Expensive kits/PCBs and US customs

[brentsg]

I've tried to research and really haven't come up with anything but confusion.

I'd like to import some PCBs from Hong Kong to the USA. Say for example a value of ~$1500 US... What are the customs shenanigans?

I know some people under-declare but I can't figure out the pro/con.

Thanks for anyone that's been down this road.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I've done some business with Hong Kong based sellers but nowhere near the expenditures of what you're inquiring about. I'm sure it would've definitely raise some eyebrows going through U.S. customs indeed with that high of a price tag. Could it be illegal shit inside that cardboard box or is it something else entirely? U.S. mail is X-Rayed for security reasons nowdays due to the infamous 9/11 incident -- wouldn't be a good idea with such valuable and mucho expensive arcade PCBs.

When I came back from Japan to the USA, I went through U.S. customs at the airport and was briefly asked about my extravagant purchases (which had to be itemized and list the exact monetary value of everything paid for in said respective country). I said that all the items were for my personal use and wasn't meant for commercial business usage anyways. The customs agent guy looked at the stash a second time and waved me through. I didn't have to pay a single cent. Whew...talk about a close call right there! ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[brentsg]

I can't imagine how an x-ray could cause any damage to a PCB. I mean every time we fly someplace our expensive laptop computers get x-ray'd every single flight.

Plus I think x-rays are even used in PCB manufacturing and quality control.

But hey I'm an open minded guy from time to time, anyone else have input on this?

Thanks!

[cools]

X-rays won't damage a PCB.

[Ex-Cyber]

X-rays can alter the contents of writable memories such as EEPROM and Flash. How probable that is for any given imaging process is apparently almost impossible to predict with much confidence. There's some widely-reported report (heh) from a photography industry association claiming that airport X-ray scanners were completely safe for "digital film" (i.e. flash memory cards), but their test method was crap. Here's what an actual flash memory manufacturer has said about it:

Evaluations have shown that any X-ray exposure to programmed Flash memory will result in an undesirable shift in programmed bit threshold voltages, the result of which is degraded data readability and the potential for system failure. As such, X-ray exposure should be avoided where possible and minimized where avoidance is not possible.

Due to the variability in Flash silicon, X-ray spectrums and X-ray equipment capabilities, it is not possible to provide specific guidelines on acceptable and unacceptable X-ray exposure criteria, e.g. maximum safe dose rate, maximum safe exposure time, etc....

When X-ray inspection is utilized on Flash memory, Spansion recommends:

• the use of Zn or Al filtering to minimize exposure to harmful soft X-rays,
• the minimization of pre-programming and the replacement of all data exposed to X-ray inspection,
• the minimization of X-ray dosage, energy and flux via selection or tuning of X-ray inspection equipment.

[sven666]

I'd like to import some PCBs from Hong Kong to the USA. Say for example a value of ~$1500 US... What are the customs shenanigans?

I know some people under-declare but I can't figure out the pro/con.

lol, people underdeclare because you pay customs + VAT on whatever the value of your package is.

if customs suspect it might be underdeclared they can hold your parcel untill you proove its value is declared correctly, if you cannot proove it within the timelimit they either ship it back to the sender or send it for destruction, based on what the sender has specified.
If the package is damaged in any way the declared value is the maximum ammount any extra insureance will pay off, those are the risks.

the pro is very simple, if you buy a $1000 game VAT for sweden is about 30% and customs about %7 (plus a handling fee offcourse), that means $370 right out of your wallet into the governemnts pockets just for the package to cross the countries border, easy money.

[Ed Oscuro]

All you need to know about customs tax: USA! USA!

Just ship more of your ladies over here...

$370 right out of your wallet into the governemnts pockets

Good grief that's horrendous, so bad I feel like I'm channeling a minarchist feeling outraged about this. Teh Wiki says your VAT is about 25% though. Other taxes are higher however.

[brentsg]

I'd like to import some PCBs from Hong Kong to the USA. Say for example a value of ~$1500 US... What are the customs shenanigans?

I know some people under-declare but I can't figure out the pro/con.

lol, people underdeclare because you pay customs + VAT on whatever the value of your package is.

Hehe well yeah I understand why YOU do, but I was speaking more specifically of the USA where there isn't any VAT. Like I know we have tariffs on some goods imported from China but I don't know what categories those are and whether not these kits would fall into that scenario.

[yojo!]

I had several $1500+ kit shipped from Excellent.com or legends and never had any issue with the U.S. custom. I always ask them to fill up the custom form with a low amount and as a gift.

[zakk]

You're not going to have any issues; it's not even necessary to have it declared as low value. Your ~$2k PCB kit is an unnoticeable blip; as long as it isn't a bomb you're fine. The US has no 'VAT' equivalent.

You could try sending oxtsu a PM; he's had quite a large amount of stuff shipped from japan over the course of his group orders so if there's any snags in the process he'd probably have hit them.

[quoth09]

I had several $1500+ kit shipped from Excellent.com or legends and never had any issue with the U.S. custom. I always ask them to fill up the custom form with a low amount and as a gift.

Most vendors WILL NOT do this, for the same reason I will not do this on anything but trades.


As far as customs fees etc. I have only run into them 1 time, and it's complete bullshit. No one could give me a straight answer, and I contacted so many customs agencies here in the states, it's not even funny. They just gave me all this crap about it's our fees, and it's here, and it's there, but couldn't tell me what they were for, how they got their numbers, or anything. Nothing that they pointed me to added up. Postal Service yet again in that matter played the whole game of 'it's not us, it's customs', but yet they even had fees on there, and claimed that they had nothing to do with it...yeah, right sure you don't. Also the customs agencies all told me it is random whether or not they will charge them.

If I recall the amount is anything listed over $500 or $300 they charge customs fees on, and only based on the portion above that. Depending on how it is listed category wise on the form, they will charge a percentage based on that, I was thinking it was damn near 10% + fees.

So yeah, anyone that says that US residents do not have to pay customs fees don't know what they are talking about. Keep in mind, out of the whole decade plus I have been importing items, it has only been 1 time for me. Prior to this one time, I was not even aware of this, and assumed it was everywhere but the US that had to pay them.

You can however appeal them after you have paid and they will investigate, though it will be a waste of your time most likely; I got nowhere with mine. You are also required to be offered a receipt of the form as well; if the postal carrier does not offer it to you or give it to you, he can be reported.

Already mentioned above, but VAT is for the UK or Europe only. Any company charging a non-UK/European resident VAT tax can be reported to their government for tax fraud. Same applies for auctions or anything else- if you don't live in the region where they charge VAT tax, they CANNOT make you pay that.

[zlk]

I have ordered many pcbs from Japan and HK and have never had a customs problem.

[neorichieb1971]

The USA was the kindest country to me when importing. Compared to the UK its like absolutely fantastic.

[brentsg]

Well I just completed a significant transaction from Hong Kong to the USA with no issues, and a smaller one containing buttons and sticks for 2 cabs from Japan. No problems whatsoever and no fees or anything.

Thanks to all that replied. Back in the early to mid '90's I purchased a lot of MVS stuff from Japan but I never really gave it a second thought then (nor did I spend a whole lot of money either). Anyways I was rusty and appreciate all the input.

[Ed Oscuro]

I have never had any customs-related issues when importing from another country - let's see, Thailand, Hong Kong, Japan of course, Britain and Spain (just slow shipping from those two nations, IIRC), New Zealand, just to name a few locales with whose residents I've completed successful deals for non-bootleg items (not that I'm red-flagging any locales for being bootlegging centers; but as you see Hong Kong there it'd be hard to guess who that could be).

[Alec]

I've ordered lots of pricey stuffs from excellentcom in hong kong without a hitch, ketsui most notably. I've always had them declare values accurately.

On the other hand, I had a power supply sent here in a group order from Taito Japan or Europe or something once. Customs inspected the box by slashing it open with a knife or razor. They put a big slash in the thing's metal case. I personally didn't care, but if it were a $1500 black label kit or whatever, I'd probably feel very different about the whole thing.

[ASK]

It often depends on who the carrier is. When shipping with UPS you will almost always be hit by customs, including their (last I dealt with it, which was years) "brokerage fee" which totaled about $20, regardless of the customs fee. Being in Canada, whenever I get something shipped from the US, I always go USPS as I've never been hit by customs on packages delivered from them.

Items coming from outside North America is a whole different ball game though. Back in the early 00's, I had a minidisc player shipped to me from Hong Kong that was worth about $300. The seller, without telling me, declared it as a gift of "books" having a value of $20. My package got opened randomly (not all packages crossing the border get checked), and was held hostage by customs for their own reassessed value. In Canada, the CBSA has something called AMPS under their belt now. I don't know if this only applies to freight, but it gives them the ability to fine you $1000 on a first offense of misreporting goods. Importing info for Canada here: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/cpr-crp-eng.html

You're pretty much helpless being fucked over by customs. I once had a package that I paid duties on, then had to return to the manufacturer for repair. When the item came back to me, I had to pay duty again. I filed a claim with customs to either a) get the original duty refunded or b) have the second duty refunded, but they denied both my claims, despite multiple receipts, waybills, etc.

Anyways, dealing with other carriers, some of them bill after the fact. Get something delivered by Purolator, and you may find yourself with a customs bill weeks after receiving the package.

tl;dr: dealing with customs is like playing the lottery, except instead of getting a million dollar payout, you get a dick up the ass.

[jonny5]

anybody in canada who has never gotten dinged with customs with USPS has gotten lucky....