all that bad. I like the characters role in Batsugun (when Joker JUN was good). Just see them at the plane select screen, after beating a stage, and ending. Batrider and the Raizing stuff was good for this.

Also it doesn't help the fact that I was never a fan of bullet-hell STGs to begin with. While I did enjoy Batsugun I couldn't get too much into Cave stuff in the first place.

I always prefer Toaplan shooters to my liking. Plus it helps the fact that the artwork in most of their games are amazing (great details) and did you look at their flyers?

I like this art style:



Focus heavily on the mechanical designs (which I quite like).


And I think this is trash:



WTF is wrong with Japan? 10-13 year old girls in that shit and don't forget those flyers in the back have those paper games.




But if you really want to get the best of shmups, get a candy cab. I couldn't agree with Dave enough on this.

[THE]

Cave currently only does ports of their old shit

If only someone could make games these days that hold up compared to their "old shit".

Yeah, that's exactly my point. I want new shit! But I like my shit 2D

[THE]

I never was attracted to characters, I was more attracted to plane designs and stuff like that.

+1

If I want great character designs I play SNK's Vs fighters. I don't like the emphasis on characters in shmups either.

[brentsg]

I want new shmups just as much as anyone and I'm glad to see things like DS2 even if they are off-track somewhat. And given some of the positive comments I've seen EOJ make about DS2 lately, I'm not writing that one off just yet.

But seriously, we should all be energized by the 360 port process and the opportunity to possibly get region free releases. I would honestly prefer they not localize actually, since they'll just embarrass themselves if they "westernize" it. I will say that I do miss the Saturn days of importing and we all know we're not EVER getting that kind of support again for this genre.

And if the new releases get even more thin than they are now, I know I'll never... ever... master all of the shmups I already own. Between the TG16/PCE, Saturn, PSX, PS2, DC, 360... not to mention even older stuff and PCBs. I've already got a lifetime of shooting lined up.

[honorless]

I think that people here in general are a little bit too obsessed with Cave.

The understatement ever. :)

Though the 360 does have me on a shooter kick. I don't know whether it's Raiden IV and Raiden Fighters 1/2/Jet being unexpectedly great or whether it's just temporary delight with a shiny new toy and television I can actually see things on.

Fads are somewhat cyclical. I imagine that a number of years down the road, we'll see another batch of commercial shooter releases bunched up together, and maybe another thread asking if this is where shooters go out with a bang or something. Maybe I'll even still be around to make another jaded-yet-optimistic post in it again (but probably not.)