Granada appreciation thread

[louisg]

I've been playing Granada on Megadrive a lot lately, and have to say that the game is pretty underrated. First, let's get what's wrong with the game out of the way: It's choppy, lacks graphical polish, sometimes it's hard to tell what exactly is going on with a boss, and it has some dubious collision detection between enemies and scenery.

But, on the other hand, the core game is fun and has a lot of variety, as well as memorable music. Almost every level has different powerups, and graphics aren't recycled very often. And even though the game is free-roaming, the levels aren't filler.. you can't just rush through them. They're maze-like, but not so much that navigation is ever frustrating.

Does anyone else dig this game? What about the differences between the Genesis and X68k versions? Finally, I saw The Coop had posted a scan of a mag review of Granada earlier, but it is down. Would it be possible to re-upload that?

[Hibachi]

I really enjoyed this back in the day.

Anyone know what Wolf Team are up to now?

[Pixel_Outlaw]

Most of the early console games nobody touches around here. There are plenty of good console games that are underrated. I just got done playing the old Genny and NES myself. Granada is a solid game. If you like Renovation try Gaiares and also Arrow Flash.

[ZOM]

Anyone know what Wolf Team are up to now?

Long story short: Some members left and created and worked for Tri-Ace in the mid nineties, the rest eventually became the Namco Tales Studio Ltd.

[louisg]

Most of the early console games nobody touches around here. There are plenty of good console games that are underrated. I just got done playing the old Genny and NES myself. Granada is a solid game. If you like Renovation try Gaiares and also Arrow Flash.

Gaiares is very good (albeit a little too hard).. couldn't get into Arrow Flash. BTW you know any good Granada boss strategies? St 5 and 6 bosses are pretty tough. I'm not totally sure what's going on with the st5 one-- you can sort of go inside the boss without taking hits, and that seems to be one of the better ways to do it (??). Not totally sure what's supposed to be happening there. On st6, I just end up throwing a bunch of lives at it =)

[Ed Oscuro]

Granada is probably my most recent X68000 purchase.

[gameoverDude]

Wolf Team is still around as Namco Tales Studio. I wish they'd take a break from the Tales RPGs and bring out a Granada sequel.

The rotating effect on the stage 2 boss is awesome. While the graphics may be a little rough in some spots, they excel in others. EGM compares this to Assault, but it's kind of different - you need to think a little more to find your way through the level, while keeping a lot of time left over for the bonus. There's a bit of Gauntlet in here as well.

From YouTube vids, the X68000 one takes a good game and makes it awesome. Shame the Sega 32X didn't get a direct X68000 port of Granada - there's a game that would've been worth $70 for me. The parallax in stage 2 is sick, and the voice quality is crisp.

[Shatterhand]

Granada is pretty good indeed, very underrated.

Arrow Flash is pretty meh. Gaiares in the other hand is AWESOME. But I don't think those 3 games were made by the same people, were they?

[Nukebelly]

Yeah.. I bought Granada in the summer of '90 and I remember swappin it with my buddy for his Gaiares. As good as Gaiares was, it was still a horizontal shooter. I hadn't played anything else like granada. It took me a long time to finally beat it and it's one of a couple of genny games I would like to play some more of right now..

[Ed Oscuro]

Arrow Flash is by Vic Tokai I think.

It's not much like Grenada, but there's Final Zone: Senki Axis, which got ports to a number of systems (Genesis and X68000 and I think some other computers, possibly NEC and/or MSX - Edit: I see Final Zone II is a PC-Engine CD title, maybe that's it, though I thought I still remembered another PC port). The list on GameFAQs seems to be confused; the "Axis" for X68000 is Final Zone, I'm sure of it. Can't forget about Mid-Garts either (though that's more of a shmup).

[Shatterhand]

There's an MSX game called Final Zone which is an overhead shooter more akin to Ikari Warriors.. you can only move upwards on screen.

The interesting thing on that game is that you had to choose 3 soldiers out of 5 to play the game, and you would control all 3 characters on screen at the same time. If I remember correctly, each one had a different weapon and different "stamina". You could change their formation by pressing the 2nd button, to try to cover bigger areas or stay closer in an easier formation to dodge incoming fire.

There were also some LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG cut-scenes between levels which couldn't be skipped (you could just fast forward the text), which were really annoying since it was all in japanese.

[ZOM]

FZ:Axis (X68K) and Final Zone II (PCE) are nothing alike, dunno how they are related, really. The former is a isometric "granada-like" search&destroy mecha shooting game, while Final Zone II is a typical overhead character shooter (with hilarious voice acting). I'm not sure if Axis really is Final Zone's prequel. Thanks in advance if someone can clear this confusion up.

EDIT: After reading Shatterhand's post, that particular MSX Final Zone sounds much more like a prequel to PCE's Final Zone II. The lengthy cutscenes would fit the bill too...

[Shatterhand]

That's the MSX game I am talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH7WsiqV9J8

It's not the MSX version though. The graphics on the cut-scenes seems to be a little better than on the MSX version, but the gameplay is pretty identical. The music sounds a bit worse on this though.

It seems it was developed by Wolf Team and published by Telenet Japan.

[Magic Knight]

I have that MSX version, it's Final Zone Wolf. Opening cutscene takes ages. Never got to actually play it properly, just enough to test it. Sold it this morning on ebay. I have both FZ Senki Axis and Granada on X68000 but haven't really gotten around to playing them at all yet.

[ZOM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH7WsiqV9J8

Ok, that video is pretty much enough confirmation for me that it's Final Zone 1 and FZ:Axis is some kind of gaiden or sidestory whatever. Seems like the game originated on the PC-8801 and got ported to various Japanese gaming PCs.

For reference,
FZ Axis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRfTR4xXHGg
Final Zone II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9cMXdErtis

BTW, sorry for the slight thread derail.

[Magic Knight]

This guy has written about the series:

http://www.gamespot.com/users/Panzer_Zw ... 0-25567967
http://www.gamespot.com/users/Panzer_Zw ... 0-25567978

[louisg]

I just got to the last area with plenty of lives to spare and.. WOW.. this is pretty spammy. Anyone got any tips? It appears the way to take on the bases in this level is with the cannon, so you can shoot those little red shots. They're patterned, but I don't think they're completely dodgable without shooting them down.

Maybe I should start a strategy thread =)

[ZOM]

This guy has written about the series:

http://www.gamespot.com/users/Panzer_Zw ... 0-25567967
http://www.gamespot.com/users/Panzer_Zw ... 0-25567978

Very interesting read. Thank you for the links.

[Stormwatch]

What ruins Granada is the Genesis' controller. Multidirectional shooters simply don't work right without a SNES-like controller, or two sticks, to move and fire independently.

[gameoverDude]

What ruins Granada is the Genesis' controller. Multidirectional shooters simply don't work right without a SNES-like controller, or two sticks, to move and fire independently.

That probably would've been an optional control setup in a SNES version, with ABXY to aim and L&R to fire the cannons/guns. I don't think the Genesis/X68000 control scheme breaks it however- but I do admit a few spots in the game are slightly tough with this control scheme.

Arrow Flash was developed by Sega, not Wolf Team or Telenet. This was probably a sequel to their arcade title Astro Flash/Transformer - which itself seems to be a followup to Transbot (SMS). Sega released the Japanese MD version theirselves as V-Attack.

[louisg]

Yeah, the controls aren't ideal, but they can be configured.. I like using lock+cannon on A since you don't have to hold down two buttons all the time. You can also set strafe as a toggle, and some other options. I'm not sure it would've exactly made sense in a tank game to have a Smash TV style setup, since the tank has to turn through different angles, and it's hard to roll through directions without an analog stick.

[Andi]

Gaiares in the other hand is AWESOME. But I don't think those 3 games were made by the same people, were they?

I love how all the bosses are giant robotic women. The mermaid boss is a particular favorite of mine.

There's an MSX game called Final Zone which is an overhead shooter more akin to Ikari Warriors.. you can only move upwards on screen.

The interesting thing on that game is that you had to choose 3 soldiers out of 5 to play the game, and you would control all 3 characters on screen at the same time. If I remember correctly, each one had a different weapon and different "stamina". You could change their formation by pressing the 2nd button, to try to cover bigger areas or stay closer in an easier formation to dodge incoming fire.

Sounds cool. A bit like Mercenary Force on the Gameboy (which also has selectable characters that you put into different formations).

[Shatterhand]

It's not really that cool. Everything flickers badly, the bullet visiibilty is horrible, the scroll is incredibly choppy, most of the time you can't understand half of the shit that's happening on screen. When I was a child I had lots of free time, I can't believe I wasted so much time playing so many shitty games

[Ed Oscuro]

Multidirectional shooters simply don't work right without a SNES-like controller, or two sticks, to move and fire independently.

The SNES pad ruins Ikari no Yousai / Operation Logic Bomb. The triggers won't stay depressed...needed to be a toggle almost.

[Hibachi]

Anyone know what Wolf Team are up to now?

Long story short: Some members left and created and worked for Tri-Ace in the mid nineties, the rest eventually became the Namco Tales Studio Ltd.

Thanks for that.

I love the Tales games so it's nice they've moved to something that I enjoy despite not knowing.

[gameoverDude]

Multidirectional shooters simply don't work right without a SNES-like controller, or two sticks, to move and fire independently.

The SNES pad ruins Ikari no Yousai / Operation Logic Bomb. The triggers won't stay depressed...needed to be a toggle almost.

Logic Bomb is definitely better with an arcade stick. Some games just don't go well with SNES pads. I couldn't be bothered to play Street Fighter II using one, and was REALLY thankful for the arcade stick I had gotten for Christmas at the time.

The idea of a Granada sequel developed jointly by Tales Studio and some other Namco staff (e.g. any members of the Assault team who may still be there?) gets me ready to drool. Dual Shock 3's right stick could be used to rotate the turret- without snapping to the direction ala Smash TV so that turning while holding down fire could give a sweep shot effect.

It probably won't happen though. That said, those are 5 words I'd like to eat.

[beam]

This is also a fav of mine from the days of old ! More than ten years and still rocking my megadrive !
An underrated gem. A wonderful soundtrack which keeps you on track when you lost (be sure to play on MD1 the bass are more pumping than on a later MD).
I'm a Wolfteam whore too, Motoei Sakuraba was a genius in handling old music hardware.

Never played the x68000 version but I always heard it was the better one because of the story snippets which vanished in the MD port.
There is more detailed comparison between versions there

For those who their dungeon crawler oldschool you may enjoy Arcus 1 2 3 ...

And last but not least :
http://uk.geocities.com/wolfteam_renovation/
http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2007/12/col ... elenet.php

[louisg]

Never played the x68000 version but I always heard it was the better one because of the story snippets which vanished in the MD port.
There is more detailed comparison between versions there

For those who their dungeon crawler oldschool you may enjoy Arcus 1 2 3 ...

Thanks for posting those! The comparison is interesting, though I think the Genesis version does run at 30fps-and-dropping too (drops and not slowdown I thought). I wonder which level is new in the Genesis one.

Arcus 1 & 2 are traditional RPGs with 3 being Odyssey, right?

[No_not_like_Quake]

No, Arcus 3 and Arcus Odyssey are not the same games.

Would love to play the X68k version of AO. Granada and Sol-Feace are both superior on that machine.

[ZOM]

No, Arcus 3 and Arcus Odyssey are not the same games.

Would love to play the X68k version of AO. Granada and Sol-Feace are both superior on that machine.

Arcus Odyssey on X68K is ace. Better visuals, better sound, and IMO better controls(not very different, it just feels a bit more fluid).