New to shmups and shmups

Seelen · Post by **Seelen** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:56 pm

Hey,

I'm just recently getting into shmups, so I figured I'd register here and learn about them some more

I guess I've only recently begun to play them. I got a complete copy of Sonic Wings for Super Famicom in a lot, and it turned out to be really fun. I've played Ikaruga a bit and liked it, but it was kind of hard at first...although the high level of difficulty seems like it would prove to be very fun once I got the hang of it.

Being new to this, I was hoping you guys would have some more recommendations for me. I can't exactly build a cab or anything, and I know most PCBs are crazy expensive, so maybe you have some console recommendations for me? I have NES, SNES/Super Famicom, PSX/PS2, GCN, and DC...I think those are the only consoles I have that might have good ones. Also, I'd definitely buy a new console if it had lots of good ones.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that most good shmups are imports? I never really saw many over here (US). I'm definitely open to imports,shmups don't have too much text and I do read some japanese (only like 300 kanji though, so I often have trouble with text-heavy stuff)

So yeah...what up? and thanks in advance for any help.

I guess this could have gone in the introductions thread

Hopefully this thread could become a good resource for "introductory" or "essential" shmups...

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:00 pm

Welcome aboard!

I'm going to go ahead and guess that most good shmups are imports?

Pretty much. PS1, Saturn, PS2 and Dreamcast have a lot of great JP-only stuff between them, and the 360 is slowly getting a decent library too. Ikaruga and Gradius V (GCN / PS2 respectively) are about the highest-profile shooters to make it out of Japan in recent years. Going a bit further back, Einhander and R-Type Delta got NA PS1 releases, and are pretty well-regarded overall. I'll let more knowledgeable members take over beyond this.

There's also The Castle of Shikigami II, which got an excellent PS2 port released in NA.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:01 pm

welcome

most good shmups tend to not get released outside of japan, so i'd recommend a japanese (or import friendly) saturn, DC, or ps2 - lots of good games on each of those systems, so you should be able to find something to suit your tastes

check out this thread:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=25576

it has the results of the forum's annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time, that would be a good place to start

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:01 pm

Seem to have some er uh frequently asked questions there...

Hello n such

Seelen · Post by **Seelen** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:03 pm

DJ Incompetent wrote:Seem to have some er uh frequently asked questions there...

Hello n such

I know, I'm sorry...I actually posted this while I was reading the rules instead of after. >_<

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:12 pm

There's tons of great freeware shmups like Blue Wish Resurrection or Cho Ren Sha 68K for PC just couple mb's of download. You might want to chill and try out which kind of games are for you before you go start importing games. And there's always MAME too if using that and downloading ROMs doesn't go against your principles.

You shouldn't worry about making a thread like this either, people won't go biting your head off for this. These kinds of threads contribute a lot more to people than Ketsui Defense Force ever could anyways.

Seelen · Post by **Seelen** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:15 pm

Good advice. I don't plan on importing anything until I'm sure it's what I like. That's another sub-question I have...are there distinct "categories" for me to try out, or is it really case by case? Also, I could always emulate first and get some play experience before importing/buying (I love "collecting" games so I like to have the real copy)

BIL · Post by **BIL** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:17 pm

Definitely try out Psikyo's games, particularly the Strikers 1945 series, if you like Sonic Wings. Former Video System (SW) devs moved to Psikyo and the influence is very apparent (I forget who exactly, though). You'd probably love Strikers 1945 II.

The Sheep's World of Arcades site will give you an idea of three big names' works. Cave, Psikyo and Raizing are responsible for a lot of respected shooters between them.

szycag · Post by **szycag** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:59 am

Taito Legends 2 on PS2 for 10 bucks is a great deal, worth it for Darius Gaiden and G-Darius alone, which are easily the two best Darius games. Raystorm is on there as well, which should be pretty appealing for people starting out. Those are the top shmups on there... Gridseeker, Gekirindan, Metal Black... while not bonafide classics, they're still pretty solid efforts. You'll build a collection of decent shmups very quickly that way, and there are some other way underrated arcade classics on there like Dungeon Magic and Elevator Action Returns.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:03 am

cave
/end

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:19 am

NES, SNES/Super Famicom, PSX/PS2, GCN, and DC...

I'm going to go ahead and guess that most good shmups are imports?

There are plenty of great releases in the US for systems you own. Zanac, Bio Metal, Einhander, Gradius 5, Gunbird 2, Mars Matrix.

neist · Post by **neist** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:49 am

Seelen wrote:Good advice. I don't plan on importing anything until I'm sure it's what I like. That's another sub-question I have...are there distinct "categories" for me to try out, or is it really case by case? Also, I could always emulate first and get some play experience before importing/buying (I love "collecting" games so I like to have the real copy)

I'm not sure if I'd say there's distinct categories to try, but you may want to try out some of the different developers. You can get a good reference for the different developers in the aforementioned Top 25 Shmups list. There's a breakdown by developer if you scroll down a bit in each year's post.

They all have their own flavor. I myself am a Takumi sort of guy. I'd say if you like one developer's games there's a high likelihood that you'll enjoy the other games they've made. At the very least it'll be worth the checking out.

Rob wrote:
NES, SNES/Super Famicom, PSX/PS2, GCN, and DC...

I'm going to go ahead and guess that most good shmups are imports?
There are plenty of great releases in the US for systems you own. Zanac, Bio Metal, Einhander, Gradius 5, Gunbird 2, Mars Matrix.

Considering I own basically the same systems as you, I concur with Rob here. You may miss out on some of the more 'popular' games, but there's quite a few good games for other systems, Dreamcast especially.

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:02 am

Rob wrote:
NES, SNES/Super Famicom, PSX/PS2, GCN, and DC...

I'm going to go ahead and guess that most good shmups are imports?
There are plenty of great releases in the US for systems you own. Zanac, Bio Metal, Einhander, Gradius 5, Gunbird 2, Mars Matrix.

Also my standard recommendation for newbies is Blue Wish Resurrection - not too hard to 1CC, gameplay-wise very well done and FREE!

Oh and WELCOME! ^_^

Plastic · Post by **Plastic** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:30 am

I've said and will continue to say, that in my opinion, purchasing a Sega Saturn + Action Replay Cart, is the absolute, BEST possible way to get into shmups.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:44 am

The systems you have right now are great for shmups. But I noticed the absence of a Genesis/Megadrive, which is a wonderful source for shmups, both US released and Japan-only. All you need to play imports on a Genesis, is a Game Genie, which will run you about $10-$15. That's it. Once you have those two things, the likes of Gley Lancer, Thunder Force IV, Twin Hawk, Eliminate Down, Steel Empire, Gaiares and Whip Rush open up to you. Some are more expensive than others, but there are a lot of shmups for the Genesis/MegaDrive that are easily affordable.

Seelen · Post by **Seelen** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:53 am

jonny5 wrote:cave
/end

Don't make it worse, I want to play Deathsmiles so bad, but I don't have a 360

Lots of great ideas so far, it's helped a lot.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:45 am

I peed in Cave's butt

Just try out some games for systems you have, you might be surprisably enjoyed

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:16 am

If your PS2 can "handle" imports, I recommend ESPGALUDA. It's an eye opener.

indutrial · Post by **indutrial** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:11 am

LtC wrote:And there's always MAME too if using that and downloading ROMs doesn't go against your principles.

I second this recommendation, as I'm a recent shmup enthusiast who has the same exact array of systems listed in your original post. The cost and time involved with wrangling a lot of the arcade games that only saw good ports on less-common systems like the Saturn, the PC Engine CD, and the Neo-Geo makes MAME a godsend, and (at least for me) there's no tangible dimension of moral malaise, unless of course you have a soft heart for the world of E-Bay game sellers and their sometimes abysmal credibility and brutal prices. Plus, it allows you to enjoy plenty of games that likely will not return to consoles anytime soon (Konami gems like Xexex, Salamander 2, and Parodius; also tons of Psikyo and Raizing games, some early Cave stuff).

I feel like arcade packs reached an excellent peak on the PS2, and I second the recommendation of the Taito Legends 2 pack. Also consider picking up the Capcom Collection Vol. 2, which has Varth, Three Wonders, 1941, and a lot of other fun stuff. Lastly, think about grabbing up a Gradius III & IV PS2 disc (which is likely rotting in a Gamestop bin nearby for $5), Raiden 3 ($10 at Gamestop), and the Metal Slug anthology (not a shmup, but a similarly awesome compilation of 6 killer-hard titles that, for me, amount to the purest arcade bliss).

I'm too much of a cheapskate to even consider getting into those CAVE imports like Ibara and Dodonpachi's latest sequel. For far less than their average $150 price tag, I've been enjoying the combined fruits of my most recent acquisitions:

R-Type Delta (PS1) - mint disc used w/o booklet = $35 on Ebay, one of the best games I've ever played.

Axelay (SNES) - $3 at garage sale.

R-Type 3 (SNES) - $20 on amazon. Another amazing game.

UN Squadron (SNES) - $5 at used game store. Childhood favorite I was more than happy to give another go.

My next move is definitely going to be getting a copy of the highly-lauded Gradius Gaiden for the PS1, which I'll hopefully be able to play on my American system with the PS1-Gameshark trick. I'd sorely like to avoid needing to buy a PSP to play that title.

Jockel · Post by **Jockel** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 am

emphatic wrote:If your PS2 can "handle" imports, I recommend ESPGALUDA. It's an eye opener.

gennss · Post by **gennss** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:16 am

I recommend dreamcast, since its my system of choice.

If you don't have one and want to see what kind of games are out for it, try Ikaruga on xboxlive to get a feel for it, triggerheart exelica on xbox live, and Castle Shikigami 2 on Ps2 (usually runs about $10).

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:34 pm

Greetings, human.

My pick would be as follows:

Saturn
Dreamcast
PS1/PS2
XBox 360
Genesis
SNES
NES
TG16

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:10 pm

ROBOTRON wrote:Greetings, humanoid.

Fixed

Seelen · Post by **Seelen** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:45 pm

Oh man, you guys have been great, so many suggestions!

I tried calling the local game places about Gradius V, not a SINGLE one had a copy, although they only charge $10-15 when they have it in, so that's not terrible. I'm thinking about picking up that (may trade someone on another forum for it), maybe some metal slug (i used to be a big fan, my friend worked at a laser tag arcade and we took like $30 of the store's tokens to beat that damn game), and I'm thinking I could grab raiden III, since I see it so cheap all the time.

Also, I'm really into frantic stuff. That's not to say I want bullet hell, but I'd like to try out a REALLY fast-paced one, where you have high manueverability and speed, etc.

Also, I'm definitely not "against" emulation, so I'll look into MAME. I've heard of it a lot, but never really knew what it meant, I guess it's an arcade emulator? Like I was saying before, if I really like it, guaranteed I'll land a hard copy sooner or later, I'm just weird like that =P

Also, this is totally just out of curiosity, but how is the quality on the newer pcb stuff? I know half the reason to get PCB instead of console is for higher quality on older games, but do new ones support hd, do they have DVI/HDMI ports for 720/1080? That would be really cool!

P.S. Isn't it funny how the good american shmups are in the bargain bins, and the good japanese ones are like $60+ a pop?

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Seelen wrote:Also, I'm really into frantic stuff. That's not to say I want bullet hell, but I'd like to try out a REALLY fast-paced one, where you have high manueverability and speed, etc.

Have you tried Dangun Feveron?

It's made out of awesome and discomen.

pseudo · Post by **pseudo** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:42 pm

im also just starting to get really into this stuff, i've already had some priceless experiences... like 1ccing MUSHA (is that game possible to beat without a 1cc?? i dont see how lol) Gradius 1, and Touhou 8 (on easy lol)

and how epic is the end of einhander... amazing game that was

some of this stuff really frustrates me to no end though, like i cant make it through the second stage of raiden DX without dying (so i always just restart the game) i just dont get that game i guess

also cant get past the 4th level of ikaruga on easy with 5 stock ships (using the horrible dreamcast controller though, ordering an agetec stick ASAP)

the most annoying thing about some of these games is that you can get all the way to the end and then be completely RAPED and have to start over (make it to the end of thunderforce IV on easy every time without dying once and then the 8th level final boss sand 9th level final boss destroy me a billion times)
same goes for Android assult/bari arm (no deaths until the last level, cant beat it)

why do some of these games insist on such a ridiculous jump in difficulty

:(

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:46 pm

LtC wrote:
Seelen wrote:Also, I'm really into frantic stuff. That's not to say I want bullet hell, but I'd like to try out a REALLY fast-paced one, where you have high manueverability and speed, etc.
Have you tried Dangun Feveron?

It's made out of awesome and discomen.

Yeah Dangun is probably exactly what you're looking for. Also check out its freeware clone, Parsec47. Raiden Fighters Jet has fast all-over-the-place action, too. It'll be coming out on the Raiden Fighters Aces compilation here in the US soon as a budget title.

Psikyo games have fast bullets, but not the fastest ships. I know it was already mentioned above, but Strikers 1945 II is a good game for beginners (and a good game in general). Gunbird 2 has some really fast bullets, but it's pretty brutal.

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:54 pm

Want fast? Play either Slap Fight or Halley's Comet and max out the speed ups.

Seelen · Post by **Seelen** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:00 pm

cool, even more suggestions

I tried to pick up taito legends 2 at gamestop today, but their copy was disc only, and the only one for 100 miles :/ I may try a small gamestore or two soon. They had taito legends 1, but it didn't seem like there were any shmups on it really.

I did grab Raiden III though, I'm about to pop it in now. I'll let you know how I like it =P

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:31 pm

Seelen wrote:I'm thinking I could grab raiden III, since I see it so cheap all the time.

Also, I'm really into frantic stuff.

Couldn't hurt, but it's mediocre and the ship is slow. Psikyo is definitely what you're looking for. Also, Raiden Fighters Jet (in a compilation for $20 soon - as davey said), totally different than regular Raiden, and Recca.