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 Post subject: results: Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2004)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:49 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 99
Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2004)

Code:
Game                                                        Score    2003  "2002"
[01] DoDonPachi                                             6.57      .      .
[02] Ikaruga                                                5.86      .      +
[03] Gradius V                                              5.13      *      *
[04] Radiant Silvergun                                      4.89      +      +
[05] Gunbird 2                                              4.44      +      +
[06] ThunderForce III                                       4.26      -      -
[07] Mars Matrix                                            4.18      +      +
[08] Soukyugurentai / Terra Diver                           4.10      +      +
[09] Gradius Gaiden                                         3.90      +      +
[10] Layer Section / Rayforce / Gunlock / Galactic Attack   3.87      -      *
[11] R-Type                                                 3.74      -      +
[12] Shikigami no Shiro 2                                   3.65      *      *
[13] DoDonPachi Dai Ou Jou                                  3.57      +      *
[14] Strikers 1945 II                                       3.55      +      -
[15] ESPGaluda                                              3.511     *      *
[16] Batsugun / Batsugun Special Edition                    3.510     +      *
[17] DonPachi                                               3.509     -      -
[18] Armed Police Batrider                                  3.44      *      *
[19] Giga Wing                                              3.43      -      *
[20] Raiden DX                                              3.30      *      *
[21] ESPrade                                                3.11      -      -
[22] Thunder Force IV / Lightening Force                    3.08      +      -
[23] Thunder Force V                                        3.07      *      -
[24] Einhander                                              3.02      *      *
[25] R-Type Delta                                           2.83      *      *

  • . denotes the game holds the same position now as the year indicated.
  • + denotes the game holds an improved standing compared to the year indicated.
  • - denotes the game holds a reduced standing compared to the year indicated.
  • * denotes the game was not on the list for the year indicated.

Honorable Mention
Code:
                                                        2003    "2002"[1]
19XX: The War Against Destiny                            +
Axelay                                                   -
Battle Bakraid                                           .
Battle Garegga                                           -
Blazing Star                                             +
Border Down                                              +
Cyvern                                                   +
Darius Gaiden                                            +
Dangun Feveron                                           .
Dimahoo                                                  .
Dragon Blaze                                             +
G Darius                                                 .
Gaiares                                                  .
Galaga                                                   +
Gate of Thunder                                          .
Giga Wing 2                                              .
Gradius / Nemesis                                        .
Gradius II Gofer no Yabo                                 .
Gradius III (SNES)                                       .
Gunhed / Blazing Lazers                                  .
Guwange                                                  -
Imperishable Night                                       +
Ketsui no Kizuna                                         +
Life Force (NES)                                         - [2]
Lords of Thunder / Winds of Thunder                      .
Musha Aleste / M.U.S.H.A.                                -
Parsec 47                                                +
Raiden II                                                .
Raiden Fighters Jet                                      .
Recca                                                    +
Salamander                                               - [2]
Sengoku Blade / Tengai                                   -
Sexy Parodius                                            +
Soldier Blade                                            .
Strikers 1945                                            .
Super Aleste / Space Megaforce                           .
U.N. Squadron (SNES) / Area 88 (SNES)                    .
Zanac (NES) / Zanac EX (MSX)                             +
Zanac Neo                                                -
Zero Gunner 2                                            -

  1. Note: Honorable Mention Comparisons are not given for 2002 because the mechanism used to calculate them was considerably different from what was used for 2003 and 2004.
  2. Note: For 2003, NES LifeForce was not considered separately from Salamander, which collectively made the top 25.
  • . denotes the game was also on the HM list for the year indicated.
  • + denotes the game was on neither the HM list nor the top 25 for the year indicated.
  • - denotes the game was in the top 25 for the year indicated.

What Dropped from 2003's Top 25:
  • Axelay
  • Battle Garegga
  • Guwange
  • (Life Force (NES) AND Salamander) (see note above and comment below)
  • Musha Aleste
  • Sengoku Blade
  • Zanac Neo
  • Zero Gunner 2

What Dropped from 2003's Honorable Mentions:
  • Gokujou Parodius
  • Hellfire
  • Parodius Da!
  • R-Type III: The Third Lightning
  • Raiden
  • Shienryu / Shienryu Gekioh / Gekioh: Shooting King
  • Tatsujin / Truxton
  • Twin Cobra / Kyukyoko Tiger

Breakdown by Developer
Code:
                        Top 25         Hon.M.          Overall
Cave                       5              8              13
Konami                     1.5            6               7.5 [3]
Compile                    0              6               6
Psikyo                     2              4               6
Raizing                    2              3               5
Seibu Kaihatsu             1              2               3
Takumi                     2              1               3
Taito                      1              2               3
Technosoft                 3              0               3
Treasure                   2.5            0               2.5 [3]
Capcom                     0              2               2
Irem                       2              0               2
Red                        0              2               2
ABA Games                  0              1               1
Alfa System                1              0               1
G.Rev                      0              1               1
Hudson                     0              1               1
Kaneko                     0              1               1
Namco                      0              1               1
Naxatsoft                  0              1               1
Renovation                 0              1               1
Shrine Maiden              0              1               1
SNK                        0              1               1
Square                     1              0               1
Toaplan                    1              0               1

3. Note:I split developer for Gradius V between Treasure and Konami simply because it is such a well-established series.

Breakdown by Year

BydoBasher wrote:
Code:
YEAR   TOP25   HON.M.   OVERALL   TITLES
1981     0        1        1      Galaga
1982     0        0        0
1983     0        0        0
1984     0        0        0
1985     0        1        1      Gradius   
1986     0        2        2      Salamander, ZanacEX
1987     1        1        2      R-Type, LifeForce(NES)
1988     0        1        1      Gradius2
1989     0        1        1      Gunhed
1990     1        3        4      TF3, Gaiares, Gradius3(SNES), MUSHA
1991     0        1        1      UNSquadron(SNES)
1992     1        5        6      TF4, Axelay, GoT, Recca, Sldr.Blade, S.Aleste
1993     2        2        4      RayForce, Batsugun, LoT, Raiden2
1994     1        1        2      RaidenDX, DariusGaiden
1995     1        1        2      DonPachi, S1945
1996     1        4        5      Souky, 19XX, Garegga, Tengai, SexyParo
1997     6        1        7      DDP, GradiusG, S1945II, APB, TF5, Einhander, GDarius
1998     4        4        8      RS, GB2, ESP, RTD, BlazStar, Cyvern, Feveron, RFJet
1999     1        2        3      GigaWing, Bakraid, Guwange
2000     1        2        3      MarsMatrix, Dimahoo, DragonBlaze
2001     0        3        3      GigaWing2, ZanacNeo, ZeroGunner2
2002     2        1        3      Ikaruga, DDPDoJ, Ketsui
2003     2        2        4      SnS2, ESP2, BorderDown, Parsec47
2004     1        1        2      GradiusV, ImperishableNight


Some notes:

  • In the "Titles" column, top 25 games are listed before the honourable mentions. For example, in the 2003 row, which has two top 25 games and two honourable mentions, SnS2 and ESPGaluda are top 25, while Border Down and Parsec 47 are Hon.M.
  • I'm not sure about the date for Giga Wing 2. I have it here as 2001, but I've seen some places on the web that have it as 2000. Can anyone confirm? Of course, if anyone spots anything else that may be incorrect, please say so.
  • I have the date on Life Force (NES) as 1987. Actually, LF is dated 1988, but Salamander (Famicom) is dated 1987, and as they are basically the same thing -- give or take an option -- I thought 1987 was more appropriate.
  • 20 of the 65 games listed here -- almost a third of the total (!) -- are from the three year span of 1996-1998.
  • 1992 does particularly well for itself, with 6 total entries. I've always felt that 1992 was a good year for shmups; it can boast of titles like Gley Lancer, Last Resort, R-Type Leo, Viewpoint, Mystic Riders, and Truxton 2 in addition to those games listed above.


Breakdown by Original Platform
Code:
                        Top 25         Hon.M.          Overall
Arcade                    17             24              41
PS1                        4              1               5
Mega Drive/Genesis         2              2               4
PCE and PCE CD             0              4               4
SNES / SFC                 0              4               4
NES                        0              3               3
PC (Windows)               0              2               2
PS2                        1              0               1
Saturn                     1              0               1


Miscellaneous Stats:
  • Number of Actual Voters: 55
  • Scaled Number of Voters: 49.28
  • Games Supported by at least half of voters: 1
  • Games Supported by at least 1/4 of voters: 26
  • Number of Honorable Mentions: 40
  • Top 25 Score Spread: 2.832 - 6.568
  • Honorable Mention Score Spread: 1.422 - 2.817
  • Total Score Spread: 0.003 - 6.568

Comments / Observations:
  • First off: a massive thanks to Zhon! The past couple years I'd done this all with a convoluted spreadsheet, which required manual data entry. Zhon volunteered to write an app to do all the calculations and data entry if we had a standard vote format. He did and it freed me from having to run several time-consuming checks. Instead, I was able to concentrate on making sure votes were valid; complete; etc. If it wasn't for Zhon making the effort to write this program, I would not have had time to do this this year.
  • For the Honorable Mention list, I usually just alphabetize the list and leave it at that. In this case, however, Zanac (NES) -- practically 20 years old -- missed the top 25 by a mere 0.02, despite never making even the mention list in previous years.
  • OK...one more. This is the first year votes for protoshmups (i.e. one-degree of player movement; e.g. Space Invaders, Galaga) were explicitly encouraged. And Galaga did come quite close to making the top 25.
  • Treasure nabbed the 2-4 spots. It will be interesting to see whether Gradius V goes up or down next year.
  • TF III, DonPachi, and ESPrade continue to lose position, but only TF III remains in the top 10.
  • Gradius Gaiden, Gunbird 2, Mars Matrix, Radiant Silvergun, and Soukyugurentai all continued bubbling up to higher spots on the list. (All are presently in the top 10.)
  • Of the eight games new to the top 25, only one was released in 2004. (R-Type Delta finally made the top 25, but R-Type Final didn't even show up as honorable mention.)
  • Raiden DX seems to have supplanted Raiden in most voters' minds; this year Sexy Parodius replaced Gokujo Paro and Parodius Da!.
  • Old school vs new school: only one top 25 game (R-Type) was released on an 8-bit console. Only two were released for 16-bit consoles. (Compare with nine 16-bitters on the 2002 list. Every one of them is still on the Honorable Mention list, however.)
  • Once again, Progear was the only non-new Cave game not to make either list.
  • Again: based on discussion about the series, votes for NES Life Force were separated from votes for Salamander this year. Had that not been the case, the "game" would have nabbed the 13th spot. As is, both NES Life Force AND Salamander made the honorable mention list. corrected
  • Gunbird is still the only game to make the top 25 at any point yet fall off both lists.
  • You can find previous discussion about this year's votes here.
  • The votes themselves are here.
  • Thanks to all who voted! (Especially those who disagree w/ the shmup definition used but decided to cast anyway. Overall, I think we're picking up about a dozen voters each year.


CORRECTION:2005.05.02: Salamander DID make the honorable mention. Updated list and other stats accordingly.
EDIT:2005.05.05: Added Bydobasher's breakdown of games by release-year. mumbleandmumblecorrectedmymumbleerrorabouthowmumblemanymumblegameswerereleasedin2004mumble.
CORRECTION:2005.06.05: Only one game -- not two -- received votes from at least half of voters. (It was Ikaruga; DDP missed by a smidge.)


Last edited by nullstar on Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:13 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: results: Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2004)
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 3:53 am 


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Posts: 628
Location: Middlebury, VT
nullstar wrote:
[*]Old school vs new school: only one top 25 game (R-Type) was released on an 8-bit console. Only two were released for 16-bit consoles. (Compare with nine 16-bitters on the 2002 list. Every one of them is still on the Honorable Mention list, however.)


The old discussion thread pretty explicityly states *Voting* at the end, so I don't know if this thread or there is the approriate place for comments. Oh well, you can just break this off into a different thread if you want.

Anyway, I was going to say a lot of things, mainly just bitching about Treasure's dominance and other asinine details. But really, it was that comment that really struck a cord with me.

I remember the first voting, I had just joined when that took place. And I still think that those results were the best. There were far fewer members back then, and I think more people who were voting were really qualified, having the necessary breadth of experience.

We may not admit it, but we really aren't that much different from the mainstream. We're all enthralled with eyecandy, and are biased towards newer games, often neglecting previous generations. We don't do it as badly as the average gamer, but it seems to me these results confirm that a lot of people refuse to bother with older systems like the TG-16 and Genesis. Like most other gamers, the only old games some people are appreciating our the ones they're nostalgic for. Lots of NES stuff.

PS - I expected Galaga to do a hell of a lot better.


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 Post subject: Re: results: Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2004)
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 3:59 am 



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Posts: 99
alpha5099 wrote:
The old discussion thread pretty explicityly states *Voting* at the end, so I don't know if this thread or there is the approriate place for comments.
Yes -- here's the place for results discussion.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 4:20 am 


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List turned out better than expected. Better than last year's, which was the best shooter list. Gunbird 2 at #5. Wow, I think we all know which people to thank for that.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:36 am 


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I judged myself not qualified to vote, and sure enough most of the top 25 are games that I haven't played. My $.02 anyway: Air Buster is missing a mention


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 8:22 am 


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Quote:
We may not admit it, but we really aren't that much different from the mainstream. We're all enthralled with eyecandy, and are biased towards newer games, often neglecting previous generations. We don't do it as badly as the average gamer, but it seems to me these results confirm that a lot of people refuse to bother with older systems like the TG-16 and Genesis. Like most other gamers, the only old games some people are appreciating our the ones they're nostalgic for. Lots of NES stuff.


there´s certainly SOME truth to this statement, but I think the main reason for the phenomenon of 16bit games dropping off the list is simply that the list only has 25 places, and new games are added to the canon each year. Two years ago, there weren´t many new shmups coming out, so the list was really focussed on "of all time". But recently, the number of new releases has increased again, and of course it takes time to play a new game until you can judge it fairly compared to other games. When it´s new, there´s always enthusiasm making votes a little biased towards the new. But that will settle over time.

What really surprised me is the fact Armed Police Batrider does make the list, but Battle Garegga doesn´t. I´m completely at a loss for explaining that.

As for the bitching: it´s hard, but I´ll try to keep my mouth shut.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 8:46 am 


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List came out pretty good. I really think Raiden Fighters Jet and Dragon Blaze should be top 25, but Gunbird 2 at #5 makes up for that big time. I'm pretty surprised there.

...and Batrider > Garegga. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 8:56 am 


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Would agree with only a small percentage of it, but there are definitely some solid games on there.

Some not so solid...put the voting thread back up so I can see who voted for Shiki 2 :P


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 10:25 am 


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cigsthecat wrote:
...and Batrider > Garegga. Thank you.


Yes. Indeed :D
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 Post subject: Older console representation
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 10:59 am 


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I think year on year, the older home computer and console titles are going to vanish from the voting. New people to the genre won't remember them, plain and simple - and will most likely get their older game exposure through MAME.

Quite surprised that between them, Treasure and Cave tied up a lot of the better places, and VERY surprised to see Gunbird 2 placed so highly instead of Dragon Blaze.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 11:59 am 


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Tar-Palantir wrote:
cigsthecat wrote:
...and Batrider > Garegga. Thank you.


Yes. Indeed :D


yeah well, like I said, could one of you explain WHAT is better about Batrider? I only played it for a short time, and I know it has tons of options, stages, that kind of stuff, but the level design didn´t exactly convince me. I´m wondering if there will be someone playing Batrider for 8 years to make a DVD out of it, but mainly I´d like to know what´s so special about Batrider. It´s an honest question, not an attempt to criticize the results or something.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 12:35 pm 


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I demand a recount!!! :twisted: :wink:

How on earth could Einhander and Mars Matrix get in the top 25,while Salamander doesn't even get an honorable mention (since it got seperated from Lifeforce) ! :? :evil:

Good to see Gunbird 2 high in the list and Giga Wing beating out it's succesor though :D


Oh and thanks to Nullstar and Zhon going through all the trouble getting the list together! It´s appreciated as I am sure you know! :)
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Last edited by Super Laydock on Sun May 01, 2005 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 1:34 pm 



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Really interesting.

I also felt that I was unqualified to vote, but will certainly vote next year.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 1:52 pm 


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raiden wrote:
yeah well, like I said, could one of you explain WHAT is better about Batrider? .


I would have to say it is more fun than Garegga. Garegga is a greater shmup than Batrider, but not a better one.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 2:53 pm 


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The Breakdown by original console just doesnt seem right to me, it may be correct but just doesnt seem right!
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:19 pm 


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*vomits*


Ah well, c'est la ve. At least I voted this time. Image
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:23 pm 


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MovingTarget wrote:
The Breakdown by original console just doesnt seem right to me, it may be correct but just doesnt seem right!



Thats because it isn't... there are 7 Saturn games in the top 25 (10 if you count the Pachis and Strikers 1945 II) and 3 in honorable mention. :?
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:50 pm 


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jp wrote:
Thats because it isn't... there are 7 Saturn games in the top 25 (10 if you count the Pachis and Strikers 1945 II) and 3 in honorable mention. :?


Original console. Most of the Saturn's shmups (both on the list and in general) were originally arcade titles.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:57 pm 


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I think the 'original' part should be removed. I think the formats should get points for any game that it has in the top 25 not just the ones that were exclusive to it or appeared first on it.... Or maybe a table for both.

Still, big ups for the top 25 :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 6:00 pm 


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Or just get rid of the shmups divided by platform for this voting list...as it doesn't add much to the final picture as far as I am concerned.

People can check out the voting thread to see what versions got the votes.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 7:12 pm 


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Looks like the DDP and TF series retain their dominance...


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 7:20 pm 


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Swap TF3 and 4, dump 5.


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 7:38 pm 


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Seems like a reasonable list.

Border Down should be in the top 25, in my opinion, hell it should be in the top 10.
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 8:00 pm 


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I'm amazed Mars Matrix did so well, didn't think it had the mass appeal of the cave and raizing games.

And no Guwange is a crime :x


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 9:37 pm 


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Where is border down i ask thee!

I think its safe to say we are in the age of the manic shmup.(thanks to cave......)
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Can't say I agree with TF3 not being on the list if TF4 is.

Really surprised at DDP being #1, I would have thought DDPDOJ would be higher ranked than its predecessor.


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:13 am 


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Rob wrote:
Swap TF3 and 4, dump 5.


Ditto. Also, bump GG a spot up.

I didn't vote so whatever.
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:32 am 


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LoneSage wrote:
Can't say I agree with TF3 not being on the list if TF4 is.

Really surprised at DDP being #1, I would have thought DDPDOJ would be higher ranked than its predecessor.


What do you mean "not on the list"? It's number 6.


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It surprises me that DoDonPachi is the No.1! :shock:
I mean it's just a mindless shooter! Very few weapons, reparative Boss patterns & level layouts...

Also why isn’t Axelay in the Top 25?! Graphically it beats the heck out of R-Type, Raiden DX, Thunder Force IV / Lightening Force & most of the others listed, in the gameplay department.

Ok I know Ikaruga & Radiant Silvergun are very cool shmups but they don’t deserve to be ranked up so high in that list. They’re much overrated imho, just because they’re made by Treasure. There are other much more enjoyable shooters like: Lords of Thunder, RayStorm, that didn’t even make in the Top 25! That’s Crime!

I can’t believe that none of the Parodius games made it to the Top25! Especially Sexy Parodius is addictive like Crack!
Also where is the Cotton Series, Dragon Blaze, Cyvern, Area 88 or Carrier Airwing?!

People prefer R-Type & R-Type delta to R-Type II, R-Type Leo & Final!?
Or Raiden DX to Raiden II, Raiden Fighters II & Jet!?
That’s obscure!

DonPachi shouldn’t even be in the TOP25 leaving out games like Twin Cobra II, Super Spacefortress Macross, or 1945 Strikers Plus.

It’s weird that Mars Matrix & Einhander made it to the Top25. Others like:
Border Down, In The Hunt, Dimahou, Pro-Gear no Arashi, are much better imo & aren’t in the Top25!

This Top25 seems incomplete to me…


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 1:21 am 


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Hmm, that was an interesting post.


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