Why is this hobby so damn expensive?!

[evil_ash_xero]

I've been playing Zanac Neo and Harmful Park lately, and when I went to check them out on Ebay, Zanac Neo is over 100 bucks, and freaking HP is around the 250 mark.

What the hell is up with that? I mean, is there any genres that are as consistently pricey as shmups?

I had better get Death Smiles(and later on, a J360) before it goes through the roof....

Maybe I could sell a kidney?

[mrtie]

I think it's three main reasons.

1. Small print runs: even though it's niche hobby, without any western releases the very small japanese print runs make the games very scarce over the course of time.

2. Increased exposure due to the rise of the internet: In the older days, joe average didn't have that much access to japanese games or knowledge about them, as the internet has expanded the user base the demand for these low print games has increased driving the price up.

3. Japanophile collectors(otaku/weaboo/whatever/completists): people whose interest in shmups and japanese games in general is more aligned to aesthetics then game play, have also increased rarity and bought up many of these games.


and yeah buy Deathsmiles like yesterday.

[Ghegs]

That's not really a good representation of how expensive the hobby is, since Zanac X Zanac and Harmful Park are among PS1's most expensive shmups. You can easily find good shmups (Thunder Force V, R-Types, R-Type Delta, Gradius Gaiden, etc) for $20-30. Some of these have been re-released several times.

Simple supply and demand dictates which games get stupidly expensive and which don't.

[evil_ash_xero]

That's not really a good representation of how expensive the hobby is, since Zanac X Zanac and Harmful Park are among PS1's most expensive shmups. You can easily find good shmups (Thunder Force V, R-Types, R-Type Delta, Gradius Gaiden, etc) for $20-30. Some of these have been re-released several times.

Simple supply and demand dictates which games get stupidly expensive and which don't.

Yeah, but I already got all of those. lol

I'm just reeling from Harmful Park's price. Jeezus...we're talking like RS levels here.

I mean, how rare is this game?

Well, thank Buddah for emulation.

[kengou]

I feel like most new shmup console releases go straight for the bargain bin because of how niche the genre is, or else they end up on downloadable systems like XBLA or Wiiware. The only thing that's expensive is buying PCBs or buying old shmups that are rare now.

[Ganelon]

Those 2 combined (complete Harmful Park and sealed Zanac X Zanac) cost me about $120 a few years back. I could have bought another $60 sealed Zanac X Zanac if I wanted to be a douche.

But yeah, if you don't want to bother waiting for a deal and just want to buy something on the spot, you're going to pay a hefty premium. The sad thing is that most of the folks aren't even good at these games and just buy them for the sake of collecting them (like those laughable sealed game collectors).

[mr_m0nks]

As a hobby I wouldn't say Shmupping was more expensive than any other. If you wanted too you could be a shmup fanatic on very little money. Same as being into photography or birdwatching or a myriad of other pass times. We spend what we want on our hobbies.

[henry dark]

It is possible to STG on a budget, but if you want a crack at the genre defining games i.e the ones that are talked about here most often, you'll have to pay.

Wonder if other niche genres are built around such high priced games? Are there 20,000 yen Saturn racing games?

[evil_ash_xero]

Those 2 combined (complete Harmful Park and sealed Zanac X Zanac) cost me about $120 a few years back. I could have bought another $60 sealed Zanac X Zanac if I wanted to be a douche.

But yeah, if you don't want to bother waiting for a deal and just want to buy something on the spot, you're going to pay a hefty premium. The sad thing is that most of the folks aren't even good at these games and just buy them for the sake of collecting them (like those laughable sealed game collectors).

Where did you get them? Ebay?

[mjclark]

Any hobby that involves collecting also involves sought after and highly priced collectable items, but just for playing I've learnt a lot about emulation. modchips,disc images and torrents along the way

[Cthulhu]

Shmups tend to be among the most expensive of games for most systems. As mentioned previously, this is due to the dedicated fans (blame people like us ) and smaller print runs.

The most expensive games overall tend to be the really, really rare ones - usually not good ones or even complete games. I believe the most expensive three Saturn "games" out there are the real estate demo discs (like Eyeful Home) and the mail-in only promos, which usually aren't really complete games either. RPGs tend to be higher than average but nowhere near the price of shmups. Occasionally there are expensive adventure games, often if someone famous worked on it (either writers or character designers).

[ncp]

It is possible to STG on a budget, but if you want a crack at the genre defining games i.e the ones that are talked about here most often, you'll have to pay.

You can play most (read: almost all) "genre defining" games on mame. "Most talked about" is another story.

[Rob]

Notice how none of those copies of ZXZ or Harmful Park actually sold or have bids.

[GaijinPunch]

You haven't even touched on PCBs. There's only a few console games w/ truly ridiculous prices... I can't think of any that's a must have.

[Ganelon]

Where did you get them? Ebay?

Yeah. I searched all the time back then and waited like 3 years to find an affordable Zanac. Just for reference, I waited like 5 years to find an decently priced copy of Langrisser Tribute even though I knew it would be my favorite game ever (and it is).

[evil_ash_xero]

Notice how none of those copies of ZXZ or Harmful Park actually sold or have bids.

Well, you'd think they'd reduce the price if they can't sell it at the prices they are offering it for.

One can hope.

[kid aphex]

i think the authors question was a bit rhetorical...obviously its supply and demand.
i want to make a post like this ONCE A DAY in these forums just out of spite for pricehikers and collectors.

[Jockel]

You haven't even touched on PCBs. There's only a few console games w/ truly ridiculous prices... I can't think of any that's a must have.

[evil_ash_xero]

Where did you get them? Ebay?

Yeah. I searched all the time back then and waited like 3 years to find an affordable Zanac. Just for reference, I waited like 5 years to find an decently priced copy of Langrisser Tribute even though I knew it would be my favorite game ever (and it is).

Oh wow, I just don't have that kind of patience. Luckily(?) i'm broke right now, so I can't get them anyway. Maybe there will be a better deal down the line. I just noticed that ZXZ is around the 200 mark. So both of those games would cost me around 400 dollars. Insane.

[Mero]

Just be very selective with your purchases, the most i've ever paid for STG was £60 for a used copy of PS2 Mushihimesama a few months back, which was the cheapest i could find. I don't think i'll ever go much higher than that, which is why i know i'll never own PS2 Ibara, for example, as it costs £100 or more. I wont lose any sleep over that fact

I would'nt shell out $250US or whatever for a game unless i'd just won the lottery

[DAY]

It is quite strange though if you think about it. When there is such a huge demand for shmups, why doesn't a publisher print more copies with which it can increase its profiets substantially.

It seems like 'we' only like the games when it is proven to be good and when the game is off the normal comercial market and then the 2nd hand trade begins. And this ends up in high prices like those of HP and ZXZ.

[SamIAm]

It is quite strange though if you think about it. When there is such a huge demand for shmups, why doesn't a publisher print more copies with which it can increase its profiets substantially.

I, too, wonder if there is any reason why developers and their publishers haven't done this with CD-ROM based games other than "it's kind of a pain in the ass". You know that if they printed up another 10,000 copies of Radiant Silvergun and sold them at an affordable $30 apiece, they'd all vanish in the time it takes you to burp. That's $300,000 worth of business for everyone involved, too.

[kemical]

non stg related but I was doing my usual once and a while look for something and saw Splatterhouse for fm towns going for $230 usd currently.. which seems impressive, almost over:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SPLATTERHOUSE-fm-to ... 1|294%3A50

[Etrian]

It isn't expensive, you just need to know what you want & what you're going to enjoy. A lot of overpriced games aren't worth the money, like Harmful Park, which is fun but really, you'd be insane to pay over $100 for a cute 'em up. That's just silly.

PCBs aren't meant for consumer use, so you're basically buying at a price that an arcade operator would pay at.

[neorichieb1971]

If you increase the numbers of copies made its unlikely to appeal to many of the collectors. In time everything becomes collectible, but at the same time, people usually buy those sealed copies of games during the bargain days when its considered a write off by the developer.

[J-Manic]

Our genre is truly the most expensive right now. And it has been for years.

I've been seriously considering selling my sealed Border Down just so I can grab a few more games to add to my Saturn library. Times are fucking tough right now.

[Elixir]

It isn't expensive, you just need to know what you want & what you're going to enjoy. A lot of overpriced games aren't worth the money, like Harmful Park, which is fun but really, you'd be insane to pay over $100 for a cute 'em up. That's just silly.

Harmful Park is selling due to rarity and word of mouth, nothing more. It's basically suffering from Radiant Silvergun syndrome.

[Warp_Rattler]

Shmups have quite a few classic titles above the $100 USD mark (which I consider to be excessive with few exceptions), but it seems like quite a few other genres, barring maybe racing and sports, have at least a handful of high-priced titles which either deserve the accolades or just have stupidly low print runs. You've got titles like Dracula X or Psychic Killer Taroumaru, Mizugi Shigeru's Ghost Hunt (or whatever it is), Rakugaki Showtime, Dungeons and Dragons Collection, or Doushin the Giant 2 which span the genres from sidescrolling beat-em-up to arena brawler to... well, whatever the hell Doushin 2 is supposed to be.

RPGs also have a few notably high-priced offerings like Panzer Dragoon Saga; quite a few games in this genre occupy the slightly-less-ridiculous-but-still-expensive $60-80 range, like most of Working Designs' offerings.

There are even a few pricey fighters: the Saturn's Street Fighter Zero 3, for example. Actually, if we're including ALL game systems, then the fighting genre would be the one with the most expensive titles, hands down.

It may very well be that shmups has, as a genre, the most crazily priced games, but if you dig far enough into obscure releases you'll find plenty of other genres that have titles much more expensive, especially if you start venturing into the world of prototypes or not-for-sale titles like e.g. Nintendo World Championship.

EDIT: Apologies for vagueness on some of the examples; writing this post on a not-typing-friendly Nokia N810 and can't be bothered to look up all the names of the rare and obscure titles I knew by heart in a time when I thought collecting uncommon titles to fill display space was a judicious use of disposable income. Rest assured, they're out there.

[Elixir]

There are even a few pricey fighters: the Saturn's Street Fighter Zero 3, for example. Actually, if we're including ALL game systems, then the fighting genre would be the one with the most expensive titles, hands down.

No it doesn't. People don't willingly buy fighting game PCBs because there's no competition. It doesn't even come close.

[Davey]

It is quite strange though if you think about it. When there is such a huge demand for shmups, why doesn't a publisher print more copies with which it can increase its profiets substantially.

It seems like 'we' only like the games when it is proven to be good and when the game is off the normal comercial market and then the 2nd hand trade begins. And this ends up in high prices like those of HP and ZXZ.

I think you answered your own question. These games don't go up in price until after they're out of print. Except for special editions, I'm pretty sure they always print enough to meet demand when they're still new.

There really isn't a huge demand for shmups. Second-hand prices are deceiving. Demand is low, but supply is even lower, so prices are high.