Lets talk about firearms- guns...

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:34 pm

This thread is about firearms. The legal/illegal use of. Should we (law abiding citizens) have them? Why or why not?

Basically- I'm due to give another speech in a few weeks- and I'm just trying to get an idea of some of the comebacks that are sure to be in the debate. My last topic I posted here I got some information that helped me form valid arguments- did really well with it all.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:53 pm

Criminals will always obtain them regardless of laws and limitations placed on their sales. A criminal is less likely to shoot when they know that 7 of the people around them could kill them in defense. There are some funny stories about robbers/thieves being held up themselves until the law arrives.

DirtyMonk · Post by **DirtyMonk** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:04 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJGcrUk2eE

Michaelm · Post by **Michaelm** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:21 pm

Pixel_Outlaw wrote:Criminals will always obtain them regardless of laws and limitations placed on their sales. A criminal is less likely to shoot when they know that 7 of the people around them could kill them in defense. There are some funny stories about robbers/thieves being held up themselves until the law arrives.

Addicts will get drugs regardless of laws and limitations placed on their sales.
An addict is less likely to resort to criminal activities or even be seen as a criminal when drugs would be legal.....

With guns, there will always be one who's got the biggest.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:45 pm

Guns don't kill people, guns kill people; people kill people, people don't kill people.

What else..?

themachinist · Post by **themachinist** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:11 pm

I think gun control is impossible, there are way too many guns in the wild. Look at washington d.c.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:24 pm

Yes, it's impossible. Let's not even try and instead sell more. There probably aren't enough automatic weapons yet.

/sarcasm

We had the same discussion after the last school massacre. Conclusion: It's insane to have millions upon millions of privately owned guns in a country. Proof: Just look at the number of people killed by guns in countries that do have gun control. There is no sane reason why any private citizen should be allowed to own anything more powerful than an airgun.

/END OF THREAD.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:34 pm

What's wrong with this place. It gets all looney and people start getting all violent. What's all this talk about knives and guns and stabbing people. Oh, wait...

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:40 pm

I used to own a small automatic that I carried everywhere. I thought I needed it.
I got into more trouble than usual just because I thought I didnt have to be careful of where I was & what I was doing.
I could just pull out my lil gun & blast 'em! I know, very mature...

I once used it to hold off 5 or 6 guys that had me backed up to my car with no escape. All because I thought I could go anywhere & say anything to anyone. I told them yeah, I was scared shit-less at the moment & if anybody made a more toward me I would start pulling the trigger.
Fortunately, they mustve seen the fear in my eyes cuz they finally backed off.

What a dumbass...
The best thing that happened to me was somebody stole it. I reported it missing & went back to my normal way of life of using common sense & not being such a tough guy.

BTW, about 2 weeks later someone or someones smashed out all the windows in my car while leaving all the other cars near mine alone.
I think that was the ass whooping I was supposed to get from those guys...

I havent had a gun since & I dont want one but I sure prefer the outlaws thinking I just might...

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:41 pm

Banning guns seems like enforcing abstinence through castration. I like my .50 cal Doom Cock, thank you very much.

themachinist · Post by **themachinist** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:42 pm

Hey i never said we shouldn't try.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:25 pm

Mortificator wrote:Banning guns seems like enforcing abstinence through castration.

What does one thing have to do with the other? Ah yes, nothing.
Thank goodness for my bullshit detector.

Not banning guns = insanity. No analogy needed.

And also: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 676#354676

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:20 am

I think I'd feel safer if I could own an rpg. In fact I think gun laws should be tailored to the type of area you live in.

ie. If you live in West Virginia or in a desert area with lots of mountains, you would want a high powered gun to defend yourself from inbred mutants.

Skykid · Post by **Skykid** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:25 am

I have an airsoft BB gun from Japan. It rules. I can hit the lampost over the road.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:47 am

Ceph wrote:Yes, it's impossible. Let's not even try and instead sell more. There probably aren't enough automatic weapons yet.

/sarcasm

We had the same discussion after the last school massacre. Conclusion: It's insane to have millions upon millions of privately owned guns in a country. Proof: Just look at the number of people killed by guns in countries that do have gun control. There is no sane reason why any private citizen should be allowed to own anything more powerful than an airgun.

/END OF THREAD.

Its the only time I've thought it true, but "listen to Ceph 'cause he's smart and stuff."

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:08 am

I'm not the type who would own a gun, or needs to, so I'm less than optimally informed on/involved in this topic, but I recall recently seeing something on TV about the drug wars going on down in Mexico, and how supposedly a lot of those gangs are getting their weapons from the USA. Of course, the drug war is a whole other topic in itself, but just on the gun issue alone...

While I can understand why someone might want to own "a gun", I do wonder why some people feel the need to stockpile enough firepower to take over a small nation...I mean, a hunting rifle or two I can understand, but why are gun shops openly selling armor-piercing automatic assault weapons and grenades and whatnot, oftentimes with no limits as to how many can be bought at once and no waiting period? What do they think is going to be done with them? And more to the point, do they even care?

Deer must be packing more than just pointy antlers nowadays, I guess.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:21 am

Mexico is a place where gun ownership is forbidden, yet gun violence still happens from people who obtain them illegally. So bannage=phail.

I know it. I lived there.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:50 am

In those states that allow concealed weapons permits, criminals have to keep the thought that that could be a possibility that the average Joe Blow could be carrying a concealed weapon...

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:53 am

Joe could blow his own dick off too...packing heat has potential disadvantages, after all.

Plus Doodude's little story should give people pause...they'll just come back for you later.

doodude · Post by **doodude** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:32 am

BulletMagnet wrote: While I can understand why someone might want to own "a gun", I do wonder why some people feel the need to stockpile enough firepower to take over a small nation...I mean, a hunting rifle or two I can understand, but why are gun shops openly selling armor-piercing automatic assault weapons and grenades and whatnot, oftentimes with no limits as to how many can be bought at once and no waiting period?

Very much agreed!

I grew up around guns. My Dad & older brother both had hunting rifles & went deer hunting & such.
My wifes brothers have guns & hunt & I have no problem with a few hunting rifles.
Much to my Dad's chagrin I was not a hunter/killer type & Ive never killed anything, dont want to kill anything & doubt I will ever kill anything.
But golly, what I can do with colors...

Daedalus · Post by **Daedalus** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:27 am

I think that gun ownership should be legal, but conceal/carry permits shouldn't be.

Personally, I think the whole "self-defense" aspect of firearm ownership is a crock of shit. Criminals will rarely burgle your home while you're there, and on the rare event that you are and manage to shoot them, you better be damn well prepared to show they intended more than just a property crime. And in public, for states that do have conceal/carry laws, how many crimes do you see being foiled by civilians who happened to be carrying their trusty pistol?

Also, I don't have any solid evidence for this, but one major reason I'm against carrying weapons is I know a lot of folks who have anger issues. If they're having a bad day and get into a scrap or something, it's best for everyone if they don't have a gun within reach.

Regarding gun crime... Yes, countries that ban civilian ownership of guns do have lower gun rates - but not necessarily lower crime rates. Crimes that would have been carried out with guns are instead carried out with knives or improvised weapons. Perhaps slightly better... but it's much wiser to attack crime itself rather than something peripheral like gun sales.

One of the biggest reason I'm a fan of gun ownership is that a well-armed population is an excellent safeguard. Internally, if our government ever turned totalitarian, suffered a military coup, etc, they'd have a large and heavily armed civilian population to deal with. Externally, this allows us to be safer with a smaller military because in the (highly unlikely) event of a foreign invasion, soldiers would have a difficult time holding territory in which so many citizens hold guns.

Anyways, those are my thoughts on the subject. Good luck with your speech!

zubiac · Post by **zubiac** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:02 am

Just listen to Ceph 'cause he's smart and stuff.

this

ED-057 · Post by **ED-057** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:54 am

I'm not a gun enthusiast so I wouldn't mind if all the guns disappeared, but at the same time I see an all-out ban as yet another government instrusion that would not be worth it. The horse is already out of the barn, so to speak. Criminalizing gun posession would create a bunch of criminals where there were none before. The task of keeping this contraband out of citizens' hands would be a significant diversion of resources and an excuse for further expansion of police power.

I see it being very much like the war on (some) drugs. And for what? Sure, it will eliminate some freak accidents, and the occasional shooting by a reckless asshole who lost his head in an argument. It won't stop premeditated murder or various other crimes. And one reason that a single armed person can shoot up a school is because no one else there is armed, makes no difference whether the shooter obtained his firearm legally.

This is one time I disagree with the "just listen to Ceph" meme.

MX7 · Post by **MX7** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:08 am

The primary function of guns are to kill and mame. Any 'culture' that is built up around this is an inherently violent one. Banning guns isn't just about prohibiting the actual weapons, it's also about dealing with the sociology that exists around it. This is why it is harder to deal with gun crime in certain areas, where this culture of violence is more ingrained. It can be tackled though. It just takes time and a lot of persistance. The city where I live is notorious for gun crime, but things are changing. It's changing slowly, but its happening.

Personally, I think air guns should also be banned outright. I used to work in a vetinary surgery, and the amount of animals that we had to treat that had been shot with air rifles was insane. I myself have had several cats shot: thankfully none of them died. I'm not saying that people can't own air guns without becoming little shits, but the fact is if they're out there, animals are going to be hurt and killed for no dicernable reason. In my mind, I'd rather see ten people moaning to me about their civil liberties being infringed rather than one more cat with its legs shot out.

charlie chong · Post by **charlie chong** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:13 am

g-cons are pretty cool ... not as good as superscopes or nintendo zappers .. i think the sega menacer may be teh most accuratist tho.

Michaelm · Post by **Michaelm** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:06 am

Specineff wrote:Mexico is a place where gun ownership is forbidden, yet gun violence still happens from people who obtain them illegally. So bannage=phail.

Ah, the logic

Your last sentence is so far from the truth its funny.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:54 am

im of the opinion that firearms should be completely illegal and under harsh penalty.

with exeptions for hunting and in the line of duty (some police officers, miltary, animal control) where they should be licenced and registered, also restrictions should be placed on the type of firearm each field can use.

fortunatley i live in a country where this is somewhat of a reality and the general availability is not completely out of control.

bakaichi · Post by **bakaichi** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:15 am

sven666 wrote: fortunatley i live in a country where this is somewhat of a reality and the general availability is not completely out of control.

In my country not even the police carry guns, and for some strange reason they don't get shot.

Anyway, gun controll yes, but it should be legal to own guns I want a gun (my own gun) I want to shoot animals.

Ozymandiaz1260 · Post by **Ozymandiaz1260** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:25 pm

It's funny how whenever this sort of thing comes up on a public forum like eighty percent of the Americans are against gun control and pretty much the whole rest of the world is against guns altogether. I don't really get why people debate it in America though, it's in the Bill of Rights and it isn't going to be changing anytime soon. If the government started going to peoples houses to confiscate their guns, it would probably just result in a bunch of dead police officers.

MA7 · Post by **MA7** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:25 pm

places without guns have much lower gun crime.
I prefer to live in those places

I've not yet heard a good argument for allowing private citizens firearms.

Hunting? Make it fair man, if you're hunting a bear, give it a shotgun, or go mano a mano. If you're hunting deer, head out with a bow and arrow but give the animal a shiv or summat.