Fast arcade action vs Slow strategic action in shmups

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:27 pm

This is not meant to be a debate over what is preferable (but by all means - be my guest). What I really want to know is the following:

Does anyone think shmups would benefit from forcing the player to be even more strategic in his actions than they have done so far? For me anything further than finding a safe/effective route trough a level is already to strategic (even switching between a primary and secondary weapon feels like to much) but of course, one mans strategic action is another mans furious arcade action. Feel free to expand upon my question as you see fit. (Is that moozooh I hear approaching?)

orange · Post by **orange** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:28 pm

i facepalmed when i saw the title

i hate how people associate strategic with slow

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:35 pm

Yep, look at Batrider. Incredibly complex game, layers and layers of strategy, super fast and very hard.

R-Type != strategy

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Mon May 26, 2008 5:32 am

orange wrote:i facepalmed when i saw the title

i hate how people associate strategic with slow

Zebra Airforce wrote:Yep, look at Batrider. Incredibly complex game, layers and layers of strategy, super fast and very hard.

Good. Then we have established that strategic gameplay does not have to mean slow gameplay (although I wouldn't call Batrider superfast).

kengou · Post by **kengou** » Mon May 26, 2008 6:43 am

Zebra Airforce wrote:Yep, look at Batrider. Incredibly complex game, layers and layers of strategy, super fast and very hard.

R-Type != strategy

Thank you. I hate seeing people say (to use the R-Type example) that it's "slower, more strategic gameplay". It is slower, but what's so strategic about memorizing routes through levels so you don't die? In my mind, strategic has more in common with coming up with scoring strategies on-the-fly in ESPGaluda, or figuring out how to keep your chain alive in DDP/DOJ/Ikaruga/any game with chains. Lots of very fast games have more strategy than a lot of slow games I can think of.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon May 26, 2008 7:07 am

The DDPs are very strategic (scoring aside) in the sense that you have to find safe-ish paths to take through the stages or you'll get killed or be forced to bomb, and they're quite fast, DOJ in particular.

A good blend of both would be nice. Some of Psikyo's bullet sprays are simply too fast, some of Cave's scoring systems are simply too anal, and Raizing games are far too convoluted and unintuitive. ESPgaluda would be the absolute ideal mixture if only it had a second loop or an ultra mode something. Perhaps ESPgaluda2 is that balance I'm looking for, but unfortunately it's one I'll probably never play =(

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Mon May 26, 2008 8:08 am

knowing is half the battle = strategy = knowledge

thus, all games are half strategy

QED

Another truth if you please:

Axelay is BAD because it has some water sections where ur ship slowz

Thus, R-Type II is BAD because of the water stage where ur ship slowz and speedz when you enter/exit the waters

TRUF and quod erat demonstrandum AGEN

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Mon May 26, 2008 9:24 am

lol, need moar RHE

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:24 am

Both.