Amazing games that are hard to pick up and play again: RSG

[Shelcoof]

So last night I decided to break out Radiant Silvergun to give it a go again. Last I remembered playing it was at least a year ago and before that about a year as well.

When I first played the game, it blew me away. Treasure had always made amazing games and the hype that RSG had was well deserved (in my opinion). RSG is one of those games that leave you with this feeling of satisfaction, a satisfaction that is so satisfying you don’t even want to play it for a 2nd time. I know, hard to believe but it’s that good that you’re left with a feeling of, I’ve had enough I’m so happy that I don’t need to play it again.

Despite being an amazing game with all the bells and whistles you can ask for, I just can’t seem to enjoy it again with the same experience. It’s like an awesome RPG that you just beat; you don’t really want to go back and play it again because well you solved all the mysteries and figured out how it all ended. There is no point to play again because there is nothing surprising left for you to discover. I get the same feeling with Guardian Heroes (another Treasure title) I have a hard time playing alone but the multiplayer is very good.

Ikaruga is a different story; I can pick that game up and play forever. I don’t know why but RSG feels like an adventure game, Ikaruga on the other hand rely heavily on goals. Goals such as chaining that keep you hooked on trying to beat your previous score over and over again. RSG is too long, even though it implements a chaining system, the game is far too long to dedicate to it and you just blast things as quick as you can to get to the next level.

So the question is, is there a game out there that you absolutely love but can’t seem to play again?

It’s rare for me to experience such games but RSG is one of the few games that I absolutely love but can’t seem to enjoy again. I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or not but Radiant Silvergun is one shooter I won’t be playing again very soon.

[kengou]

RPGs and RPG-like games are all like that for me. Chrono Trigger is my favorite RPG of all time and it just isn't something I can replay much. I loved Oblivion as well but I wouldn't want to play it again. I think you invest so much into the character you develop, as well as the story, that you don't really want to do it all again from scratch. Well, I don't. I'm not that much of an RPG player, though; I'm sure some people do replay RPGs a lot.

My favorite games, though, I can definitely replay because I enjoy the gameplay and I value replayability a lot. I play through the Half-Life games probably once a year if not more. I certainly play most shmups repeatedly (although it's difficult to replay RSG a whole lot, exactly as you described).

[Ozymandiaz1260]

That's how it is for me with pretty much any game that has a long and intricate storyline that you really have to get involved in... or the story line doesn't even have to be that engaging, even something like the GTA series does it for me. I'll do about one or two missions and then spend the next two hours just running amok throughout the city. No matter how good the story is, it just seems like too much work to really get back into it, especially since you already know everything that's going to happen. I guess my opinion doesn't really matter that much anyway, since those types of games seem like work to me even in the first run. That's why I like arcade style games where you just go strait into the game play. It's like the goal is never complete; the story is never finished because you can always improve on your score... with RPGs and FPS' and other games like that, the main goal is just to finish the story, and once it's over it's over, but you'll never get a perfect score with a lot of shooters, so there's always something new to strive for... there's always a reason to keep playing.

[Ex-Cyber]

Prince of Persia (the original). I finally beat it for the first time recently, and I doubt I'll get the urge to play through it again anytime soon. Maybe in 10 years or so...

[jpj]

what's your score on silvergun? if you aren't playing for score, this might be where you're missing out. and only 1 credit

to answer the question: i can only play each zelda game once a year. once you know how to solve all the puzzles, that's it really. even link's awakening, which i really enjoyed, became "i've done the good part, now there's all this filler shit, then a good part". first time through, you put up with everything because you don't know what's next. 2nd time, not so much

[Shelcoof]

RPGs and RPG-like games are all like that for me. Chrono Trigger is my favorite RPG of all time and it just isn't something I can replay much.

CT is my favorite RPG too and it was the first RPG I ever played. I'm not much of an RPG gamer but CT sort of ruined it for me. It was soo good that no other RPG could top it. Only other was Final Fantasy III (6) and that was awesome as well. CT is probably has the most replay value out of any RPG I can think of with multiple endings. Even with that still its tough to start from scratch again. New DS version is out and I have a hard time considering picking it up.

That's why I like arcade style games where you just go strait into the game play. It's like the goal is never complete; the story is never finished because you can always improve on your score... with RPGs and FPS' and other games like that, the main goal is just to finish the story, and once it's over it's over, but you'll never get a perfect score with a lot of shooters, so there's always something new to strive for... there's always a reason to keep playing.

Arcade games are great but at the same time some of them have no depth and you can easily find yourself bored within minutes. Arcade games are designed for quick play and that period maybe really short. With beat em ups and racing games, some of them are easy to play but then after a couple of minutes you find yourself bored because you realize your doing the same thing over and over again almost like a chore.

Shmups and Fighters on the other hand along with Rhythm type games can last a long period of time based on your own personal goals to reaching a score or competition against other players. Same goes for FPS, the best thing is the multilayer. Come to think about it I never play single player in any FPS only Multiplayer.

btw I never really played any GTA game seriously, I always run amok and I'm fine with that lol

what's your score on silvergun? if you aren't playing for score, this might be where you're missing out. and only 1 credit
much

I've never been really good at Shmups, my main focus when playing a Shmup is to survive as best as I can. That means die very little and try and beat it with as little credits as possible. However, RSG is soo long and hard that I've died many times but that doesn't take much away from the experience. The game was great from start to finish. Every boss was a delight to battle and the stage design and strategy changed all the time, making it extremely fun.

Playing RSG for a 2nd or 3rd time doesn't give me the same satisfaction as lets say surviving a barrage of bullets the 200th time from the 2nd boss of ESPGaluda or reaching the very last boss in Progears for the 50th time without losing a credit (btw I'm not that good to reach the last boss in Progears on one credit lol just an example).

I don't feel this way about any other Shmup, RSG is the only one that gets this kind of treatment from me.

[Ganelon]

I generally can't play any adventure games twice. The charm is lost when you know all the solutions. Plus, getting through overly lengthy games like Phoenix Wright seems almost a chore the first time through, not to mention on subsequent playthroughs.

And on that note, I very, very rarely replay RPGs nowadays unless it's on a different version. I've pre-ordered the DS port of Chrono Trigger and will definitely play through it again (although everything points to it being too much of the same). I esp. can't imagine ever playing through behemoth RPGs like Baldur's Gate II or Dragon Warrior VII ever again in the nearby future.

In fact, when I really think about it, any game that takes longer than 2 hours (i.e. one sitting) to beat is pretty much a once-and-go type situation for me nowadays.

[Skykid]

I don't really see RPG's as games that are meant to have any replay value at all - just too long winded. They capture your imagination the first time around, but the second is just a waste of time.

I could definitely go back to RSG if I'd mastered it before though. It's got an epic feel, but it's still great shmup action!

[jpj]

shelcoof, i would be the first to admit that silvergun takes a long time to get into and understand all the intricacies. i don't think i *really* knew what i was doing until about 50 hours practice.

i always say that for shooters, if you drew a graph of score against time, it would be like the start of a sine wave, ie very small incline at first for awhile, then a steady climb when you've learnt a fair bit and the more you play the better you score, and the more you score the more you want to play, before eventually plateau-ing when you hit a wall in terms of difficulty/execution.

i hope you stick with it, because once you learn how things click into place, and you start tearing the game up on a credit, you'll really enjoy it i think. if you're after any particular info, you can pm me, or ask in the strategy or high score thread

i understand what you mean though. it's certainly quite an awe inspiring game at times; but what technical/graphical genius dazzles you first time out will lose it's sheen with each playthrough. but when you've had some time with it, and you're flipping between seven weapons on the fly, and killing the last boss on 1 life, it's great fun

play arcade mode, route 2

and if you're playing it on a saturn, try and max out your weapon levels, and save them. then you can practice levels individually with maxed out weapons (even if they are the saturn mode versions, which only affects stages 5 and 6 )

i should really play this game again

[KindGrind]

Even after 50 hours of practice, I was utter garbage at RSG.

Xiga has to be the most terrible boss ever. The ride's possible until you reach him. I did say a couple of months ago in another thread that I fell asleep twice, on two different occasions, battling the SOB.

[jpj]

without going into too much detail, you need to raise your weapon levels so B and C are at least levels 10-15. but 25+ would be ideal. then use your X lock-on weapon (or B+C if you play on st-v), so much damage it's crazy.

until you know that, then yeah you're fucked

[Shelcoof]

shelcoof, i would be the first to admit that silvergun takes a long time to get into and understand all the intricacies. i don't think i *really* knew what i was doing until about 50 hours practice.

i always say that for shooters, if you drew a graph of score against time, it would be like the start of a sine wave, ie very small incline at first for awhile, then a steady climb when you've learnt a fair bit and the more you play the better you score, and the more you score the more you want to play, before eventually plateau-ing when you hit a wall in terms of difficulty/execution.

i hope you stick with it, because once you learn how things click into place, and you start tearing the game up on a credit, you'll really enjoy it i think. if you're after any particular info, you can pm me, or ask in the strategy or high score thread

i understand what you mean though. it's certainly quite an awe inspiring game at times; but what technical/graphical genius dazzles you first time out will lose it's sheen with each playthrough. but when you've had some time with it, and you're flipping between seven weapons on the fly, and killing the last boss on 1 life, it's great fun

play arcade mode, route 2

and if you're playing it on a saturn, try and max out your weapon levels, and save them. then you can practice levels individually with maxed out weapons (even if they are the saturn mode versions, which only affects stages 5 and 6 )

i should really play this game again

thanks for the info, yhaa I know what you mean, Silvergun is definitely one game that takes a lot of practice considering there are tons of bosses. Silvergun I believe is built more around constant changing strategy more than anything else. Not as much as maniac bullet hell if you ask me but constant strategies that are thrown at you one after the other that you have to adapt to each time.

I find two player in RSG is great fun, a lot more fun than single player if you ask me. Where as in lets say ESPGaluda I preffer to enjoy it alone.

I dunno I'm gonna still break out RSG once in a while but man those Cave games available are too hard to stay away from for too long :p

I have soo many Shmups over at least 30 in my collection (not including emulation), I try my best to play them all or I feel like crap just letting them sit there for a while so I move along pretty quick to give them all a good go.

Now all this talk about RSG, I realize that I haven't touched Ikaruga in a while either.. time to break out the Dreamcast

[Twiddle]

rsg? amazing? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[CMoon]

Just came back to SMT: Nocturne and basically had to start over since you can't get anywhere in the game without remembering all the strengths and weaknesses of all the 100+ demons in the game (ah, that's why we keep a notebook!) Also, how you want to build your MC and party, a sense of the best skills, etc. This one definitely plays off the obsessive/compulsive nature of most rpg players in that you just have to keep track of so many tiny things in the game...

Yeah, RSG is always hard to back into--enough so that I'd sell my copy (in great condition *wink* *hint* *cough* etc.) is someone is in need.

[jpj]

Now all this talk about RSG, I realize that I haven't touched Ikaruga in a while either.. time to break out the Dreamcast

sounds like a plan

[Elixir]

I loved Goldeneye but it aged terribly.

[kengou]

I loved Goldeneye but it aged terribly.

I disagree. What about it hasn't aged well? (graphics don't affect gameplay so that don't count)

[KindGrind]

Did play it again recently, it's true, it did age terribly. The fact that everything now is controlled with the 2 thumbs simultaneously. Using the R to bring up the crosshair and then the right thumb is a bad idea and works clumsily.

[captpain]

(graphics don't affect gameplay so that don't count)

Oh come on, quit spreading this trite falsehood. Graphics are inextricably linked to the experience of playing any game.

Define gameplay.

[Skykid]

(graphics don't affect gameplay so that don't count)

Oh come on, quit spreading this trite falsehood. Graphics are inextricably linked to the experience of playing any game.

Define gameplay.

Fierce!

(I think you'll find Kengou wrote that tho, not elixir. )

[captpain]

(graphics don't affect gameplay so that don't count)

Oh come on, quit spreading this trite falsehood. Graphics are inextricably linked to the experience of playing any game.

Define gameplay.

Fierce!

(I think you'll find Kengou wrote that tho, not elixir. )

Oh, whoops... the quoting here is awkward. I don't really like the nested quotes.

[FatCobra]

Did play it again recently, it's true, it did age terribly. The fact that everything now is controlled with the 2 thumbs simultaneously. Using the R to bring up the crosshair and then the right thumb is a bad idea and works clumsily.

I think you can change the control scheme to a Turok-style scheme, where the stick looks and the C-buttons move forward/back, strafe-left/right. It worked pretty well and the aim button was cool because you can lock on to an enemy if you were too lazy or in a hurry.

[themachinist]

I played goldeneye again for the nostalgia factor a few years ago and the graphics made me feel sick.

[Elixir]

I disagree. What about it hasn't aged well? (graphics don't affect gameplay so that don't count)

The controls, for one. Having to stop to aim like it's MGS is just horrible. It controls like shit in comparison to today's modern FPS games that use a 360 controller or mouse and keyboard. Technology has simply overruled games like Goldeneye, even if they were great back at their launch. Graphics do play a part in the gameplay experience as well.

If they don't, feel free to play Battle Arena Toshinden and tell me the graphics don't count.

[ArmoredCore]

i'd have to say okami, the game is like gorgeous and has the gameplay of zelda style action rpg, very good game, just couldnt get myself to replay it again, maybe its the massiveness of it, just like dragon quest 8 i loved it but couldnt do it again.

[Acid King]

The controls, for one. Having to stop to aim like it's MGS is just horrible. It controls like shit in comparison to today's modern FPS games that use a 360 controller or mouse and keyboard. Technology has simply overruled games like Goldeneye, even if they were great back at their launch. Graphics do play a part in the gameplay experience as well.

The thing with Goldeneye's controls is that you don't have to aim very precisely. With the default auto aim function, you only have to stop and aim if you're taking a long distance shot, in which case standing still doesn't make much of a difference. I used default controls, and would just use C up and down to vertically adjust my aim. Agreed on the graphics though.

[kengou]

(graphics don't affect gameplay so that don't count)

Oh come on, quit spreading this trite falsehood. Graphics are inextricably linked to the experience of playing any game.

Define gameplay.

gameplay: the mechanics and design of the game, levels, etc. "how the game plays." I'd rather play a game with deep mechanics and good design, but looks polygonal and jaggy, compared to a simplistic game with boring design that has detailed textures and advanced lighting. That's what I mean when I say graphics aren't related to gameplay.

Obviously if a very well designed game also has good graphics that's a nice bonus, but that's all, hardly makes a real difference. I think Goldeneye plays very well, I really don't care if it has N64 graphics and everybody looks like globs of big polygons.

A complaint about the controls not aging well, however, is perfectly valid. I like to play it on Project64 with a WASD+Mouse-aim plugin, so those don't affect me as much.

[captpain]

(graphics don't affect gameplay so that don't count)

Oh come on, quit spreading this trite falsehood. Graphics are inextricably linked to the experience of playing any game.

Define gameplay.

gameplay: the mechanics and design of the game, levels, etc. "how the game plays." I'd rather play a game with deep mechanics and good design, but looks polygonal and jaggy, compared to a simplistic game with boring design that has detailed textures and advanced lighting. That's what I mean when I say graphics aren't related to gameplay.

Obviously if a very well designed game also has good graphics that's a nice bonus, but that's all, hardly makes a real difference. I think Goldeneye plays very well, I really don't care if it has N64 graphics and everybody looks like globs of big polygons.

A complaint about the controls not aging well, however, is perfectly valid. I like to play it on Project64 with a WASD+Mouse-aim plugin, so those don't affect me as much.

Well, I know what you're saying, but "how the game plays" always includes graphics. They affect so much that it's almost nonsensical to just discard them. That being said, I play everything from Nethack to Crysis and love all of it. It's just a popular thing to say graphics don't matter, but it's not really true.

Anyway, Goldeneye I think stands alone as an FPS that is actually compelling and console-exclusive. I really didn't mind not having a mouse+keyboard, and probably still wouldn't (but hell I'll take that mouse plugin )
It's no Halo... it's actually a good console FPS and a good FPS by any standard. And one of the very first blockbuster popular ones for consoles, no less.

[Gungriffon Geona]

It was hard to pick up and play the first time, why do I want to try to play it again? It's only redeeming factors are the graphical trickery, the music, and the fact they managed getting a story into the gameplay without really hindering the gameplay. (even if it was a circular adam and eve bullshit excuse of a story.)
The rest of it is the usual treasure affair. Convoluting the fuck out of everything by adding a million gameplay mechanics that you don't really think about using, then punishing you for not using them.

It's really NICE that they want to innovate and try new ideas, but the problem is they get really carried away with it. moreover, that was how almost all their old games tended to go, by totally going insane with ideas, whether or not they fit and played well. I still to this day can't understand why Alien Soldier and Gunstar Heroes are heralded as classics, when they honest to god felt clunky and overladen with issues. (Gunstar was playable, but Alien Soldier? I can't see how it was MEANT to work.)

[CMoon]

i'd have to say okami, the game is like gorgeous and has the gameplay of zelda style action rpg, very good game, just couldnt get myself to replay it again, maybe its the massiveness of it, just like dragon quest 8 i loved it but couldnt do it again.

The thing holding me back from Okami was that damn block that you had to put points on in just the right place and in order. I had to use my camera and film the sequence to be able to get it right.