A "which version is better?" question: Gunbird

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Thu May 12, 2005 4:32 am

Okay, I desperately don't want to start a(nother) console war with this question, but here goes: Which version of Gunbird do you guys consider superior in terms of control, graphics, and sound?

I'm not all that happy with the scaled-up version included in the PS2 Gunbird 1&2 pack (oyyy, the sound too....blech!), and after putting in some serious time with my old DC copy of GB 2 tonight, I've decided I just need to pony up and fork over the cash for one of the 32-bit versions of Gunbird. The different pads aren't a factor for me (I've got the PS2 Saturn pad, as well as a Hori RAP).

I'm leaning toward the PSX version partially so I can play it with the Hori stick, and also because I play my Tate'd games through a Hori Upscan converter, into a VGA monitor (I know, I know...I need to get a XRGB. Too rich for my blood at the moment). The component signal from the PS2 upscanned into the monitor looks a tad better than the S-Video signal from the Saturn (also going into converter). But if the Saturn rev is superior to the PSX rev, I'll be happy to take a bit of a graphical hit to play the "better" version.

So anywho, any help/thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu May 12, 2005 4:38 am

PS version (any region) doesn't have tate.

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Thu May 12, 2005 4:38 am

It's my understanding that the PS version of Gunbird is stuck in wobble mode, regardless of region.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu May 12, 2005 4:40 am

Yep, Japanese version is wobble mode only, so the others aren't any better. Truly awful.

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Thu May 12, 2005 4:51 am

No tate = No bueno.

Thanks for the quick replies, guys. The Saturn rev it is, then!

D · Post by D » Thu May 12, 2005 12:16 pm

why play your saturn with S-Video when there are RGB scart cables available?

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Thu May 12, 2005 2:09 pm

D wrote:why play your saturn with S-Video when there are RGB scart cables available?

For one very simple reason, my good man...because I don't have anything to plug those RGB scart cables into at the moment

.

I'm sure at some point soon I'll be able to go the full RGB route on most of my consoles, but at the moment I'm content with Component and S-Video (depending on the console). Hey, believe it or not, I've come a long way...a couple of years ago I was playing all of my games through a crappy vintage '93 TV that only had an RF input. Nasty!

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Thu May 12, 2005 2:36 pm

MadSteelDarkness wrote: Hey, believe it or not, I've come a long way...a couple of years ago I was playing all of my games through a crappy vintage '93 TV that only had an RF input. Nasty!

I still am using such a TV.....I did go out and buy an RF Modulator so I don't have to do deal with those nasty RF adapters, plus my Saturn didn't come with an RF unit. I need to buy a new TV.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Thu May 12, 2005 2:45 pm

I didn't like the fact in the DC version of Gunbird 2, that there was no option to strech the display to take up the whole screen, like in Raiden Project.
Those black borders on the sides suck.

OmegaFlareX · Post by **OmegaFlareX** » Thu May 12, 2005 8:58 pm

What? You actually like panorama mode? There's a reason you won't see it anywhere else - It completely fucks up the control, since you move twice as fast horizontally as you do vertically. You need to buy a dedicated tate TV/monitor and experience the joys of arcade perfection. I promise you, once you play in tate, you'll never play in shitty yoko modes ever again.

D wrote:why play your saturn with S-Video when there are RGB scart cables available?

Look at his location. There is no scart in the US. If we want RGB, we have to do it the hard way.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Thu May 12, 2005 11:26 pm

Saturn version Gunbird (JPN) only. nuff said.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:42 am

Doesn't the ps2 port have tate?

It's probably scaled or something though.

Not a huge fan of Gunbird myself. It lacks the depth of Psikyo's later games. Doesn't even have the coin shine scoring...

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:27 am

The 32-bit versions have loads of nice pictures.

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Fri May 13, 2005 1:31 pm

Neon wrote:Not a huge fan of Gunbird myself. It lacks the depth of Psikyo's later games. Doesn't even have the coin shine scoring...

Excactly! Pure distilled shooting goodness.

I own both original ports of Gunbird (japanese PSX and Saturn, not the PS2 compilation) and would say that the Saturn version is far superior in everything except the quality of the opening movie. As if that matters

The PSX rev would actually be fairly decent... if it included better Yoko modes or a Tate mode. As it stands, the wobble mode is not so great. Even if they had done a nice rebalanced squashed mode like they did for US Strikers 1945 (aka II) it would have been damn good. As it stands, the Saturn rev is the best version to own - and is still fairly cheap as far as Saturn shooters go.

sjewkestheloon · Post by **sjewkestheloon** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:22 pm

i have to say i'm more than satisfied with the ps2 gunbird collection, which i found for 10 quid. decent tate mode, controls feel accurate, etc. however i found mobile light force for the ps1 for 3 quid and it wasn't even worth it for collection purposes. the merciless ripping of the story sections, liack of tate, and bad overall presentation and packaging just makes it a hollow experience

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:13 pm

Excactly! Pure distilled shooting goodness.

Explain how the lack of an optional scoring mechanic makes the game better?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:18 pm

Not THIS debate again...

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:26 pm

Neon wrote:
Excactly! Pure distilled shooting goodness.
Explain how the lack of an optional scoring mechanic makes the game better?

Sure. You originally said:

It lacks the depth of Psikyo's later games. Doesn't even have the coin shine scoring...

I wasn't responding to just the coin shine scoring... the fact is that it doesn't have the melee attacks nor the tech-bonus and coin chaning found in later Psikyo games. And those are qualities that I love about Gunbird - as I don't find any of those things makes for a better game and in some ways take away from the pure shooting experience of:

1. move
2. shoot
3. don't get shot

Early Psikyo games focused on the basics - and it did that very well. They are some of the most modern "classic" shooters. Most games post early Psikyo went with additional gameplay mechanics to try and put a fresh spin on a tried-and-true genre. I'm not against evolution of games, but there is something to be said for a pure shooting game - heck, I'm not even sure I like the charge shot mechanic all that much but I'm willing to conceed that it works nicely enough (though, to my knowledge, only the first Psikyo game Sengoku Ace was that pure as to not include the charge shot... I love Sengoku Ace!).

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some chaining and some other gimicks in my shooters (heck, Radiant Silvergun is my favoraite game ever!) but I also love straight-up shooters and Psikyo's earlier efforts are pure shooting goodness. In my opinion, they outshine the more recent efforts (i.e. Sengoku Ace, Gunbird and Strikers I are all better games than Strikers II, Sengoku Blaede and Gunbird 2 - though all Psikyo shooters are well above average for me).

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Sat May 14, 2005 1:49 am

1. move
2. shoot
3. don't get shot

But say, Strikers 1, doesn't take away from this at all since the scoring is optional. It just gives you something to improve on in stage 1 while you're easily breezing past the first few stages in terms of survival. In Gunbird, you're just bored on the first stage since it's utterly easy and there's nothing else to focus on.

hikarutilmitt · Post by **hikarutilmitt** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:12 am

OmegaFlareX wrote:
D wrote:why play your saturn with S-Video when there are RGB scart cables available?
Look at his location. There is no scart in the US. If we want RGB, we have to do it the hard way.

Yeah, we have to buy a TV with component input. Poor us.

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Sat May 14, 2005 5:00 am

hikarutilmitt wrote:
OmegaFlareX wrote:
D wrote:why play your saturn with S-Video when there are RGB scart cables available?
Look at his location. There is no scart in the US. If we want RGB, we have to do it the hard way.
Yeah, we have to buy a TV with component input. Poor us.

I think they were both referring to the Saturn specifically, which AFAIK can only be played in RGB (Scart or JP), S-Video, or composite (and maybe also in RF, if you don't mind your eyes bleeding). If there is a way to get some component cables for the Saturn, I would love to find/make some. Any thoughts, Matt?

Component input TVs are absolutely the best thing to happen to US gaming, IMO (not to mention for watching DVDs as well). I suppose an RGB monitor would be the most preferrable route. But man, does component look sweet. I almost fell out of my seat after playing Harmful Park and Gradius Gaiden on the new TV I picked up a year and a half ago. Absolutely gorgeous!

Back on topic, the Saturn version of Gunbird is on it's way to me, and quite reasonably, I might add. Again, I appreciate everyone's input/info.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:38 am

Component tv's?..... Interesting, could you give any more info on it?

Also I see from this thread that the Gunbird compilations on PS2, is regarded here as something NOT to get, or NOT as good as the other versions?

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Sat May 14, 2005 1:58 pm

D wrote:why play your saturn with S-Video when there are RGB scart cables available?

Because some of us don't fancy dropping more money into a TV. I payed $250 for the TV I have now over 5 years ago. It has S-Video and RCA inputs and does fine for me. I can much more easily swallow $50 now and again for a new game rather than spend a ton of money on a new TV that won't be exactly what I want. I'm waiting until I have a bit more financial freedom so I can purchase either a large, TATE-able LCD monitor, or perhaps a projector that I can turn on it's side and connect my game systems to it so I can have TATE on my wall for shmups. Has anyone else tried this?

Post by **Ghegs** » Sat May 14, 2005 2:39 pm

llabnip wrote:(though, to my knowledge, only the first Psikyo game Sengoku Ace was that pure as to not include the charge shot... I love Sengoku Ace!).

Sengoku Ace does have charge shots, they just take a good while to charge which makes them mostly useless. Usually I just charge it up to take a first stab at the bosses (while there are no enemies on screen and the boss approaches) and resume standard firing right after.

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Sun May 15, 2005 1:44 am

Nei First wrote:Component tv's?..... Interesting, could you give any more info on it?

Also I see from this thread that the Gunbird compilations on PS2, is regarded here as something NOT to get, or NOT as good as the other versions?

In regards to the first question, it seems that most TVs coming out these days have component inputs, which is a slightly different, "consumer grade" RGB (I think). It has three video input cords, but instead of being labeled "red", green", and "blue", they are labeled Y("yellow"?), Pb, and Pr ("Purple blue" and "Purple red"? I dunno).

Anywho, according to this board's recently returned master of all things technical, Matt, component signals on a properly calibrated TV (and I'd be lying if I said I knew how to do that) are just as good as RGB. I can tell you that my PS2, X-box, and Gamecube look super sweet when hooked up by component cables to my sharp-as-a-razor 21" Phillips that I bought a year and a half ago for $180. Component cables are readily available for the PS2 and X-box, but you might need to do a bit of digging around for the GC cables. Play-asia sells them, as well as NCSX, IIRC.

As to the second question, the PS2 GB 1&2 pack isn't bad, per se. The graphics are done in that scaled "fake low res" that's been popular with 2D compilations recently, and as such, don't look as good as their true low res counterparts, IMO. The sound on both games is pretty bad, with too-loud shooting/explosion sound effects drowning out the muffled music. Also, there are in game load times on GB2 before boss battles, which just completely throws me out of my zen.

Both games do feature tate however, and GB2 has a training mode that has some nifty features. To be honest, I've only played this compilation a few times, and only for Gunbird. I've had the DC rev of GB2 for four years now, and it's way better than the PS2 version: Good sound, true low res graphics, and two extra characters. What the DC version doesn't have is a decent yoko mode, but for my purposes, that isn't a liability.

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Sun May 15, 2005 5:26 pm

MadSteelDarkness - Thanx for the info on the component tv's. I'm gonna look into it.
As for gunbird, yeah I also have gunbird 2 on DC which I quite like, looks real nice on a monitor too. So I too would only be getting this compilation for the first gunbird, though I'm having second thoughts now.

hikarutilmitt · Post by **hikarutilmitt** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:06 am

MadSteelDarkness wrote:
Nei First wrote:Component tv's?..... Interesting, could you give any more info on it?

Also I see from this thread that the Gunbird compilations on PS2, is regarded here as something NOT to get, or NOT as good as the other versions?
In regards to the first question, it seems that most TVs coming out these days have component inputs, which is a slightly different, "consumer grade" RGB (I think). It has three video input cords, but instead of being labeled "red", green", and "blue", they are labeled Y("yellow"?), Pb, and Pr ("Purple blue" and "Purple red"? I dunno).

Anywho, according to this board's recently returned master of all things technical, Matt, component signals on a properly calibrated TV (and I'd be lying if I said I knew how to do that) are just as good as RGB. I can tell you that my PS2, X-box, and Gamecube look super sweet when hooked up by component cables to my sharp-as-a-razor 21" Phillips that I bought a year and a half ago for $180. Component cables are readily available for the PS2 and X-box, but you might need to do a bit of digging around for the GC cables. Play-asia sells them, as well as NCSX, IIRC.

This is because component and RGB are actually one and the same. The only difference is the cableing itself. RGB has a special cabling connection that's been around since, well, the beginning of arcade monitors and such. Component only need 3 RCA cables (doesn't matter WHAT they're for, so these people trying to sell you component cables for more than the exact same standard a/v cables are just trying to make money) to deliver the signal from the device to the monitor/TV. What this means is that, really, the "US options" are really just as good as the "European options" for running monitors and such. You can run down to Wal-mart and pick up a fairly cheap and decent-sized Sanyo or Philips flat screen monitor (not flat panel) with component that, while not actually HD, is still pretty damned clear.

I'm personally very happy with my HDTV. Both my PS2 and DVD player are hooked up through component video and optical audio (mostly connected with Monster >_>) and I couldn't be much happier.

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:28 am

^Thanks for the clarification, man.

By the by, hikarutilmitt, how are things in my hometown? Any good shops or arcades still in existence? I went on a scouting trip a couple of years ago, and only found an overpriced ($50) copy of TF Gold Pack 1 at North Star Mall.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:29 am

Not true.

http://atarilabs.com/meat/2000/1201_videoprimer.shtml

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:41 am

Neon wrote:Not true.

http://atarilabs.com/meat/2000/1201_videoprimer.shtml

Hmmm. The plot thickens.

I still intend to go the full RGB route at some point. However, component signals work well enough for me at the moment.