The "I hate MMORPGs" thread

[jp]

I know this isn't the most original topic ever, and I'm sure someone on this site plays MMOs and is going to be offended, but hear me out:



Why is it, that games that involve next to NO GAMEPLAY, have taken over such a huge chunk of the market? And why is it, that every time someone gets into one of these atrocities, they always feel they must shun everyone else in existence and spend hundreds of dollars and God only knows how many hours holed away in a fucking corner of a fucking room to play this drivel?


Around the Everquest days, my hatred towards this genre was minimal. Everyone was playing Diablo, pointing and clicking, I didn't understand the appeal (because it seemed rather pointless and boring to me), and I saw Everquest as nothing more than a more "in depth Character building" version of Diablo. Sure, the handful of people I knew who played the crap were annoying in that they'd always tell me about their "adventures" or whatever, but the genre caused me no harm so I didn't care.

Fast forward to my sophomore year of college. I had a fairly cool roomate who was pretty big into games and was also fairly open minded. Translation: He would play Twinkle Star Sprites with me. Hurray! So we had fun until Final Fantasy XI came out... and then he vanished. At any given time during the day, he would be back in his room, staring at his computer, waiting... yes... WAITING... not playing, not doing much of anything, just WAITING for a creature spawn. And he was paying $10 a month to do this. After about 4 months he quit playing, but by then I was no longer his roomate so it didn't matter. Granted, he only had a short hiatus from MMOs, and eventually found another... and then another.

That summer I had another roomate who was big into some space sim MMO. Fine, cool, I like space ships and shooting shit, so I thought it might be fun to check out. No... no it wasn't. The gameplay comrpised of sitting there and waiting for hours... watching ONE FUCKING SCREEN for hours... and "mining". Once again, he rarely left his room and all of his time was consumed by staring at this static screen and watching a number slowly increase. And once again, he was paying $10 a month to do this. He could just stare at the stock market all day and get this experience! And for free even!

Fast forward to now: A fairly good friend of mine that I used to hang out with at least 3-4 times a week has gotten dragged into Everquest 2. I haven't seen him ONCE in the past month since he started playing this drivel, and its kind of shitty since I was running a DnD campaign for him and his wife. Sure, in 5 months, after hundreds of hours and $100 or so down the drain, he'll get bored and move on to another WoT (waste of time), but it still pisses me off that Satan (or Sony, whichever) has suckered so many people into paying $10 a month to hang out in an over glorified chatroom!


But my point is this: Why the fuck do people pay $10 a month so that they can seclude themselves from their "non-MMO"ing friends and just sit there, not actually having gameplay, but staring at various environments and wandering about an over glorified chatroom? Why? What is the fucking point? I play shmups to improve my reflexes and skill and get an adrenaline rush, and I only play shmups 30 minutes-2 hours a day! And they don't cost me $10 a month to play them!

So help me God, MMOs and reality TV will be the death of society. One turns people into mindless zombies, the other into fucking retards.

[FatCobra]

I never understood the point of MMORPGS either. I really don't like the fact you have to pay each month either. I bought the damn game, stop sucking money out of me. Plus, these games really don't go anywhere in terms of story. Would it really make sense if there are a million choosen ones? I like controlling a ragtag team of adventurers banding together to stop the evil empire, I like having a goal. If I have to level up for a few hours so I can slay that dragon, than so be it. But, I'm not going to sit there for hours on end to just do that. I really don't like games without an end.

[Nemo]

OMG, U do't Lick MMMORPGZ, UR GEY.

[Neon]

When my brother showed me world of warcraft, I just laughed at him. There were these segments where you'd just be on this thing flying around and not doing a damn thing. Then you go buy shit at an auction, or walk around. Good shit.

He got aggravated at my ignorance, I guess which is comparable to people saying shmups are all the same, they don't have a good story, and all the other bullshit criticisms...but I mean, just sitting there for minutes at a time? Goddamn.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Even though I don't like MMORPGs, I see the allure in them (for people who like 'em anyways). I used to play this indie PC RPG that was similar in concept: one big world, do whatever you want, update your character/armor, kill monsters mindlessly. It was a lot of fun, and I freakin' played it day and night for two or so months. It's immersive and I felt like I was in some big adventure.

However, I've gotten over these types of games and don't even want to touch them for fear that I may get hooked. Nowadays, I rather have games like Shmups, lightgunners, beatemups, etc take over my life than a RPG. And they have been since I didn't do so well this semester at college (might have failed a class ).

[FatCobra]

Maybe we just don't get MMORPiGs, just as most people don't understand us shmup-o's.

Still, what's more fun, waiting ten minutes for a creature spawn, or blowing up 100 alien spacecraft in 30 seconds?

[sethsez]

I really don't like the fact you have to pay each month either. I bought the damn game, stop sucking money out of me.

Centralized servers moving many gigs of data per hour cost money to maintain, not to mention the constant upkeep and additions these games require.

Plus, these games really don't go anywhere in terms of story.

Neither do shmups.

I really don't like games without an end.

Some people love 'em.



In any case, these games and shmups have precious little in common. It's like comparing a fantasy novel and a political magazine... sure, they're both forms of written media, but they serve completely different purposes, and liking one doesn't mean you'll like the other. I personally don't care for MMORPGs, but they're not catering to me. They're catering to people who play games almost entirely for the experience. You measure enjoyment in a MMORPG over a period of hours and days, not seconds and minutes. In that sense, it's a lot like a soap opera... there's no end in sight and any individual episode is boring, but when you really get into it a soap opera can be absolutely gripping (my personal vice is Queer as Folk, so I can definitely understand how mediocre episodes can add up to a compelling whole).

And anyway, most of the people who plays these don't become hermits. They generally play for a couple hours each day... just like many people here with shmups.

[roushimsx]

I don't much care about most MMORPGs either, but I've actually managed to find two that I really liked.

Motor City Online was an awesome title that was hacked into being an MMO by EA because it was the in thing to do, much like how we wound up with SWAT 3, by Sierra. Similar to SWAT 3, against all odds the game didn't suck. In fact, it was quite a bit of fun, despite the shortcomings (races limited to 4 players at a time? Time trials being the racing equivellent to level grinding, a grossly inflated economy, etc). The racing model (which was fucking awesome), tracks (which were fucking awesome), and car selections customization options (which were extensive and focused on something other than ricers) pulled me in and wouldn't let me go. Hooked up with a few guys early on and formed our own racing club... had quite a good time with that until EA pulled the plug on it and Earth & Beyond to funnel their resources into that Sims Online abortion. Meh.

Now I'm hooked on Neocron 2, which combines various interface aspects of Deus Ex / System Shock, a first person shooter based combat model, and cyberpunk setting into a pretty fresh and original MMORPG experience. It's not just sitting and mining and it's not sitting around clicking on macros. The main drawback is that the population count sucks, but when you meet up with some people you know in the game and run some missions / grind / assault enemy bases together it's quite a bit of fun. Given that I really like first person shooters, Neocron 2's level grinding is actually fun for me. The other day I spent a good 4 hours running through the slums, fucking up homeless people and junkies. Good times.

So in short, you can't really blanket hate on MMORPGs unless you've really tried to play a few. Paying $10-$15 a month to cover server fees isn't that bad, either. If you're too cheap to cough up the dough, there are various free MMORPGs out there (of varying quality; some excellent, some crap).

[it290]

I got pretty into PSO for a while, but I found I just didn't hav e the time for it, and MMORPGs require a level of dedication even beyond that of PSO. The turn-off to me is the fact that you spend forever building up a character, but that character will always suck compared to those of the people who pour their entire lives into the game. I was a beta-tester for Second Life for a while, though, and that was pretty fun. Definitely not your typical online game.

[Vexorg]

Hey, I play MMOs, and I'm offended! Just kidding.

I actually haveplayed quite a few of the MMOGs (I spent two years playing Asheron's Call back before I started posting here, and I have also spent time in Asheron's Call 2, Motor City Online, Earth and Beyond, Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates (which I still play on occasion), and most recently World of Warcraft, which I have an active account in. I agree that they can be a huge time sink, and especially if you get heavily involved with an in-game guild that becomes a primary social circle of yours, you can end up spending a lot of time there. After Asheron's Call 2, I found myself quite thorougly burned out on MMOGs, and besides PuzzlePirates (which isn't really a conventional MMOG anyway, since the majority of the gameplay is focused on various types of puzzle games) I spent nearly two years out of the MMOGs completely until WoW came along. I followed my former AC guild over, and got pretty wrapped up in that for about 3-4 months. Since that time, my interest in WoW has waned as well, and I probably won't keep my account over there for much longer.

The two things that kept me interested in WoW for as long as I played it for were the friends there, and the auction house. I tend to look at money making as a hobby of sorts. I spent quite a bit of my Saturdays going to garage sales around this time of year and ebaying stuff I find, with some good results. Nothing that I could ever live off of to be sure, but proceeds from my recent eBay auctions of garage sale finds bought me Mars Matrix, Thunder Force V Special Pack and Battle Garegga, with enough left over to seriously consider picking up Radiant Silvergun as well. As such, I found that using the auction house to sell in-game items for profit was quite entertaining, and I managed to make a fairly decent stack of gold to maintain my characters with this way. If it was allowed by the CoC in game, I'm probably the type of player that would be ebaying virtual items for real money (just in case you're looking for another rant over there...) Of course, this tendency seems to have led me to Internet Poker rooms, but that's another story.

[Thunder Force]

If you're looking to get a better understanding of the enjoyment people get out of MMORPGs, check out something like GAMEradio, which sometimes discusses the community culture aspects of these games (EQ2 in particular).

[black mariah]

So you, a fan of a niche genre, can't understand why someone would play the games they do? Take a step back, reevaluate that statement, the pull your head out and just go back to the fucking shmups. Honestly, who gives a fuck why anyone plays anything?

[Diabollokus]

I used to play phantasy star online all the fukkin time, honestly I've probably clocked up over 1000 hrs in that game over 3 years. I haven't played it in a year though and I'm so glad I haven't it really was a waste of time. and my youth that I can never have back.

I think people are drawn in just by the sheer fact your socialising with other gamers working in teams and stuff and some of the adventures are really quite epic like a team of 4 hunters slaying an ice dragon and such + people get obsessed with collecting all the rare items and armours then wasting money buying items for your character online what a waste of money heard some kids made thousands on everquest selling items online.

I would like to play an online rpg again but there are soo many assholes out there and 90% of em appear to have the iq of eight year olds.

[benstylus]

Why is it, that games that involve next to NO GAMEPLAY, have taken over such a huge chunk of the market? And why is it, that every time someone gets into one of these atrocities, they always feel they must shun everyone else in existence and spend hundreds of dollars and God only knows how many hours holed away in a fucking corner of a fucking room to play this drivel?

The reason people play MMORPGs:

1) Character Improvement

Yes, people get a kick out of watching their characters get more and more powerful. Being able to customize every detail about what your character wears and how he/she looks is something that a lot of people take pride in.

2) Social Interaction

Let's face it, most of the people who "pour their lives" into these MMO games are spending a lot of their time in the game chatting it up with the friends they've made in the game. This fills their need for social interaction without actually having to go anywhere and socialize.

3) /Pizza

You can order Pizza in game and have it delivered. (in Everquest, anyway.)

Why I can't figure out why people still play MMORPGs:

1) Monthly fees of $10-$15

That's a lot of money in addition to the $49.99 paid for the game just to keep playing it. If they got rid of fees entirely (like Guild Wars) or reduced them to about $5 per month, it would be much more reasonable.

2) Griefers

Every MMO has people dedicated to ruining the experience for everyone else. Generally these people have had the game since day one and are at the highest possible level. Their joy is derived from kill stealing, PVPing against people who are much lower level than they are, and generally making things as annoying as possible for people who actually want to enjoy the game. Sadly, they almost never get banned because one less subscription equals less money in the bank for the publisher.

3) /sit

Hey let's all go outside the dungeon and sit on the ground for three hours while we recover. These games either need to make healing items much easier to come by or recovery much much faster. If I'm paying to play a game, there's nothing I want to do less than sit with the game running and not be playing.

[Stormowl]

i'm not a big fan of the gameplay in MMORPG's, and the large numbers of people playing them just shows the growing rift between "modern" gamers and those who were raised in the fast paced 2D era.

the thing that really bothers me about MMORPG's is that i've yet to meet someone who played them regularly who still had a grip on reality or responsibility. i posted and thread in the old forum about my brothers obsession with Anarchy Online (he recently closed down his account, and after about a year and a half he racked up 48 DAYS of gameplay).
he has since gotten out of his MMORPG slump, thankfully.

[FatCobra]

I did get into some MMORPGs...although my experiences were short-lived.

I was acutally a Beta tester for Motor City Online. I liked the Hot Rod atmosphere, but it was impossible to get anywhere and I was stuck with a Rustbucket Belair for a long time. Same EA pulled the plug on it, but they're evil like that. It would have made a nice offline game.

Oh well, I have Midnight Club 3 to sastify my hot rod needs.

[roushimsx]

I was acutally a Beta tester for Motor City Online. I liked the Hot Rod atmosphere, but it was impossible to get anywhere and I was stuck with a Rustbucket Belair for a long time.

The Bel Air was pretty awesome just because it was the most lightweight of the starter cars and easy to fix up to be a real street demon. I still preferred my 67 chevelle because of the handling (especially after spending a few hours configuring everything on it)... man...those were some good times. I LOVED how they actually modeled the dashboards for all of the cars. More games need to do that...but it seems like everyone is moving away from dashboard views and sticking with open/bumper views and third person views :'(

[FatCobra]

I liked the dashes too. Classic cars have always looked better than most of today's cars. If course, you can blame tight safety regulations for such ugly things like 5-point steering wheels, plastic bumpers, and jellybean bodies.

But auto makers seem to be going down the retro path now, there's the Chrysler 300C, the PT Crusier, and Ford has really gone retro-crazy with the 05 Mustang, the Thunderbird, and the new GT40. Heck, even three point steering wheels are coming back and classy gauges are coming back.

[dave4shmups]

I really don't like the fact you have to pay each month either. I bought the damn game, stop sucking money out of me.

Centralized servers moving many gigs of data per hour cost money to maintain, not to mention the constant upkeep and additions these games require.

Plus, these games really don't go anywhere in terms of story.

Neither do shmups.

I really don't like games without an end.

Some people love 'em



In any case, these games and shmups have precious little in common. It's like comparing a fantasy novel and a political magazine... sure, they're both forms of written media, but they serve completely different purposes, and liking one doesn't mean you'll like the other. I personally don't care for MMORPGs, but they're not catering to me. They're catering to people who play games almost entirely for the experience. You measure enjoyment in a MMORPG over a period of hours and days, not seconds and minutes. In that sense, it's a lot like a soap opera... there's no end in sight and any individual episode is boring, but when you really get into it a soap opera can be absolutely gripping (my personal vice is Queer as Folk, so I can definitely understand how mediocre episodes can add up to a compelling whole).

And anyway, most of the people who plays these don't become hermits. They generally play for a couple hours each day... just like many people here with shmups.

Well spoken Sethsez, I completely agree. And let's not forget about the fact that there are plenty of people out there who let other types of games-INCLUDING shmups-completely suck up their lives. It's all about balance and discipline, and IMO, it's the increasing lack of these qualities that will ultimately destroy this country.

And JP, please refrain from comparing Sony to Satan; honestly, your anti-Sony bias is getting WAY out of hand. There are certain gaming companies I don't care for, but I'm not going to compare them to Satan, Stalin, Hitler, Osama, or whoever else.

[jp]

I got pretty into PSO for a while, but I found I just didn't hav e the time for it, and MMORPGs require a level of dedication even beyond that of PSO.

I've never really considered PSO a true MMORPG. I used to play it on the DC and briefly on the Gamecube, and my thoughts on that was "Hey, at least I have to dodge attacks and time combos." Though it does get old very fast once the novelty wears off. At least for me it did.

So you, a fan of a niche genre, can't understand why someone would play the games they do? Take a step back, reevaluate that statement, the pull your head out and just go back to the fucking shmups. Honestly, who gives a fuck why anyone plays anything?

Maybe because its affecting MY social life? It sucks when you have friends that remain holed up in dark corners all day every day because they're obsessed over camping out on some monster or earning enough gold to buy x amount of materials to do something else that will waste hours upon hours...

Not to mention the whole "Lets sit around and talk about how we camped today!" I don't fucking care. I don't sit around telling people about how I 1CC'd Souky, Radiant Silvergun, and Batsugun (mind you, those would probably make much more thrilling stories), so why are people feeling compelled to tell me about their adventures in "waiting"?

But my reasoning behind hating the genre is how it seems to be sucking away the damn souls of people.

"Hey guys, lets go catch a movie/go ghost hunting/play some Twinkle Star Sprites/etc.."
"No, we've got to sit around and wait for an hour for this creature to spawn."

Huh? What? Wait? Me telling someone I can't do something for the next few minutes because I'm in level 5 of Rayxanber II is a whole different story than someone telling me they can't do something because they're busy WAITING for a few hours for a creature that 50 people are sitting around waiting to kill.

And JP, please refrain from comparing Sony to Satan; honestly, your anti-Sony bias is getting WAY out of hand.

I don't seem to recall asking or caring about your opinion on this matter. I keep that stuff in check most of the time in other people's threads out of respect for the author, but in my own threads I think I can say what the hell I want. If you have a problem with that, then stay the fuck out of my threads.



At any rate, I think I could understand people playing Motor City Online (since you're racing, and there is GAMEPLAY) or Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates (since there are puzzle games and hence, GAMEPLAY) and even that Shadow Run (I think?) game where you can create your own cities and all of that, since you have control over the gaming environment.

But not this Everquest, City of Heroes, Final Fantasy XI bullshit. You just make the same handful of characters over and over and over for hours and hours and hours, and on top of that very little actual gameplay is involved. Meh, fuck that.

[benstylus]

Not to mention the whole "Lets sit around and talk about how we camped today!" I don't fucking care. I don't sit around telling people about how I 1CC'd Souky, Radiant Silvergun, and Batsugun (mind you, those would probably make much more thrilling stories), so why are people feeling compelled to tell me about their adventures in "waiting"?

Gotta agree with you there - I've got a friend who is way into MMO's - I hardly see him in real life anymore, but he calls me about twice a week, and if I pick up the phone, he'll be talking to me and playing the MMO at the same time, endlessly telling me about what he's just done - though whenever I talk to him, he's camping or waiting or resting or something.

It's gotten to the point where I only answer his calls about once a month - and then only if I'm really bored.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Once, I asked one of my friends how he could stand paying for online fees, and he told me, "There's so much to do in this game (WoW) I don't have to buy a game every month." Makes some sense if you ask me. I waste more than thrice he does a month on videogames.

But then, I don't sit waiting in my videogames. Time to waste more cash. hohohoho.

[Shatterhand]

This all has to do with the fact that the world is in a chaotic state, and people are trying to compensate stuff they don't have with other stuff that just isn't good enough.

[captain ahar]

i have a cousin is absolutely freaked over WoW (he actually calls it this). sounds interesting to hear about but a boring bear to play. although, i can't sit through a final fantasy or chrono cross/trigger these days.

anyway, i'll play Twinkle Star Sprites with you, jp. only reason i haven't bought it yet is because no one i know gives a crap about these games. showed my brother DOJ and ESPgaluda a few days ago, told me they looked "nice."

[raiden]

I don't seem to recall asking or caring about your opinion on this matter. I keep that stuff in check most of the time in other people's threads out of respect for the author, but in my own threads I think I can say what the hell I want. If you have a problem with that, then stay the fuck out of my threads.

so that´s the new way of saying "lalala... I can´t hear you". And a great concept for interesting discussions: each thread poster determines which opinions may be voiced in his thread? Might as well start talking to a wall, then. Oh, and btw. SONY RULES.

This all has to do with the fact that the world is in a chaotic state, and people are trying to compensate stuff they don't have with other stuff that just isn't good enough.

a little cryptic, but it makes some kind of sense.

[jp]

I don't seem to recall asking or caring about your opinion on this matter. I keep that stuff in check most of the time in other people's threads out of respect for the author, but in my own threads I think I can say what the hell I want. If you have a problem with that, then stay the fuck out of my threads.

so that´s the new way of saying "lalala... I can´t hear you". And a great concept for interesting discussions: each thread poster determines which opinions may be voiced in his thread? Might as well start talking to a wall, then. Oh, and btw. SONY RULES.

No, thats just my way of telling people to cease trolling my threads and bitching at me about stuff that the topic isn't even about.

[raiden]

bitching at me about stuff that the topic isn't even about.

so why did you mention it, then?

[sethsez]

Maybe because its affecting MY social life? It sucks when you have friends that remain holed up in dark corners all day every day because they're obsessed over camping out on some monster or earning enough gold to buy x amount of materials to do something else that will waste hours upon hours...

I have two friends who are into MMORPGs. One's into WoW, and the other's into City of Heroes. They both still have social lives.

At any rate, I think I could understand people playing Motor City Online (since you're racing, and there is GAMEPLAY) or Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates (since there are puzzle games and hence, GAMEPLAY) and even that Shadow Run (I think?) game where you can create your own cities and all of that, since you have control over the gaming environment.

But not this Everquest, City of Heroes, Final Fantasy XI bullshit. You just make the same handful of characters over and over and over for hours and hours and hours, and on top of that very little actual gameplay is involved. Meh, fuck that.

Once again, there is gameplay. Christ, that's all there is in MMORPGs. It's not the same kind of gameplay that you find in action games, but that doesn't matter. And like I said, enjoyment is measured in hours, not minutes. There's no immediate satisfaction in a MMORPG, but the end result can still be extremely fun.

To use another analogy, compare it to putting something together. A car, let's say. No individual step is fun in the slightest... it's the overall experience that's enjoyable.

I have to agree with a few other people here... this does sound very familiar to anyone who's ever heard "what, so you just move a little ship around, avoid pink dots, and then the game is over in 20 minutes? Where's the fun in that?!"

[Specineff]

PSO is still my bread and butter, but only because I can leave it, and come back one month after that, and still enjoy the gameplay. Besides, I play on the free server.

[black mariah]

"Hey guys, lets go catch a movie/go ghost hunting/play some Twinkle Star Sprites/etc.."

So when it's a video gaming activity that YOU want to participate in it's okay, but when it's something you don't like it's not okay. Hypocritical bullshit.