So What's the Reason the 360 is NOT the new Shmup Console?

[Daika110]

The Japanese 360 is getting a few shmup ports but so far NONE of them have found there way onto Live Arcade or to the US Region. What we're left with in the US is a mere handful of worthy shumps - Raiden Fighters Aces, R Type Dimensions, and Ikaruga, the upcoming Raiden 4, and that's just about it.

In comparison the Wii virtual console has a multitude of great older shooters ready for download IN THE U.S. So for me the 360 is basically a bust as a shooter console. The best shooter on the system is Ikaruga which I already own on the DC and GC.

Why won't MS bring over some of the Japanese ports onto disc or live arcade?

[dcharlie]

Why won't MS bring over some of the Japanese ports onto disc or live arcade?

because it's not their decission to make? It's up to publishers to see if the games are worth publishing financially.

they could chose to pick them up and publish them of course, but :/

[P_HAT]

All VC games can be played via emulators for 1) Free 2) Better controls 3) Better emulation 4) Better visuals 5) Free XD

[DJ Incompetent]

The Japanese 360 is getting a few shmup ports but so far NONE of them have found there way onto Live Arcade or to the US Region. What we're left with in the US is a mere handful of worthy shumps - Raiden Fighters Aces, R Type Dimensions, and Ikaruga, the upcoming Raiden 4, and that's just about it.

In comparison the Wii virtual console has a multitude of great older shooters ready for download IN THE U.S. So for me the 360 is basically a bust as a shooter console. The best shooter on the system is Ikaruga which I already own on the DC and GC.

Why won't MS bring over some of the Japanese ports onto disc or live arcade?

-Cave stuff doesn't leave Japan. It's just a fact. That's how it goes. There's many reasons, but other people could explain the story better than I could. Also, remember the part where the west hates hard games.
-Microsoft no longer approves straight Arcade ports on their Arcade service. Basically that forced everybody to make disc versions and few were willing to remake or drastically update the old game.
-Apparently it's like pulling teeth to get STGs on a PS3.
-STG market outside Japan is tiny. Last I looked, XBLA titles had a small chance at profit, and disc games pretty much break even or lose money. That's why nobody would dare take a legit shot at new (cave) IP STGs when the better financial bet is to stick with IPs westerners have a chance of remembering as they were popular at one time like Raiden, Gradius, and Geo Wars.
-Wii's 8-16 games don't have very good scoring systems
-Wii's Milestone STGs aren't that great.
-Wii does have better d-pads, but sticks are usually considered better in high level play and dedicated 360 STG players already bought a stick.
-Most of Wii's library is out on past consoles or just stolen in emulation.
-360 has many arena STGs which don't get enough mention. Some are quite good. Omega Five is a competent hybrid. Geometry Wars 2 does several things better than traditional STGs, but does not replace them.
-Leaderboards
-Online Replays
-Leaderboards
-Leaderboards
-Leaderboards

And that's why 360's small library is better than Wii's large one.

[brokenhalo]

import a j-360. problem solved.

[Zaarock]

It's pretty weird that microsoft is advertising "old arcade shooters" ports on the xbox dashboard right now.

[Daika110]

Correct me if I'm wrong but even Japanese disc based shooter releases on the japan 360 are small in number. I think I've read about maybe four or five decent shmups being released for the JAP 360. If true that's pretty sparse in my opinion. Other than Cave I believe some of the other ports have been pretty poor based on reviews I've read.

As to importing a Japanese 360 - I don't see that its worth it as of yet. I'll stick with my Saturn and its awesome shmup library for the time being.

Can someone please post a list of the essential 360 shmups released so far?

[howmuchkeefe]

Developers will pass up any number of opportunities to sell their product to end users at $40-60 a pop in the hopes that some day, some publisher will offer them hundreds of thousands of dollars to do this for them.

If you're the most attractive and popular developer in high school, then this strategy makes sense. You can turn down the scrubs' date requests, secure in the knowledge that Ricky Trust Fund or Johnny the Team Captain will hit you up before the dance on Friday.

If you're the talented, artistic, but nonetheless too frumpy and quirky to be invited to the best parties sort of developer, then... it doesn't. Turn down those scrubs, and you might find yourself home alone with your pride come Friday night.

And as to that US hates hard video games thing... I'll bet > 95% of the Japanese market does, too.

[bucklemyshoe]

-Cave stuff doesn't leave Japan. It's just a fact.

I thought so too...

http://www.siliconera.com/2008/09/17/th ... ess-debut/

[Elixir]

Oh look, a Wii fanboy.

Close thread.

[Daika110]

Wow what an enlightening assessment of this thread for an apparent 360 fanboy. I'm far from a Wii fanboy as I primarily purchased it for my kids. I will admit to being a Sega Saturn fanboy as that system absolutely has the best shmup library ever assembled for a gaming console.

Keep thread and your mind open. Apparently disagreeing with a thread results in calls for "close thread." Ridiculous.

[Rob]

What we're left with in the US is a mere handful of worthy shumps - Raiden Fighters Aces,

There's half of the worthwhile 360 shooters right there (Jet). I think we'll see some Cave shooters in the US eventually. That's the only thing missing, but it's still "early" considering the epic length of time it takes to localize one.

[ROBOTRON]

Console junkies like me have no problem, we import or kept/collected the older systems that had an abundant supply of shmups.

[Daika110]

Yeah I've done the same. I've got shooters for the Genesis, Saturn, DC, PS2, GC, even the Atari Lynx, and it seems the list goes on from there.

[antron]

I noticed the word "new" in your thread title.

If you don't want to play Raiden IV, Deathsmiles, or Futari what new shmups do you plan on buying?

[Dragon1952]

Because 360's don't stay working for that long! Mine is DOA! All my PS1's and PS2's and everything else (Nintendo and Sega) older are still working!
So my shooting games are playable always!
It is hard to invest so much money on these outstanding software releases when the hardware is unreliable!

[Damocles]

What we're left with in the US is a mere handful of worthy shumps

What serious fan of the genre doesn't import? I'm assuming you do since you mention your Saturn library quite a bit.

Localization is nice, but expecting all the good shit to come over here is damn optimistic, no matter the console.

[Elixir]

Wow what an enlightening assessment of this thread for an apparent 360 fanboy.

How am I a 360 fanboy? This will be good. Let's hear it.

[Daika110]

PM me if you want to continue an argument or feel you must have the last word on the subject. Frankly I'm bored with the "fanboy" discussion. BTW - I will be getting Raiden IV. I've imported lots of shooters on consoles I purchased in the U.S. I'm not ready to spend $400 for another 360 just to play 1 or 2 good JAP only shooters. If that library rises to something like 10 or more then maybe I'll bite at a JAP 360.

[BulletMagnet]

PM me

Finally, SOMEone did it without a mod having to demand it!

Marking on calendar now.

[angrycoder]

Why won't MS bring over some of the Japanese ports onto disc or live arcade?

Why would they? There's no money to made there.

Everyone who is really into shmups already went out and bought a jap 360 to play these games.

The rest of the average 360 users are just going to be like 'lol old!' or 'I would buy it if it was a 10 dollar live arcade game'.

[Dale]

Why won't MS bring over some of the Japanese ports onto disc or live arcade?

Why would they? There's no money to made there.

Everyone who is really into shmups already went out and bought a jap 360 to play these games.

The rest of the average 360 users are just going to be like 'lol old!' or 'I would buy it if it was a 10 dollar live arcade game'.

Of course if they just didn't region lock any the shmups in question I would have already gave an assload of money to them. But none of these Japanese developers want my filthy American money I guess.

But I ordered a Mod chip so fuck the Hardware developer and the Publisher.

[Elixir]

PM me if you want to continue an argument or feel you must have the last word on the subject. Frankly I'm bored with the "fanboy" discussion. BTW - I will be getting Raiden IV. I've imported lots of shooters on consoles I purchased in the U.S. I'm not ready to spend $400 for another 360 just to play 1 or 2 good JAP only shooters. If that library rises to something like 10 or more then maybe I'll bite at a JAP 360.

I wasn't arguing. Your thread is titled, "Why is the 360 NOT the new shmup console" as if to say that the Wii or PS3 are, or might become. This is evidently not true, and not going to happen, as the shooting library for the 360 has already formed. You keep going on about how the Wii would be adequate for shooting games and how your fantastic "pay per rom" Virtual Console could possibly harness XBLA titles.

But this isn't going to work. Ikaruga was in development for the XBLA for over two years, so do you really think it will be shoved on the Wii? In particular, Ikaruga for Gamecube can be played with the Wii's backwards compatibility. Let's move on.

You said the 360 is a bust as a shooter console for you because it only has "one game" that you're interested in. If shooting games come to the US, they have to fit into two of the following four criteria:

1. Is released as a compilation
2. Is released at budget price
3. Is released on the XBLA
4. Has been released previously

This is how Microsoft works. If it's a "retro" game, like evidently Ikaruga is considered, it has to go on the XBLA. If it's something like RFA, it needs to be bundled and can't be the same price as say, Gears of War 2. It's their way of quality control; nothing is overly anticipated on the Xbox 360 in Japan (apart from certain RPGs), so everything gets a fair share.

Basically, the shmup base on the 360 has already formed. People are gonna play follow the leader with it. Apart from Raiden, which has a small western fanbase and is recognized as "oh hey i credit fed through that when i was a kid!", the demand for American ports of games like Otomedius and Cave titles is practically non-existent.

Yes, you, compassionate shmup lover, aren't enough to warrant publishers to localize games for little profit. Nor is this entire forum. A localization is seen as "americans like things that go boom when you go bam bam!" or what I'd like to bring it down to, cashing in on nostalgia. People (or, rather, 99% of comments on gametrailers which sum up the majority of streamlined 360 users) will just go "this is an XBLA/PSN title, right? look at those graphics..."

You seem to be upset over not being able to play "1 or 2 shooters" (which is actually Shiki 3, Otomedius, Death Smiles, Shooting Love 200X, and DOJ BLEX) but you don't want to import a console to play them. My suggestion is that you reconsider this instead of complaining on the internet about what could be.

[Aru-san]

-Cave stuff doesn't leave Japan. It's just a fact.

DonPachi, Progear, and Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine would like to have a word with you.

[Daika110]

Elixir if you read my original post above you would see that no one was complaining about anything. I am simply challenging the conventional wisdom that says the 360 is the "new shmup console." If differing points of view aren't allowed or encouraged, or are met with "thread closed" replies than I guess this board isn't as good as it used to be. You list five shooters, one of which I have on another console (shiki 3) as proof otherwise which in my mind is not very compelling.

[angrycoder]

Elixir if you read my original post above you would see that no one was complaining about anything. I am simply challenging the conventional wisdom that says the 360 is the "new shmup console." If differing points of view aren't allowed or encouraged, or are met with "thread closed" replies than I guess this board isn't as good as it used to be. You list five shooters, one of which I have on another console (shiki 3) as proof otherwise which in my mind is not very compelling.

The fact of the matter is that cave is the major producer of new shmups. Two of their games have been released on the 360, and two more should be forth coming this year.

I can understand that if you are not into cave games why this wouldn't make you all tingly inside. But it would be severely near sighted on your part to not understand why this makes the 360 THE new shmups console to own. Cave is the 800 lb gorrilla, regardless of your preferences.

[versionfiv]

it makes no difference to me that these prolific cave shmups haven't been released in the states. what's the problem with buying imported? are you a chiseler? ;]

[Daika110]

That's pretty sad if the JAP 360 is the shmup console to own due to ONE publisher's support. I obviously support shmups on any console as positive and it is by far my favorite type of game. I have donpachi and dodonpachi on Saturn is the 360 version worthy in comparison? Seems I've read about that particular title being extremely buggy.

[thamasha69]

When you factor in the cost to own the actual arcade pcb's, importing a j360 is all the more enticing. I own a supergun and very well could buy DOJ black label and Deathsmiles pcb's, but I purchased a j360 and ports for hundred's less.

[angrycoder]

That's pretty sad if the JAP 360 is the shmup console to own due to ONE publisher's support. I obviously support shmups on any console as positive and it is by far my favorite type of game. I have donpachi and dodonpachi on Saturn is the 360 version worthy in comparison? Seems I've read about that particular title being extremely buggy.

Its not sad, its the one publisher who has 11 out of the 25 shmups in this year's list. Its the only publisher who has 3 games out or coming out on the 360 (ketsui, Death Smiles, Mushi 1.5) that you cannot play any other way unless you buy a PCB.

The Wii is great if you are into 8/16 bit games via download. But the fact is there are other ways to play those games - namely emulation or buying the original games. Shiki 3 is available for Wii/PC/360 - plenty of options there. Ultimate shooting collection - those games are available on DC and GCN.

So yes, for NEW shmups, the 360 is your only option. Who other than Cave has even released a new arcade shmup in the past 2 years? The only thing that springs to mind is Otomedius. Karuos and Shiki 3 have been out for several years.