When was your favorite era of shumps?

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:55 am

pre- 8 bit
8 bit
16 bit
32 bit
post 32 bit

I always hear about the 16 bit era as being the "golden age" of shmups by a lot of mainstream reviewers. Which I don't agree with.

For me, shmups started to peak around the middle or end of the 16 bit era, with games like Thunder Force IV and R-Type III. But really peaked around 95-99, with the 32- bit systems and arcade scene. All of Cave's best stuff was from this time, so was Raizing's. Then you had stuff like Eihander, G- Darius, R-Type Delta, Layer Section, Radiant Silvergun, and Gradius Gaiden just rounding out the awesomeness. And I know i'll get greif from Psikyo fans for not adding them in there, but if you like them, just tack them on to that list.

This for me was truly the golden age of shmups. After that, it's been kinda hit and miss. We've had some absolute classics with Ikaruga and Gradius V. And there's been other good games, but nothing that has really wowed me, besides Treasure's stuff.

Maybe this is kind of the sister thread to "Shumps have grown stale". I agree with that too. I mean, I just think back to way back when, and the quality and amount of great shooters was really something. Now we wait years for anything to some out, and even longer for something to really blow us away. It's depressing.

Well anyway, when was your golden age?

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:00 pm

2005 +

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:06 pm

1999+

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:07 pm

For me it's a tough call between 32-bit and post 32-bit stuff. Very tough call.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:13 pm

Are you talking about console shooters?

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:22 pm

late 90s to early 2000s

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:22 pm

8 - Bit era

Zanac
Power Strike
Power Strike II
TGL
Gun-Nac
Recca
Gradius
Gradius II
Crisis Force
Life Force
Abadox
Star Soldier
Over Horizon
1943
Legendary Wings
R-Type (SMS)

Geezer · Post by **Geezer** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:27 pm

Cave PGM era. That said I was late to the party on those by a couple of years.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:41 pm

Well, "Golden age" usually mean a period of prosperity and growth. For the shmup genre this is definitely the 1987-1993 period. This is when shmups pretty much dominated the video game market.

That being said, the most impressive time was the birth of danmaku/manic around 1995-1997 with a very fast increase of the overall quality of shmups. Games like Donpachi, Battle Garegga, Raiden Fighters, Striker 1945 II, Dodonpachi. At this point shmups evolved into something different, something that kept players around. This change is in fact what made the genre survive up to now.

evil_ash_xero wrote:I mean, I just think back to way back when, and the quality and amount of great shooters was really something. Now we wait years for anything to some out, and even longer for something to really blow us away. It's depressing.

You mean you have 1cced all these great games you speak of and have nothing to do but to wait for newer shmups? If not, I don't see how the fact that fewer quality shmups are being released these years changes anything at all.

This goes back to my point about how the genre "changed" around 1996, before that shmups were made to last a few days/weeks tops, there wasn't that much care put into making the game playable for hundred of hours, with the newer games, only one Cave release a year is equivalent to dozens of relatively low quality shmups that were released in the early 90's.

If you find it "depressing", you have to look at your way of playing/enjoying these games and not at the developers who keep releasing very high quality shmups year after year.

Sly Cherry Chunks · Post by **Sly Cherry Chunks** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:54 pm

1989, with another peak 1994.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:58 pm

MX7 wrote:Are you talking about console shooters?

Talking about both.

s/m

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:01 pm

nimitz wrote:Well, "Golden age" usually mean a period of prosperity and growth. For the shmup genre this is definitely the 1987-1993 period. This is when shmups pretty much dominated the video game market.

That being said, the most impressive time was the birth of danmaku/manic around 1995-1997 with a very fast increase of the overall quality of shmups. Games like Donpachi, Battle Garegga, Raiden Fighters, Striker 1945 II, Dodonpachi. At this point shmups evolved into something different, something that kept players around. This change is in fact what made the genre survive up to now.

evil_ash_xero wrote:I mean, I just think back to way back when, and the quality and amount of great shooters was really something. Now we wait years for anything to some out, and even longer for something to really blow us away. It's depressing.
You mean you have 1cced all these great games you speak of and have nothing to do but to wait for newer shmups? If not, I don't see how the fact that fewer quality shmups are being released these years changes anything at all.

This goes back to my point about how the genre "changed" around 1996, before that shmups were made to last a few days/weeks tops, there wasn't that much care put into making the game playable for hundred of hours, with the newer games, only one Cave release a year is equivalent to dozens of relatively low quality shmups that were released in the early 90's.

If you find it "depressing", you have to look at your way of playing/enjoying these games and not at the developers who keep releasing very high quality shmups year after year.

How come any time someone complains about the state of the industry, someone shows up and asks if you've ICC'd these games? What the fuck does that matter?

s/m

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:01 pm

Geezer wrote:Cave PGM era. That said I was late to the party on those by a couple of years.

spooky. i said this on the arcade board a couple days ago

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:36 pm

1989-1999 period

Life Force
Thunder Force III
R-Type II
Apidya
Agony
Swiv
Disposable Hero
Project X
Axelay
Blazing Star
Lords of Thunder
Raiden I, II & Fighters
Thunder Force V
Gradius III
Pulstar
Thunder Force II
3 Wonders
Twin Cobra II
Aero Figthters
1945 Strikers I & II

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:04 pm

Absolutely 16 bit. Ahh.... sigh.

kozo · Post by **kozo** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:55 pm

The "1979-2008 and beyond" period.

;P

evil_ash_xero wrote:How come any time someone complains about the state of the industry, someone shows up and asks if you've ICC'd these games? What the fuck does that matter?

s/m

It means, "Don't ask for more when you haven't finished the food on your plate."

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:13 am

Probably 16 bit. The Genny had some great games.

Einhander is euroshmup flavored garbage.

If you feel that shmups are stale why not contribute by picking up a free compiler and some free internet programming tutorials? Programming is more accessible to people now than it ever was thanks to the internet.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:48 am

Shmups are not stale just because fewer of them are being released.

Look at DDP:DFK. Does that look stale? Play stale? I don't think so.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:15 am

nimitz wrote:Well, "Golden age" usually mean a period of prosperity and growth. For the shmup genre this is definitely the 1987-1993 period. This is when shmups pretty much dominated the video game market.

That being said, the most impressive time was the birth of danmaku/manic around 1995-1997 with a very fast increase of the overall quality of shmups. Games like Donpachi, Battle Garegga, Raiden Fighters, Striker 1945 II, Dodonpachi. At this point shmups evolved into something different, something that kept players around. This change is in fact what made the genre survive up to now.

Agreed. Most everything after the latter period is tinkering. Some of it very fine tinkering, but tinkering all the same. (My personal favorites are in this period of refinement, games like Shiki 2 and Dragon Blaze 2.)

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:00 am

Shmups have peaked? As long as Cave keeps making shmups, I don't see how anyone will be able to say shmups are in a decline or anything.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:18 am

captpain wrote:Shmups are not stale just because fewer of them are being released.

Look at DDP:DFK. Does that look stale? Play stale? I don't think so.

Well, Cave's games aren't changing much at all. And there's nothing fresh coming out that's really good. It's just Cave's shmups, which are very much like their old shmups(not a bad thing, but still), and then a few other games here and there from time to time.

This is not what I would call a "healthy" situation for the hobby.

I mean seriously, we're at the point where if Cave didn't make shumps anymore, there would be almost no shmups coming out whatsoever.

I mean, how can any of you seriously think we're in a good place right now?

s/m

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:41 am

evil_ash_xero wrote:
captpain wrote:Shmups are not stale just because fewer of them are being released.

Look at DDP:DFK. Does that look stale? Play stale? I don't think so.
Well, Cave's games aren't changing much at all. And there's nothing fresh coming out that's really good. It's just Cave's shmups, which are very much like their old shmups(not a bad thing, but still), and then a few other games here and there from time to time.

This is not what I would call a "healthy" situation for the hobby.

I mean seriously, we're at the point where if Cave didn't make shumps anymore, there would be almost no shmups coming out whatsoever.

I mean, how can any of you seriously think we're in a good place right now?

s/m

It's not a good place, for sure...
but when people use the word "stale". almost always they don't know about ,well... everything

from 2000+ cave to all the myriad shooters of raizing, cave, psykio etc before

edit: and the gazillions of freeware/doujin shmups

kozo · Post by **kozo** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:29 am

Yes, I know some dislike them (and sometimes for a decent reason) but there are doujin shmups being released ALL THE TIME. I mean, a constant flow. If Cave dropped off shmups completely, at worst we'd still have the doujin stuff, and some of it is VERY high quality. Kamui, Armed Seven, Exception, Hellsinker, Samidare, RefleX, The Under Stellar 2, and End Effector are all good ones, ranging from fun to jaw-dropping. And that's just from memory.

I think shmups are fine. They're moving away from commerical releases and more into the hands of the users, and if anyone knows what we want, it's us.

Octopod · Post by **Octopod** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:44 am

evil_ash_xero wrote:pre- 8 bit
8 bit
16 bit
32 bit
post 32 bit

What is a pre 8-bit STG? Personally i think every generation had something to offer. I like games from all eras...as long as they are good(which i guess goes without saying, even though i said it.).

kozo · Post by **kozo** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:06 am

Octopod wrote:I think every generation had something to offer. I like games from all eras.

This is what I was getting at.

It's hard for me to pinpoint ONE era, they all have great awesome shiny moments.

evil_ash_xero · Post by **evil_ash_xero** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:48 am

Octopod wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:pre- 8 bit
8 bit
16 bit
32 bit
post 32 bit

What is a pre 8-bit STG? Personally i think every generation had something to offer. I like games from all eras...as long as they are good(which i guess goes without saying, even though i said it.).

Mm..I was thinking Space Invaders or something. Galaga..stuff like that.

s/m

emphatic · Post by **emphatic** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:38 am

1987+

Emph

ZOM · Post by **ZOM** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:23 pm

Octopod wrote: i think every generation had something to offer. I like games from all eras.

This +1

ott0bot · Post by **ott0bot** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:09 pm

ZOM wrote:
Octopod wrote: i think every generation had something to offer. I like games from all eras.
This +1

I agree, but mostly play 16 bit shmups. Genesis & Sega Cd titles are the ones I really enjoy.....but I'll veture to any system to play a great game.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:11 pm

professor ganson wrote:
nimitz wrote:Well, "Golden age" usually mean a period of prosperity and growth. For the shmup genre this is definitely the 1987-1993 period. This is when shmups pretty much dominated the video game market.

That being said, the most impressive time was the birth of danmaku/manic around 1995-1997 with a very fast increase of the overall quality of shmups. Games like Donpachi, Battle Garegga, Raiden Fighters, Striker 1945 II, Dodonpachi. At this point shmups evolved into something different, something that kept players around. This change is in fact what made the genre survive up to now.
Agreed. Most everything after the latter period is tinkering. Some of it very fine tinkering, but tinkering all the same. (My personal favorites are in this period of refinement, games like Shiki 2 and Dragon Blaze 2.)

For professor ganson,

I must have missed the Psikyo boat if Dragon Blaze 2 PCB came out...is it better than the first one in terms of gameplay and game mechanics? ^_~

You must be thinking of Dragon Blaze PCB, right?

-------------------------

For nimitz,

You're spot on in listing the years that some memorable arcade shmup PCB titles came out. The release of the fighting genre in 1991 with Street Fighter II from Capcom started the eventual decline of the regining shmup genre throne.

My question is this then:

What American arcade distributor distributed the entire Strikers 1945 PCB series (i.e. Strikers 1945, Strikers 1945 II and Strikers 1945 III PCBs)?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

shmups.system11.org

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