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 Post subject: RQ: raiden fighters 2 TLB
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:19 am 


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Ok, so what exactly triggers the true last boss?

I got to stage 7 this morning, and died. I continued, beat the turret and fought the big stealth-style ship.

Then tonight I tried again. This time I one-lifed it past the big stage 7 turret... and the game ended.

What did I do wrong? How can I do better than one-lifing it?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:54 pm 


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Anyone? I've been through every scrap I can find, even the Raiden Fighters Emporium, and I don't see any mention of how to unlock the TLB.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: raiden fighters 2 TLB
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:34 pm 


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8 1/2 wrote:
...the big stealth-style ship.


That is the TLB. :p
And you usually get it in a single-credit run.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:36 pm 


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Yeah, continuing at all disables it.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:12 am 


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But I'm seeing the exact opposite happen.

I got to stage 7, continued, and fought the TLB. On the the next game I got past the big turret without ever dying once in the game, and I didn't get to fight the TLB!

I'll give it another go, but something is wacky.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:11 am 


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Ok damn it, I just did it again. I completed the whole game through Stage 7 and beat the big turret boss without dying. Still, the TLB did NOT show up.

Is it a score threshhold perhaps? I was under 15 million at the end, and I think the time that I continued and saw him I entered stage 7 at over 15 mil. Very frustrating.

I feel like if I can one-life the damn game I should get to fight the real final boss!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:06 am 


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8 1/2 wrote:
Is it a score threshhold perhaps? I was under 15 million at the end, and I think the time that I continued and saw him I entered stage 7 at over 15 mil. Very frustrating.


It most likely is a scoring threshhold then, as I'm usually at around 80mil when I get to the large round turret boss, meaning I trigger it virtually every time.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:01 pm 


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80 mil? Damn. I just can't be bothered to care about scoring in the Raiden Fighters series. I mean, what's the point? If there's no extra lives to be gained, then I just don't care. I guess I need to practice a bit more though, at least enough to see that TLB.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:54 pm 


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just learn the micluses on the early stages and try to trigger the big medals.. i'm not a good player but i was getting about 37 million even tho i never got past the last boss before i was forced to sell. you don't have to try too hard , i just took it easy and triggered the high value medals on the 3rd stage rather than go to too much bother and have to work really hard to get them going. god knows what the actual score threshold is but seeing as yor 1ccing it already i imagine you'll make it with ease
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:04 pm 


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8 1/2 wrote:
I mean, what's the point? If there's no extra lives to be gained, then I just don't care.

You're doing it wrong.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:34 pm 


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Twiddle wrote:
8 1/2 wrote:
I mean, what's the point? If there's no extra lives to be gained, then I just don't care.

You're doing it wrong.


I guess I'm just a pure survival player. In pretty much any shmup as soon as I get to that second extend I stop caring about my score. I can chain the first two stages of DDPDOJ perfectly, but after that I never bothered to practice.

With this now, there's a problem in front of me to be overcome: Score well enough to fight the real last boss. That's something tangible, and something I'll work to get. Attaching any work to some arbitrary digit just doesn't do it for me. You gotta give me an extra life or a boss fight if I'm going to really put my heart and soul into scoring.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:31 am 


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Try playing for score, you might like it.

The RF series is more of a "play to score" kind of thing since they aren't that hard. Unless you're playing the 2 loop versions of 2 and Jet.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:07 am 


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Are you guys just talking about Red Eye or am I missing something here?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:53 pm 


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Twiddle wrote:
Try playing for score, you might like it.

The RF series is more of a "play to score" kind of thing since they aren't that hard. Unless you're playing the 2 loop versions of 2 and Jet.


No, I really wouldn't. I absolutely hate "scratch" shmups, and I just can't be bothered to memorize every miclus and fairy and bonus point location. I feel like I'm playing Milon's Secret Castle or Tower of Druaga. If it was a logical score system not built around secrets and scratching then I might give it a go.

The other problem with this series is that it's what I call a "power-up dodger." I have this complex where I have to collect every power-up that's on screen, but with most ships I only like one mode of fire. I like the Griffin for the most part, but I can't stand its "M" power for instance. So I spend half the damn game dodging power-ups I don't want. The only way to just play and not worry is to play a slave or the fairy, but then I feel like I'm cheating.

That said, I am going to move on to the 2 loop version. I really dig the gameplay, just not the convoluted score system.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:57 pm 


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Feeling like a particular ship/weapon setup/autofire is cheating is the biggest roadblock to one's shooting game skill, as you worry more about your self-imposed "rules" more than playing well. The sooner you get rid of that, the better.

Also, like any other decent designed shmup with a weapon switching system that depends on color shifting powerups, they change color as they turn. You'll get the hang of it once you get this in mind, even if you're faced with 3 powerups on the screen almost taped to each other.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:26 am 


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Twiddle wrote:
Feeling like a particular ship/weapon setup/autofire is cheating is the biggest roadblock to one's shooting game skill, as you worry more about your self-imposed "rules" more than playing well. The sooner you get rid of that, the better.

Also, like any other decent designed shmup with a weapon switching system that depends on color shifting powerups, they change color as they turn. You'll get the hang of it once you get this in mind, even if you're faced with 3 powerups on the screen almost taped to each other.


You don't consider the slaves and the fairy cheating? They seem ridiculously overpowered, especially the fairy.

And this good sir, "decent designed shmup with a weapon switching system that depends on color shifting powerups" is an oxymoron. I think any game that employs such a system is already a chore in my eyes. Yeah you get used to it, and learn to time it, but it's still a pain and I'd much rather just focus on the game and not on what shot type I'm about to collect.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:38 am 


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8 1/2 wrote:
You don't consider the slaves and the fairy cheating? They seem ridiculously overpowered, especially the fairy.

You can destroy bosses in as little as 15 seconds with the bigger and slower ships and skip most of the patterns, but the tradeoff is that scoring is harder to pull off, as well as the levels.

You still have to learn boss patterns as Fairy/Slave since their firepower isn't nearly as good as a well-placed charge attack of the stronger weapons of the normal ships if you're not point-blanking (which is always dangerous until you've got the patterns down.)
Fairy also has a bigger hitbox than half of the normal ships, so scoring with it is hardly a walk in the park. Grazing (worth 25% of your score) with the smaller ships is also much harder, since the graze area in comparison to the "damage" hitbox is half the size in ratio. Sure, overall the smaller ships are more useful (and make the stages too easy in JS Slave's case due to the ridiculous bomb), but they're hardly "cheat mode" as it is.

You can only argue cheat mode if you're playing RF1, which is already pretty easy. :) RFJ, sadly, is designed for the really fast ships, which also include the Slaves.

Quote:
And this good sir, "decent designed shmup with a weapon switching system that depends on color shifting powerups" is an oxymoron. I think any game that employs such a system is already a chore in my eyes. Yeah you get used to it, and learn to time it, but it's still a pain and I'd much rather just focus on the game and not on what shot type I'm about to collect.

That IS part of the game. :wink: You don't get good at these things trying to disregard them.
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: raiden fighters 2 TLB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:18 am 



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8 1/2 wrote:
Ok, so what exactly triggers the true last boss?

To trigger it, get a target destroy rate of 100% in both the third and sixth stages. This rate will appear after you defeat the boss in each of those stages. I hope you can verify this.

I found this information here: http://www.ssp.x0.com/free1.html#check
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:19 pm 


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Nice find BER.

And honestly 8 1/2, the Fighters series is a scoring game, and not at all a survival game. Give it a go - it's a lot more fun!
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 Post subject: Re: RQ: raiden fighters 2 TLB
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:11 pm 


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BER wrote:
8 1/2 wrote:
Ok, so what exactly triggers the true last boss?

To trigger it, get a target destroy rate of 100% in both the third and sixth stages. This rate will appear after you defeat the boss in each of those stages. I hope you can verify this.

I found this information here: http://www.ssp.x0.com/free1.html#check


Awesome. Thanks BER.

And to everyone, I get that it's more about score, but that doesn't mean I like the score system(s). Jet is especially convoluted. These games seem scattered and unfocused in what they want the player to do. What can I say? I like dodging bullets, and figuring out patterns, not memorzing which tiny npc tank has to survive so I can make a miclus appear and spit out medals that do nothing but contribute to some arbitrary number.

Beyond that annoyance though, to get me to care about scoring there has to be some threat. I had the same problem getting into scoring in Espgaluda. It's hard to muster the desire to sit down and practice scoring when I've already cleared the game on a life. Too many other (more challenging) shmups are out there waiting to be played. And I know someone's going to say that the challenge comes FROM scoring, but not for me. A game has to be have both components if I'm going to put in mass hours on it.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:42 pm 


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easier survival but difficult scoring has been a staple of shmups circa 1998 and beyond, due to the pressing need to attract new players, and ignoring either isn't a good way to appreciate them. scoring systems that involve the player exposing themselves to vulnerability or whatever is an import from the highly-technical puzzle game genre, and the ability to ignore it and have an easier game as a result attracts inexperienced players, and allows players of various skill levels to enjoy them (either directly, by scoring increasing rank, or indirectly by having scoring be difficult.) note that this does not always involve tacking on incentive (in the form of extra lives, for example) to do so.

in a rather extreme example, exelica is very simple to play should you not bother to score an extend at all, but becomes far more difficult as soon as you reach an extend marker.

the old style of survival only play has been done a billion and a half times in the two decades before it. feel free to focus on that library of you like, but please note that they haven't had any popularity due to them catering to a limited range of skill level.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:15 pm 


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Twiddle wrote:
the old style of survival only play has been done a billion and a half times in the two decades before it. feel free to focus on that library of you like, but please note that they haven't had any popularity due to them catering to a limited range of skill level.


Oh please. You love to make judgements on people's skill level don't you? How about enjoyment level? I'm not saying I never play a game for score, just that this series doesn't inspire me to want to. I've 1CCed a ton of games. Some I've played for score, and some I haven't. My run on DDPDOJ took me almost six months of daily play before I could understand chaining in all five stages well enough to get the clear, so I'm no stranger to really digging into the inner workings of a shmup, but I digress.

I'm sorry but your precious RF series is a confused mess of playstyles. If it had some focus maybe I could find a spot for it in my heart. As is, it's just a summer popcorn movie. Nothing special, nothing original, but fun enough to sit through once between bigger and better games.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:23 pm 


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if you thought that was a trollpost then you clearly have not read a twiddle trollpost

also, "limited range of skill level" does not imply "inferior" for example:

on a scale of
Code:
EASY |---------|---------| HARD

in regards to play experience where --- are the skill levels in which the game caters to

psyvariar due to its extremely variable length would qualify as
Code:
EASY | --------|------   | HARD


raiden dx, on the other hand, on the expert course, would be
Code:
EASY |         |  -------| HARD

which is a more limited range than psyvariar's

i apologize if you read my post incorrectly given my reputation but i sincerely meant no insult in that post

sorry i am trying to type this while laughing the whole time
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:31 pm 


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LOL. Alrighty. Enjoy your sad little world of imagined difficulty levels. Does every thread have to turn into a "who's dick is bigger?" contest?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:01 pm 


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that's a whole lot of posts, words, and rage to say "I don't like playing for score" which would have saved half a thread's worth of posts
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:07 pm 


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Twiddle wrote:
that's a whole lot of posts, words, and rage to say "I don't like playing for score" which would have saved half a thread's worth of posts


Rage? Hardly. And you could have pulled the plug yourself sir a LONG time ago. At least I didn't take the time to create a graph around my inferiority complex.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:32 am 


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8 1/2 wrote:
Twiddle wrote:
that's a whole lot of posts, words, and rage to say "I don't like playing for score" which would have saved half a thread's worth of posts


Rage? Hardly. And you could have pulled the plug yourself sir a LONG time ago. At least I didn't take the time to create a graph around my inferiority complex.

you might want to wipe the foam off your mouth there it's not healthy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:32 am 


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I love you Twiddle.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:59 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:37 am 


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We all play them for fun (at least I hope that's the shared reason for most of us!), as 8 1/2 said, so you play them how you want mate!

For me, thinking a 1CC is what a shmup is primarily about would be like thinking playing a single football (soccer) match is about making the 90 minutes over worrying about what the score is, which seems odd. But I'm worse at football than almost anything, so I doubt my analogy holds water!

Enjoy yourself 8 1/2, however you play!
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