Why I hate SvC: Chaos

[Damocles]

Keep in mind, this comes from a slightly skewed minor Capcom fanboy perspective.

-crappy hit detection
Nothing more to say. Watch in awe as your strong kicks and sweeps
give your opponent a nice breeze.

-cheapest character I've ever faced - Goenitz
I shit you not...I did not attack, waited, and counted as he fired off twelve of his tornado projectiles in a row. He did not advance, he did nothing for that entire round except throw projectiles. In perspective, I think I enjoy fighting Gill from SF3, or the final boss of Tech Romancer to this guy, or, dare I say it, Gold Cliff from GGX2. That's how bad it is.

-the control system
C'mon, I realize Capcom didn't do the best job of translating the SNK characters for CvS1 & 2, but damn, the Capcom characters here are damn near unplayable. At least have a friggin option to choose the control style.

-Two, count 'em TWO punches and two kicks, light and hard
That's right, no medium attacks. Now, this ain't a big thing for the SNK characters, I admit, but they're slightly tilting the scales here.

-mixing of fighting styles
Ties in with the four-button system. After playing this game, I'm now against the whole concept of the Vs. series. Characters retain none of their purity, playing like a mix of a half-dozen different games. Please Mr. 2D fighting game maker, keep your systems to yourself.

-ancient AI
Closely related to my Goenitz complaint, there's a fun little thing in this game that SNK forgot to include. AI. Anyone else notice that in earlier fighting games, namely SF2 (though it popped up as late as SFA3) that certain characters, for instance Ken, will do sets of moves for no particular reason, such as pulling off a LP dragon punch, then a MP DP, then a HP DP in quick succession? Well, that's still here. 10 years after it should have been corrected. We're not talking sets of moves that react to an opponent. Nope, we're talking completely useless moves, perhaps designed as anticipatory, but failing miserably.

And the most important:

-the bastardization of Vega
Holy hell, he plays like the Vega from SF:CE, or worse, his appearance in Street Fighter: The Movie. Also note, since there's no medium punch readily available, there goes his playing style.

Good things to say? Well....uhh....it's pretty.....and there's a good amount of characters, though why some of them are in here don't make much sense (I'm looking at you, Hugo). It's also a nice change of pace from the combo frenzy that the newer Vs. series games tend to be.....check that.....it WOULD be if it was fixed.

But...that's just my opinion, so....*shrug*

[iatneH]

Why I hate this game:

I hate fighting games in general (except Guilty Gear)

[Cugel]

I used to love fighting games when I had opponents at the local arcade, but it's hard to get to an arcade (Chinatown Fair in NYC) and I don't have the time.

If you want to see some amazing players, check out Shoryuken.com. Fighting games like shmups are true tests of skill.

So, it's shmups for me. It's great for solitaire players like me. No one I know likes shmups

[Neon]

Bought this for Xbox brand new for $40, and what a waste it was. Had to play some 3rd strike to wash out the taste.

I sold it to gamestop for under $20 I think, when I was in need of quick cash once.

[MovingTarget]

I think fighting games must be one of the hardest of game genres to master, as you need to have a database of knowledge and be able to access it instantly. Which is not so bad if your a pc in disguise as a human(aka Japanese)












ps. No disrespect to any Japanese, I think that was quite a compliment hehe

[mannerbot]

It goes way beyond that. The top players know all of the strategy, frame data, combos, etc., so the difference maker is psychology. It really helps your fighting game skills when you're psychic like Daigo.

[MovingTarget]

Thats what I love about fighting games, when I beat people by figuring out their thoughts

[Ganelon]

Yeah, SVC is pretty messed up.

However, I completely disagree about Goenitz being a cheap character. Goenitz's most effective strategy is just to keep hurling the winds. It can easily be punished by Ken and Shiki's teleports, meaning he's critically weak against them. And it's not that hard to advance anyway since you can inch up on him.

On the other hand, Gill can do his jumping elbow to juggle you 3 times in the air (well, not CPU Gill) for almost half your lifebar in damage. And in SVC, Geese has a simple infinite, Zero has a fairly simply infinite, Orochi Iori is absolutely unstoppable, and if people are playing bosses, Shin Akuma can knock off 100% of your life while Red Arremer can get you in permanent lockdown with all the stupid specials he has that put you into blockstun followed by all his unblockables.

I also don't see how Goenitz's zoning is any worse than Guile's Sonic Boom or Ryu's Hadoken traps. In fact, since it's an entire vertical screen, you can't even trick an opponent into jumping in and even if you could, Goenitz doesn't have a great anti-air (since his high arm flashing move isn't high priority). While the Goenitz player has to guess where to do the attack, you can just GCS a wind when you're close enough and punish his ass. So no, I don't find Goenitz a cheap character in SVC, only perhaps annoying to those who hate being the victim of spammed moves.

[Damocles]

Bought this for Xbox brand new for $40, and what a waste it was. Had to play some 3rd strike to wash out the taste.

I sold it to gamestop for under $20 I think, when I was in need of quick cash once.

I bought mine from EB.............you know how easy it is to make those little 2" disks that seal some of their games to make sure they're new? *whistles* Not that I'm condoning that or anything.......

[Damocles]

Yeah, SVC is pretty messed up.

However, I completely disagree about Goenitz being a cheap character. Goenitz's most effective strategy is just to keep hurling the winds. It can easily be punished by Ken and Shiki's teleports, meaning he's critically weak against them. And it's not that hard to advance anyway since you can inch up on him.

On the other hand, Gill can do his jumping elbow to juggle you 3 times in the air (well, not CPU Gill) for almost half your lifebar in damage. And in SVC, Geese has a simple infinite, Zero has a fairly simply infinite, Orochi Iori is absolutely unstoppable, and if people are playing bosses, Shin Akuma can knock off 100% of your life while Red Arremer can get you in permanent lockdown with all the stupid specials he has that put you into blockstun followed by all his unblockables.

I also don't see how Goenitz's zoning is any worse than Guile's Sonic Boom or Ryu's Hadoken traps. In fact, since it's an entire vertical screen, you can't even trick an opponent into jumping in and even if you could, Goenitz doesn't have a great anti-air (since his high arm flashing move isn't high priority). While the Goenitz player has to guess where to do the attack, you can just GCS a wind when you're close enough and punish his ass. So no, I don't find Goenitz a cheap character in SVC, only perhaps annoying to those who hate being the victim of spammed moves.

Meh. My quarrel isn't the fact that the ability is there, it's the fact that they programmed Goenitz that way. Hell...if a game is designed well, there is a counter to everything the enemy throws at you, as there is in Goenitz's case. It just pissed me off that they stuck him in that loop.

Maybe I should have added that the game just didn't "feel" right. But...then again....I favor Capcom over SNK, so that might just be an inherent thing.

[Ganelon]

Well, almost every fighter has to have a zone character. I don't blame Goenitz's design. It's just pretty sad he doesn't have many other tools to work with unlike Ryu, who can be played without fireball trapping. However, Guile uses the same zoning strategy (except in Alpha 3, where projectiles aren't very effective). Same with Remy in SF3.

And yeah, I heavily prefer Capcom over SNK as well. I actually practice Capcom fighters (or rather, just Street Fighter series) while I've never bothered for SNK.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

How old is this game? I'm sure someone told me it was crap about a year ago.

Fighting games died with Street Fighter Alpha 3. There has been nothing good since.

[jp]

How old is this game? I'm sure someone told me it was crap about a year ago.

Fighting games died with Street Fighter Alpha 3. There has been nothing good since.

Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves



But otherwise, I agree.

[Neon]

Was third strike released after alpha 3?

Anyways, virtua fighter 4...

[Ganelon]

Couldn't stand Alpha 3 myself. And yes, 3S came after A3.

[Damocles]

As for Alpha 3, I have one word..............VEGA!!!!!!!!!

Ahem, excuse me.

[CMoon]

Yeah, there were definitely some great fighters after alpha 3:

Third Strike
Guilty Gear X & X2 (I'm not sure I think they are great, but they are good)
Mark of the Wolves
Last Blade 2

Wasn't King of Fighters Dream match out after alpha 3?

Anyway, yeah, SvC is simply a BAD game. I like Fighters Evolution more than SvC. I mean, Evolution is clearly a couple programmers bored, just coming up with a new fighter just to be retarded, and it is STILL better than SvC.

[Ganelon]

I think Capcom Fighting Evolution is a great game personally; not original but put together well. Worst thing is that many characters don't play at all exactly as they played in their respective games.

[BulletMagnet]

-cheapest character I've ever faced - Goenitz

He's an SNK boss, what the heck were you expecting?

[Specineff]

I think KOF 98 Rugal was cheaper.

[Damocles]

I think KOF 98 Rugal was cheaper.

Kinda related, but not really - Devil Rugal from CvS2

Not so much cheap but definately powerful. Though it gets much easier with a Ratio 4 Vega. Sorry about the Vega ranting.......he's my hombre....

[BulletMagnet]

Heh, nitpicking about which SNK boss is "really" cheap is kinda splitting hairs as far as I'm concerned, heh heh. Though my vote on that one might go to Igniz...and you hafta fight Zero right before him too. Argh.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, 98 Omega Rugal is still the hardest for me. Orochi and Mukai are jokes. Never had much trouble with Goenitz and Krizalid.

[pixeljunkie]

SVC is not as bad as everyone says. The xbox version is a little weird feeling though, and the online sucks. The neo version is much better. As a 2-player game played by anyone halfway decent it falls apart fast. As a single player game, its fun as hell. Lots of hidden bits, great pre-fight dialogue, good music, and cool to see SNK sprites o capcom characters. I like the 4 button setup, but I'm a neo geo fanboy. My fave fighting game of all time is SFA3, so its not like I'm completely biased.