PCBs: Different region = different gameplay? Why?

[Herr Schatten]

I don't think this has been discussed before.

Why are gameplay changes applied to different regions of PCBs of the same game? More precisely, why are rather obscure gameplay changes made? I'm talking of stuff like the extends in Batrider, different rank-meters in Garegga, additional scenes/enemies in Konami's Aliens, etc.
Is there some guy in the marketing who says: "Well, yeah, it's a nice game, but latest polls show that the extends need to be set at 200k for the chinese market. Our customers there won't accept it with default extends at 100k."?

The only reason I can think of are refinements of gameplay elements that didn't really work in the first version released, but then tthe original version is generally considered the "true" one that is played the most, not the last version released.

I'm really curious about this, as it doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

[Ed Oscuro]

Probably RACISM.

Okay, now that I've done my best to inject that into the debate, there's some documented evidence that there were attitudes about different gaming populations having different attitudes and tastes (the Treasure interview where they talk about Gunstar Heroes getting harder for North America, for instance). Not sure that explains away some of the more obscure changes you mention; the only other possibility I could think of would be some kind of obscure laws in certain territories regarding lives per credit...but this isn't gambling, just gaming.

The major changes in Aliens seem to be (mostly) usual date revisions - rolling out the US version they decided they needed ultra awesome 3D car shooting scenes, ditched the captions, changed the number of rolling aliens (in that one outdoor section), and changed the idle protection to prevent abuse (so I think - been a while since I wrote about Aliens' idle protection but I recall thinking the US version was better).

I think this issue is still alive, although humorously enough it also applies to individual consoles (the example everybody remembers were the various versions of the Soul Calibur games on PS2, GC and Xbox; nowadays it's NieR Replicant which is...a story for another time, surely).

Also, it's been a while since I've heard the Aliens P1 death cry.

[Riot Zone]

I know, there are few differences in the Japanesse version of Crime Fighters compared to the U.S. version.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Even the USA region American Sammy's Daioh PCB has both the USA and original JPN settings, albeit with very different enemy placements, sprites and difficulty settings via a single 2-pin jumper switch setting. It's like getting two completely different versions of Daioh on just one PCB. Of course, by adding the highly touted 6-button configuration compared to the original 2-button layout scheme of the original Daioh PCB -- it is a very different beast indeed. ^_~

You might recall that the USA region Daioh PCB is the only one tate'd shmup title of it's kind to ever have a six-button scheme endowed from the get-go.

I'd have to assume that American Sammy wanted to cash in on the Street Fighter II craze with the six-button layout. It worked like a charm despite the really-nasty ramping difficulty factor by the time you reach Stage 4 and beyond. You could hear some players just shouting colorful obscenities while playing it -- yeah, it was a brutal arcade shmup title back in the mid-1990s (at least for the American arcade scene anyways). Since the USA ver. of Daioh was purely designed to eat quarters by the mouthful, it brought in profits for the arcade operators Stateside (and that was all that mattered).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Specineff]

It's their way of getting back at us for WW2.

[quoth09]

Blarg...I hate this issue as well. Too many games out there that do this crap, and there is no reason for it, other than censoring and companies being wary about cross region ethics issues and other garbage that no one cares about now. Ones I can think of right now:


Thunder Cross - JP version plays like Gradius with it's power-up system, US version has this removed. If anyone has a JP version to sell, contact me. I don't want a damn US one, and I'm tired of seeing them.

Salamander - aka Life Force in the US - same shit as Thunder Cross

Strider - JP version is titled Strider Hiryu, and has voice samples every time you swing your cipher (sword) - US version excluded this

Radiant Silvergun - JP version is 6 buttons...US version with it's knocked down weapons system is only 2 or 3 buttons.

Shadow Force - JP version is great with 6 attack buttons, US version seriously WTF 2 or 3 buttons? Tecmo what were you thinking?

Black Tiger - JP version is called Black Dragon, and while I forget the exact details, part of the game is completely different and harder.

Night Slashers - JP version has RED blood and a cross when character does melee finisher...US, Euro and Korean versions are all mixed bags, either making the blood green or replacing the cross with a stupid looking crystal ball. Data East were you so worried about offending Americans with crosses killing zombies that you had to change it to a crystal ball? No wonder you aren't around anymore.

Riot Zone mentioned Crime Fighters - this is only partially true as there is 2 different versions even stateside on it and it's sequel Vendetta - there is a 2 player version of both games and a 4 player version as well, it mainly has to do with the weapons which I forget the exact details on at the moment, one gives you unlimited ammo but doesn't let you pick it back up if you get attacked and the item knocked out of your hand, and the other gives you limited ammo but you can pick up the item if you get it knocked out of your hand. While there may be differences besides these on the JP versions, you may want to verify that it is simply not one of these differences.


Sorry if I sound a bit hostile on this subject with some of the remarks, but this issue pisses me off to no end and I'm tired of running into it every time I turn around to look at games from back in the 90's and before (sometimes even now) half the time. Someone should make a master list of this crap, because I seriously don't enjoy finding out after I already plonked down cash that another version exists and the one I have is edited or changed due to regional garbage.

I think this issue is still alive, although humorously enough it also applies to individual consoles (the example everybody remembers were the various versions of the Soul Calibur games on PS2, GC and Xbox; nowadays it's NieR Replicant which is...a story for another time, surely).

Indeed it is still alive in the minds of the people who care about it and constantly have to deal with it, like myself and others. Consoles are a similar cry to this issue, and while Soul Calibur 2 is the one I'm assuming you are mentioning there, the PS2 version ran like shit, I don't think Link belonged on the game at all, and while neither did Spawn on the X-Box version, at least he was a cool character, not to mention the best version of the game graphically and sound wise is the one he was on.

Don't get me started on NieR...I won't be likely buying it b/c of all the BS going on with that, I don't care how awesome it is. Same thing in relation to anime; say what you will about Sailor Moon or anime in general, but not releasing a whole season of a show to a region that has previously had 4 seasons of it released, just because all of the sudden the transformations are in regards to gender is a fast way to get a middle finger from me and no cash, not to mention the DVDs they did release were a giant mess.

[BulletMagnet]

The only reason I can think of are refinements of gameplay elements that didn't really work in the first version released, but then tthe original version is generally considered the "true" one that is played the most, not the last version released.

My guess would be somewhere along these lines, that the developers put out a couple different versions with slightly different settings not because they think they'll do better in their particular regions, but to see the general reaction each version gets, so as to know which overall setup is most likely to resonate with customers if used in a similar game in the future. That's the best explanation I could come up with, anyway...or maybe arcade operators in different places prefer different settings in terms of how profitable they'll end up?

[Elixir]

Lethal Thunder/Thunder Blaster come to mind. Think about a shmup, now imagine that all levels and bosses have been changed, difficulty has been rapidly changed and they're basically completely different games. That's Thunder Blaster/Lethal Thunder for you.

Also, Truxton II/Tatsujin Ou. I've been playing this lately in MAME and it's the same deal.

[Domino]

Radiant Silvergun - JP version is 6 buttons...US version with it's knocked down weapons system is only 2 or 3 buttons.

Arcade version should been three buttons am I right?

When I had the Saturn version I played with three buttons on a joystick since using six buttons was too confusing. I would say three buttons for the win.

[elvis]

The Australian version of Raiden Fighters has more ships unlocked by default.

[emphatic]

There's a thread somewhere that discusses the regional differences between the Toaplan games. Twin Hawk/Dasenpu for example has checkpoints in the Japanese version and alternating gameplay. That's true with Twin Cobra as well, making it a "somewhat" harder game.

With these titles, you might suspect that they could be:
a) revisions with improved gameplay (the checkpoints suck ass)
b) more forgiving gameplay for the western audiences (we suck ass)
c) the programmers saw an opportunity to have some fun.

[Skykid]

Undercover Cops - US release is unfinished.

[Ruldra]

The only reason I can think of are refinements of gameplay elements that didn't really work in the first version released, but then tthe original version is generally considered the "true" one that is played the most, not the last version released.

Or the newer version have changes to make it a quarter-muncher. Xexex and Metamorphic Force comes to mind.

Also, Truxton II/Tatsujin Ou. I've been playing this lately in MAME and it's the same deal.

Tatsujin Oh is way harder. It's not really noticeable at first, but after playing both versions for a while you can see it.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Do any arcades games have the same problem as consoles do with NTSC to PAL conversions? Where many PAL games run slower then the NTSC counterpart. Plus what about SECAM that the French like to use just tobe arkward

If so I can imagine possibly some old games been like that but it should have been sorted out for awhile since many PAL countries also use NTSC

[Acid King]

Arcade version should been three buttons am I right?

When I had the Saturn version I played with three buttons on a joystick since using six buttons was too confusing. I would say three buttons for the win.

I'm pretty sure the Japanese STV version is 3 buttons with 6 weapons and the US version is only set up for 2 buttons.

[Specineff]

Konami seems to be the publisher most guilty of pulling this kind of stuff. Why? Was it about maximizing returns for the operators by raping the players' pockets?

[Ex-Cyber]

Do any arcades games have the same problem as consoles do with NTSC to PAL conversions? Where many PAL games run slower then the NTSC counterpart. Plus what about SECAM that the French like to use just tobe arkward

If so I can imagine possibly some old games been like that but it should have been sorted out for awhile since many PAL countries also use NTSC

It's not that much of an issue, because arcade monitors are not TVs (and thus typically don't have circuitry for processing encoded TV signals like NTSC, PAL, or SECAM). There are plenty of games out there that run at timings that don't really conform to any of those systems (e.g. 56Hz, 58Hz)

[Dave_K.]

Cool thread! I knew Daioh had different button options per region, but never knew there were different enemy placement or sprites. I'll have to check this out ASAP on my PCB.

As for Lethal Thunder, all I can say is wow! Just checking it out in mame, it seems like an arranged version of Thunder Blaster. Even the fire system is different, possibly nullifying Rob's comment about autofire breaking the game.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Do any arcades games have the same problem as consoles do with NTSC to PAL conversions? Where many PAL games run slower then the NTSC counterpart. Plus what about SECAM that the French like to use just tobe arkward

If so I can imagine possibly some old games been like that but it should have been sorted out for awhile since many PAL countries also use NTSC

It's not that much of an issue, because arcade monitors are not TVs (and thus typically don't have circuitry for processing encoded TV signals like NTSC, PAL, or SECAM). There are plenty of games out there that run at timings that don't really conform to any of those systems (e.g. 56Hz, 58Hz)

oh ofc monitors don't use TV signals i should of known

[Enhasa]

The only reason I can think of are refinements of gameplay elements that didn't really work in the first version released, but then tthe original version is generally considered the "true" one that is played the most, not the last version released.

Or the newer version have changes to make it a quarter-muncher. Xexex and Metamorphic Force comes to mind.

I lost most of the respect I had for Xexex after playing the original version. Of course, someone starting with the original version might feel the same way after playing the newer versions.

[GaijinPunch]

There's a thread somewhere that discusses the regional differences between the Toaplan games. Twin Hawk/Dasenpu for example has checkpoints in the Japanese version and alternating gameplay. That's true with Twin Cobra as well, making it a "somewhat" harder game.

This is also in V.V <-> Grindstormer. Not sure about the 3-4 foreign versions of Dogyuun. It must be stated that they didn't publish any of those versions.

[bucklemyshoe]

what are all the difference in the jp and us versions of battle garegga?

[Herr Schatten]

It would also be interesting to know who actually applies these changes. Is it the original programmer? The foreign distributor? The publisher?

[gray117]

In general such changes were usually programmer whims; often when design and programming were heavily entwined. Also potentially less/no middle management to pick over his work... The only exception to this will be the producer led changes related to easier difficulty/censorship were it maybe felt needed.

In more recent times the water is generally somewhat murkier - typically due to greater team sizes and divisions of responsibilities. Also these days there is a far greater emphasis on customer feedback and improving/milking an experience.

Usually gameplay changes will be changes that were implemented late in development and maybe not trusted until some testing after initial development of the first native version. Alternatively (and most interesting for more me) there maybe more indulgent reasons for these changes - perhaps if they played it safe for the bulk release but then let someone have his own way with a 'lesser important' region or version of the game.

... I think the truth will only be found on an induvidual basis, and depend very much on the personalities involved.

[lgb]

we need a sticky for this, detailing both the changes made and perhaps the why (doubtful that could be produced)

[Ruldra]

Even the USA region American Sammy's Daioh PCB has both the USA and original JPN settings, albeit with very different enemy placements, sprites and difficulty settings via a single 2-pin jumper switch setting.

So are you saying that the JPN version of Daioh is easier than the US version? I really hope that's true, because the US version has such an insane difficulty it's almost unplayable.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Even the USA region American Sammy's Daioh PCB has both the USA and original JPN settings, albeit with very different enemy placements, sprites and difficulty settings via a single 2-pin jumper switch setting.

So are you saying that the JPN version of Daioh is easier than the US version? I really hope that's true, because the US version has such an insane difficulty it's almost unplayable.

Having played through both loops of the JPN and USA versions of Daioh, by the time you reach the 2nd loop in the JPN one, the bullets are travelling faster than you can move your fightercraft. The scrolling pace on any given stage on the 2nd loop remains the same but the enemy's bullets travel much quicker this time around.

Plus if you reach the final end-stage boss and you get hit by a bullet or a laser beam blast, you'll go back to a preset checkpoint to face the boss all over again with it's health restored at 100%. This senario continues until you run out of lives -- it's a "really" brutal shmup game. This type of senario only applies if you are playing a 1P session (and will apply to a 2P session if certain conditions are met).

If playing a 2P session & both players die on their last lives on the final end-stage boss, upon continuing will return back to the preset checkpoint to begin the trip anew through hell once more.

It seems that both Athena Co. Ltd. and American Sammy have the "last laugh" at the player(s) expense having to credit-feed it just to see the ending staff credits. The USA vresion of Daioh is designed as a pure "quarter muncher" shmup game indeed. ^_~

The ending staff credits of both regions are the same...interesting to learn about this particular fact after all that hard work playing through both regions on both loops.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ed Oscuro]

Hello, market research indicates Americans in the Bible Belt are going to be offended by using a HOLY CROSS to apply the flying holy smackdown to VAMPIRES.

So, let's give him two boomerangs taped together and make him a dungaree!

And that's the story of how Mad City became Bayou Billy.

(In a related story, Europeans are offended by people; they like robots better. Does the Eurovision contest confirm or deny this suspicion? That's a lot of tinsel, there could be people under there.)

It would also be interesting to know who actually applies these changes. Is it the original programmer? The foreign distributor? The publisher?

SNK's US staff couldn't get a polished script applied to most of their own games, despite having prepared it and notified the JPN staff it was coming, so you can safely cross off "anybody outside the building" for most cases.

[Mortificator]

I think one of the reasons for difficulty changes in some old games was pricing: quarters vs. 100 yen coins. The American player'd be spending proportionally less money per play, so the game was made more difficult to compensate. I've heard this quoted as the reason for the Donkey Kong arcade games looping sooner in the U.S.

Koji Igarashi (Metroidvania director guy) has said that in Japan, action games aren't viewed as something everyone can do, while they're more bread & butter in the West. That's why he implemented experience points in his Castlevania games, so people who lacked the skillz could just grind until their character's strong enough to steamroll everything.

The director of Devil May Cry 2/3/4, Hideaki Itsuno, also mentioned this perception as being why the localization of DMC3 was made harder than the original (which ended up biting them in the ass, since tons of people complained it was too hard, leading Konami to release the Special Edition).

It's not too much of a stretch to go from "Americans want action games!" to "Americans don't want games that are too brainy!", which probably explains what Square was thinking with their SNES-era releases and why Nintendo waited more than a decade to localize any Wars or Fire Emblem games. It kind of reminds me of the computer gamer vs. console gamer stereotype, actually.

I don't think there's some universal reason behind all the difficulty changes there've been over the years, though.

[GaijinPunch]

The ending staff credits of both regions are the same...interesting to learn about this particular fact after all that hard work playing through both regions on both loops.

Any chance you have a link or copy of these staff credits? I'm working on a staff roll project, and it's just flat out fucking awesome.