Rayforce on Saturn vs Taito Memories II Joukan

[BIL]

(obligatory: Rayforce, aka Layer Section / Galactic Attack / Gunlock)

Trying to figure out which of these two to get. Can anyone help me out with a few pros and cons for either (or better yet, a direct comparison)? Either would be simple to acquire, so availability's not an issue. I know both have TATE, but that's about all. From a search around here and elsewhere, both seem pretty well-regarded.

I am leaning towards TMII in the hope that it's got arcade-accurate extend settings (1mil - Saturn ver is locked at 500k, unless I'm mistaken).

[MathU]

If you're just wondering which to get, might I recommend the PC version of Taito Legends II? You can zip up the ROM's in it and play them right through MAME. Rayforce plays pretty much perfectly.

Plus it's only like $10.

[Raizen1984]

The PC version of Taito Legends II has nasty DRM, if I remember right. It screwed up my computer when I installed it.

I have the Saturn version and am pretty happy with it. It might actually be cheaper than TL2 as well.

[MathU]

Yeah, it uses Starforce, but if you don't use their program, you never have to deal with it. Just run the games through MAME.

[Raizen1984]

If you're going to just run it through MAME, why not just download the free ROMs? Especially if all TL2 is just a bunch of zipped ROM files running off an emulator.

[BIL]

Thanks for the suggestions. I would consider going with TL2, but I'm looking to play on a console in tate. MAME itself runs RF pretty well aside from an unfortunate glitch with Stage 3's miniboss (twin green lasers don't fire, poor bastard got nerfed).

Something tells me I'll go with the Saturn ver for now to be safe. I know it's always been held in high regard, like many Saturn F3 ports. TMII Joukan is dirt cheap even brand new anyway, I can probably check it out later. I am still very curious about its Rayforce quality, though.

[BulletMagnet]

I THINK you can adjust the extend settings in the Saturn port, but I'm honestly not sure, I'd need to check. In any event, it doesn't have any "extra" stuff on it, but plays well - the Taito Memories 2 version is fine too, though visual perfectionists will probably rag on the imperfect resolution and whatnot. You can't go too wrong either way.

[BIL]

Ah yes, I'd heard about the TMII resolution. Sounds like a similar case to Sengoku Blade SS vs PS2 graphics. Never really bothers me as long as the game plays arcade-standard. I'm usually on lowly PS2 pack-in cables anyway, heh.

[Mortificator]

I THINK you can adjust the extend settings in the Saturn port, but I'm honestly not sure, I'd need to check.

I don't remember if the extend rate could be changed, but the number of starting lives couldn't. You'd always begin with three lives and five credits (nine credits with a code).

[MathU]

MAME itself runs RF pretty well aside from an unfortunate glitch with Stage 3's miniboss (twin green lasers don't fire, poor bastard got nerfed)

Hmm, I always forget about that. I usually end up just dodging like they're there anyway. I wish they'd fix it already.

[BrianC]

Actually, the lasers do fire in Rayforce, but are invisible. What's odd is that when played via the TL2 PC interface, the lasers show up. TL2 PC has an outdated ROM of Elevator Action 2 (the lighting doesn't darken like it should when a light is shot) and no mouse support (or even a fast button for Puchi Carat like TL2), though.

[BIL]

At least back in early 2008, I couldn't make any contact with the (audible) lasers whatsoever. Maybe it's been semi-addressed (although invisible lasers sound potentially infuriating)?

This was with a random Rayforce ROM off the internet and command-line MAME, however.

[professor ganson]

Sorry if I'm way off, but I though TM didn't have tate option. So am I way off?

[Observer]

Wait, I recently bought the PC re-release of Layer Section (also known as "awesome lock-on guided laser missiles"), which is part of the Ultra Series published by Cyberfront/Mediakite. Btw, long live Cybefront for bringing Raiden III and Shiki 3 for PC. Screw Mame. Come on, Cave, kill Mame once and for all with your godly and tr00, kvlt KETUI PC port by Arika-Arakika or its de facto doujin version and Espaldadura II for the Jaguar.

Ok, I went overboard with the silly randomness. Back to Layer Section:

http://www.comshop.ne.jp/items/item-100432.html

Available at Amazon.jp for 1.5k yen

Is this one based on the Saturn port or is it a direct arcade conversion? The only thing I know is that the music is in glorious redbook audio. Eh, guess I'll find out how it plays once it arrives.

Perhaps you could hunt for this version? Raycrisis has also been released in the same series.

edit: about the scary and awful DRM... Pressing shift when you place the CD didn't use to solve that with older PC releases? I cannot remember if it also worked with the zombie CDs of EMI with that infamy/insult called "Copy Control".

[BIL]

Sorry if I'm way off, but I though TM didn't have tate option. So am I way off?

From what I've read, the original Taito Memories Joukan & Gekan discs lack tate. Taito Memories II Joukan & Gekan both have it.

Is this one based on the Saturn port or is it a direct arcade conversion? The only thing I know is that the music is in glorious redbook audio. Eh, guess I'll find out how it plays once it arrives.

I've tried out a Windows version of Rayforce, and it was limited to the Saturn version's chopped yoko screen format. Which effectively makes playing for score impossible, since enemies you need to lock onto just aren't visible. Seemed to run okay otherwise, but I definitely wouldn't bother with that version for competitive play.

[Limbrooke]

Sorry if I'm way off, but I though TM didn't have tate option. So am I way off?

From what I've read, the original Taito Memories Joukan & Gekan discs lack tate. Taito Memories II Joukan & Gekan both have it.

No, the Taito Memories 2 series does not have TATE. They have hardly any options at all, less than Taito Legends 2 as a matter of fact.

Get the Saturn game or if all bets are off, the F3 version. The Saturn version is very cheap so you cannot go wrong.

[antron]

Actually, the lasers do fire in Rayforce, but are invisible.

wow, and for a while there I was thinking I was crazy for building console to JAMMA adapters when I could just use MAME and Ultimarc. The Saturn gives me Batsugun and Layer Section in better forms. These PCB have gotten too expensive.

[BIL]

Sorry if I'm way off, but I though TM didn't have tate option. So am I way off?

From what I've read, the original Taito Memories Joukan & Gekan discs lack tate. Taito Memories II Joukan & Gekan both have it.

No, the Taito Memories 2 series does not have TATE. They have hardly any options at all, less than Taito Legends 2 as a matter of fact.

Get the Saturn game or if all bets are off, the F3 version. The Saturn version is very cheap so you cannot go wrong.

Damn. That sucks, I don't know what gave me the impression TMII had TATE.

[professor ganson]

Yeah, in that case you definitely want to go for the Saturn version, imo. So good I'm not even tempted by the arcade board which typically runs around $90.

[BIL]

Actually, I remember why I thought so now. I'm confused.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... TE#p301717

edit: but, anyway, just going to go with the Saturn version for now. Thanks all!

[professor ganson]

That's strange. I'm dubious that it has tate. We'll have to ask GameOverDude about that one.

[antron]

Yeah, in that case you definitely want to go for the Saturn version, imo. So good I'm not even tempted by the arcade board which typically runs around $90.

$90 where? yahoo actions japan?
coinop has one for $450. They are usually off, but not that off.

[professor ganson]

Yeah, in that case you definitely want to go for the Saturn version, imo. So good I'm not even tempted by the arcade board which typically runs around $90.

$90 where? yahoo actions japan?
coinop has one for $450. They are usually off, but not that off.

Oh wait, I'm probably thinking of the price for RayStorm. You'd think I'd no longer confuse them after so many years.

[Ghegs]

Sorry if I'm way off, but I though TM didn't have tate option. So am I way off?

From what I've read, the original Taito Memories Joukan & Gekan discs lack tate. Taito Memories II Joukan & Gekan both have it.

This is the correct answer. I just verified it with my own Taito Memories II discs and played some Rayforce in tate.

[BIL]

Excellent, thanks for the clarification! Good to know the PS2 version is still an option.

[professor ganson]

Excellent, thanks for the clarification! Good to know the PS2 version is still an option.

That is cool to hear. Thanks for checking, Ghegs!

[Acid King]

Never tried the PS2 version but the Saturn version is pretty awesome.

[Ghegs]

Seems the tate-functionality of Taito Memories II has become the stuff of myths and legends since I just got asked how to do it. So, here's how:

The setting is in each game's own options menu, the one where you set the key mappings, difficulty levels and other stuff. The following screenshot is from Rayforce's:



The highlighted option is the one you're looking for. Change it from that...



...into this. BOOM, tate. You can also rotate the screen the other way (so that the right side of the tv/monitor becomes the bottom) by picking the third setting.

[BIL]

Hell yes. That's a meaty options screen.

[RoninBuddha]

WOW, thank you.. and here i was thinking TaitoMemories was TATE-less

i'ma see if space invaders has tate.. just for lulz