Lords of Thunder... Virtual Console... BEST MUSIC EVER

[dial911]

Get it now... PC Engine version on Virtual Console... GO!!!

Original PC Engine Promo Vid:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=t5EamsCbLos

Gameplay Vids:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Otz8kIUqN38
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z6mMpnX9xwY

[Ceph]

Wow, a game you could play on PC Engine for 15 years is now emulated by a new console. I wonder if I'll be able to withstand the tempation that is Wii much longer...

[dial911]

Wow, a game you could play on PC Engine for 15 years is now emulated by a new console. I wonder if I'll be able to withstand the tempation that is Wii much longer...

Don't be a d-bag... TurboGrafx-16 Duos go for $300 nowadays... and the game for $50

http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-Grafx-TurboGr ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Turbo-Grafx-16-CD-D ... dZViewItem

That's more than the Wii plus the $8 it costs to download this faithful port.

[No_not_like_Quake]

I read somewhere that the sound was fucked... sound effects much louder than music in the emulated version. Is this true, or am I thinking of GoT?

[henry dark]

I read somewhere that the sound was fucked... sound effects much louder than music in the emulated version. Is this true, or am I thinking of GoT?

Haven't played the wii port of LoT, but that's true of the GoT port.

A wonderful soundtrack thats far too quiet in the port, drowned out by the SFX and rendered totally unlistenable.

How they managed to fuck up such an integral part of the game I'll never know. It's enough for me to say 'don't download it' anyway.

[Ceph]

YARR - BING, then?
(Yet Another Re-Release - Better on Its Native Game-system)

PS.
Boxed PC Engine Duo R: 225 USD shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-Engine-DUO-R-Con ... 0021420426

Being able to play a game with correct resolution and sound and put real games on your shelf when you don't play them: Priceless.

[Mortificator]

TurboGrafx-16 Duos go for $300 nowadays... and the game for $50

Damn, you're right. If only there was some way to imitate - or, to use another word, emulate - Hudson's console and the game using alternative hardware! In my imagination this would have features far beyond the Wii, like fast-forwarding, the ability to play on a monitor or TV screen, graphical filtering, and controler customization. But who am I kidding? Such a thing could never exist.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Plus the fact that you can load up either original copy of Super CD-Rom2 game disc of Lords of Thunder/Winds of Thunder or Gate of Thunder into your personal music CD player and listen to the cool "redbook" encoded BGM tunes as it was meant to be -- can't get any better than that there, folks..... ^_~

For Ceph,

Thanks for that eBay auction listing about a Duo-R console for $155.00 USD starting price -- damn cheap price. I wonder who gonna take this PCE Duo-R console babe home? (Hey, it's close to matching the price of a brand new boxed Wii console but I'd go with the original gaming hardware that the LoT/WoT shmups were released on -- don't settle for the Sega CD version of LoT either & stick with the PCE or the USA TTI versions as they're the only ones to play!) ^_~

Play the above listed PCE shmup titles with a solid PCE arcade stick (such as the hefty Hori Fighting Stick PC joystick controller) and watch your scores get higher & higher easily...

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[dial911]

YARR - BING, then?
(Yet Another Re-Release - Better on Its Native Game-system)

PS.
Boxed PC Engine Duo R: 225 USD shipped.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-Engine-DUO-R-Con ... 0021420426

Being able to play a game with correct resolution and sound and put real games on your shelf when you don't play them: Priceless.

Of course it is better on it's original system... and I'm not saying it's a replacement so stop trying to argue just to argue... it's not a replacement... it is, however, a very good alternative for all those people who already have Wii's and don't want to spend $300+ tracking down the original equipment just for this game.

There is a reason why Ninty has sold $33 million+ in VC Titles (http://kotaku.com/gaming/virtual-consol ... 327725.php) and I guarantee you it's not because the emulation sucks ass.

Stop being so hard headed.

[ccovell]

Let's missteer this thread in a more cheerful direction. What's your favourite music in the game?

Mine's the tune in the forest stage, followed by the snow/ice stage.

[Mortificator]

Desert stage. And the title screen music is one of only two tracks in a game that makes me want to stand up and wave a cigarette lighter.

[szycag]

they didn't put the shopkeeper's voice back in by chance, did they? absolutely love this game, have it for sega cd- think i'll have to get this version too though, the price is right...

[BrianC]

TurboGrafx-16 Duos go for $300 nowadays... and the game for $50

Damn, you're right. If only there was some way to imitate - or, to use another word, emulate - Hudson's console and the game using alternative hardware! In my imagination this would have features far beyond the Wii, like fast-forwarding, the ability to play on a monitor or TV screen, graphical filtering, and controler customization. But who am I kidding? Such a thing could never exist.

The fact is that someone still owns the rights to the game, though. For me, it has nothing to do with liking the company. I feel taking something without the owner's permission is stealing. However, the emulators aren't illegal and you can play the real discs on the PC emulators, so it's a valid alternative.

The TG-16 games have filtering, but I heard many of the others do not. No options like emulators, but most of those don't let you dump your own games to them and require you to download from shady sites if you want to use official games with them.

I heard a claim in another topic that buying the games would be cheaper or the same price as downloading the PAL Wii versions, but it didn't take in account that in order to play the games the ideal way on the real systems in Europe, you need to either mod or import, which is more expensive than the games on the VC. A least with the MD, some early games have the 60 Hz one built in and modding will allow you to play import 60 Hz games. EU needs a special converter plug in order for US systems to be used too.

[dial911]

Some nice footage of the VC version of the game just popped up here:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30494.html

[Mortificator]

I feel taking something without the owner's permission is stealing.

I agree. But that has nothing to do with emulators. Nothing is being taken, it's being copied. As with the useage of "piracy" for actions unrelated to seizing a marine vessel, companies use stealing to elicit a negative emotional response that no one would feel if they told the truth.

Nintendo: That guy infringed upon my intellectual properties!
People: So what?
Nintendo: Uh... I mean, that guy's a thief and he robbed me!
People: Get him!

Ignoring that there's no law enforcement response, while if you shoplift even a stick of gum and you're probably going downtown.

And I don't like how after paying often overworked and underpaid dev team a one-time fee, a Nintendo and others get to farm out their ideas for eternity. I can't even say they slap a new label on the same old shit, because with the VC all they have to do is dump the ROM, which of course can only be used on their proprietary emulator that doesn't offer half of what the third-party apps do. It's a productive buisness move, like using sweatshop labor or bypassing environmental regulations are. But I have no obligation to support it.

I know, there's really no point to me posting this. I don't care what you do with your money, it doesn't affect me. But thread after thread of "OMG this ROM's finally on the VC/XBLA and I can buy it instead of using it in a better emulator for free" gets pretty old.

[BrianC]

I feel taking something without the owner's permission is stealing.

I agree. But that has nothing to do with emulators. Nothing is being taken, it's being copied. As with the useage of "piracy" for actions unrelated to seizing a marine vessel, companies use stealing to elicit a negative emotional response that no one would feel if they told the truth


Nintendo: That guy infringed upon my intellectual properties!
People: So what?
Nintendo: Uh... I mean, that guy's a thief and he robbed me!
People: Get him!

Ignoring that there's no law enforcement response, while if you shoplift even a stick of gum and you're probably going downtown.

I didn't know my wording was that important. I meant using the game without permission is unethical. I feel it doesn't matter if there is a hard copy or not.

And I don't like how after paying often overworked and underpaid dev team a one-time fee, a Nintendo and others get to farm out their ideas for eternity. I can't even say they slap a new label on the same old shit, because with the VC all they have to do is dump the ROM, which of course can only be used on their proprietary emulator that doesn't offer half of what the third-party apps do. It's a productive buisness move, like using sweatshop labor or bypassing environmental regulations are. But I have no obligation to support it.

I know, there's really no point to me posting this. I don't care what you do with your money, it doesn't affect me. But thread after thread of "OMG this ROM's finally on the VC/XBLA and I can buy it instead of using it in a better emulator for free" gets pretty old.

The fact is that Nintendo owns the rights to the game and can do what they want with it, no matter how unfair it is. Also, while the emulations don't have all the same options as the PC, they still have all the options from the original games. From what I read, they don't sound like shoddy or rushed emulations, aside from the PAL versions, but I can't confirm this. Aside from TG-16 and maybe NeoGeo, don't most of the game support 240p and progressive scan?

As far as the "better emulator for free thing", do the Wii or 360 have a better emulator than the Wii VC or Xbox 360 for the games or is this only a comparison with a PC emulator? Hardware is different, so the Wii might not support some games the PC does with the same emulator. Also, the emulation for non-Nintendo systems on the Wii was designed by third party developers like M2.

Some emulators have separate sound files than the ones used to get the games working at full speed. This is what results in inaccurate sound.

Myself, I prefer to play games on the actual systems. Most of the time I go for the cheaper ones, but I get expensive ones too. From experience, I also found trying games out to take time away from playing the games I have on my systems rather than helping me make a choice on a game.

[Specineff]

Magic Engine is only like 15 or 20 bucks and it plays most games flawlessly.

I'm with Ceph on this one. Paying for a heavily DRM'ed image (And you bet your ass the tracks are compressed) when you can get the real thing in all its glory is just plain asinine.

[The Coop]

To the lovely folks who are currently having issues about Duo prices and such...

-=Magic Engine=-

A damn near spot on TG-16/PCE emulator that can play the actual CD games on your PC. Pop the game in your CD-Rom, and rock on. Costs $19 US, and you get free updates for as long as it's being developed. Once you have it, you can hop on eBay or wherever and buy all the PCE/TG-16 CD games your heart desires

[Mortificator]

Is it safe to post now, Brian? I had a response to your first reply ready, but then you edited it so I had to edit mine, and then you deleted it so I heated up some leftovers and read some other stuff, and now I see you've got This Year's Girl out strutting her stuff.

I meant using the game without permission is unethical. I feel it doesn't matter if there is a hard copy or not.

You're certainly free to feel that way, but can I ask how you feel about a few other things? There's a nice public library within walking distance of where I live. When I go there and read a book/magazine/newspaper/whatever without compensating the publisher, is it wrong?

The majority of games I buy are second-hand. I'm old enough and have enough to keep me occupied that I have no trouble waiting a while before getting the game I want, at a much lower price. However, just like with emulators I'm playing the game without paying the copyright owners. Should this be prohibited?

I look at the games sitting out and see that many of them aren't mine. A lot are borrowed from my brother or friends, and they have a lot of games I bought too. Is this OK? Multiple people are playing a game one person bought, as it is when someone shares the ROM from their game over the Internet.

The fact is that Nintendo owns the rights to the game and can do what they want with it, no matter how unfair it is.

Yep, that's a fact. They can do that. And I can completely circumvent their practices and bitch about them when given half a chance. That's also a fact.

Also, while the emulations don't have all the same options as the PC, they still have all the options from the original games. From what I read, they don't sound like shoddy or rushed emulations, aside from the PAL versions, but I can't confirm this. Aside from TG-16 and maybe NeoGeo, don't most of the game support 240p and progressive scan?

As far as the "better emulator for free thing", do the Wii or 360 have a better emulator than the Wii VC or Xbox 360 for the games or is this only a comparison with a PC emulator? Hardware is different, so the Wii might not support some games the PC does with the same emulator. Also, the emulation for non-Nintendo systems on the Wii was designed by third party developers like M2.

I only use PC-based emulators myself, though if you have a card with TV-out you can play from the couch, just like the originals. I hadn't thought about the structure of the consoles interfering with emulation, but is there really any evidence that's the case? Considering that you can go online and get more feature-laden emulators literally made by people in their spare time, Nintendo and Microsoft's efforts smack of cash-in. But of course, the ROMs they put up for sale can only be used in their player.

From experience, I also found trying games out to take time away from playing the games I have on my systems rather than helping me make a choice on a game.

Hey, I almost forgot that you've mentioned using emulators in the past! Now that you think that's unethical, do you intend to pay damages to the companies you've oh-so-heinously harmed?

[BrianC]

You're certainly free to feel that way, but can I ask how you feel about a few other things? There's a nice public library within walking distance of where I live. When I go there and read a book/magazine/newspaper/whatever without compensating the publisher, is it wrong?

The majority of games I buy are second-hand. I'm old enough and have enough to keep me occupied that I have no trouble waiting a while before getting the game I want, at a much lower price. However, just like with emulators I'm playing the game without paying the copyright owners. Should this be prohibited?

I look at the games sitting out and see that many of them aren't mine. A lot are borrowed from my brother or friends, and they have a lot of games I bought too. Is this OK? Multiple people are playing a game one person bought, as it is when someone shares the ROM from their game over the Internet.

The ROMs on the internet are illegally copied. It's different from a library, borrowing with permission, or buying a used game that someone owned and gave permission for someone else to sell.

The fact is that Nintendo owns the rights to the game and can do what they want with it, no matter how unfair it is.

Yep, that's a fact. They can do that. And I can completely circumvent their practices and bitch about them when given half a chance. That's also a fact.

Their practices were compared to unethical practices, despite how they are using their own roms and may not be shoddily emulating like you said. My questions about 240p and progressive scan were skipped over. What's with the flippant replies? I'm not telling you to stop, I'm just telling you my opinions.

From experience, I also found trying games out to take time away from playing the games I have on my systems rather than helping me make a choice on a game.

Hey, I almost forgot that you've mentioned using emulators in the past! Now that you think that's unethical, do you intend to pay damages to the companies you've oh-so-heinously harmed?

I was not condoning the use of them, or telling you not to use them. I was stating my opinion. I said it's not about the companies. It's about what I feel is right or wrong. I intend to buy some of the games I tried. I know Nintendo or whoever won't be getting a cent, but I like playing games on the real systems and supporting companies that sell old games that don't have scratches all over them.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, seriously. Use emus as much as you want to. But boasting about using them is just silly. Imagine how much better these VC games would be selling if emulation didn't exist.

VC is also one of the purest ways to help out the parent companies, infinitely more so than buying a PCE game, where the original developer/publisher won't see a dime.

[elvis]

I bought it on Wii.

Why? Simple: I've been standing on my soapbox for damn near close to 3 years now, complaining that legal, commercial emulation has been possible for years, and that corporates are a bunch of no hopers if the best they can do is hurl insults at retro gamers from afar, calling us "thieves" and "pirates" when we download something that isn't for sale.

Search my posts in this forum and you'll find countless times where I've ranted about second (and third, and forth, and...) hand sales being bullshit - how they don't support the industry, and that the concept of legality when it comes to games that aren't in production is rubbish. Basically put, if no-one is willing to sell it to me, then stop calling me a thief when I download it. (And if another person tells me "But it's the law", I'll break their fingers. The people make the laws, and the people need to question the laws when the laws are outdated and don't apply any more - something that is happening right now in this age of copyright and licensing concerning zero-cost digital distribution).

On the flipside, I totally acknowledge gaming is a "want" and not a "need". While I still stand by all of the above, there is a part of me that still feels some guilt for downloading games without paying the copyright holder for their (sometimes) brilliant work. Short of writing a personal cheque and mailing it to the original developers, there's not much available to me in the way of satisfactory payment options.

Wii VC is my putting my money where my mouth is. Thus far I have bought both Blazing Lazers (ie: Gunhed) and Lords of Thunder. Both games utterly rock, and the AU$9 I paid for them is honestly peanuts. Even if I had paid for the console (it's a loaner from a friend who went overseas for a few years), I don't consider it a waste, as I actually use the console for a great deal of other games (GC and Wii stuff, particularly arcade ports like Ghost Squad, Resident Evil 4 and UC, Zelda: TP, and the soon to be released House of the Dead collection).

I've played both Blazing Lazers and Gunhed on emulators on my PC. I have *ALL* of the PC Engine and PCE-CDROM games downloaded from my favourite torrent site. I do this because I like to play games, and the games are fun (and I never had a chance to buy the originals as a child, mostly because the PC Engine had a piss-poor showing in Australia).

BUT... should the games become commercially available, I buy them. As I said, this is me putting my money where my mouth is. Apple saw huge success in iTunes with a simple philosophy: make paying for something easier than stealing it. Wii VC does the same, and honestly I've been ranting about this for so long - and now that it's finally happened, I'm backing them with cash.

Bravo to any developer/publisher who re-releases old games for a reasonable price to the mass market. This has been 3 years in the waiting, and I'm pleased as punch that it's here. Sure, I can go buy a PC Engine off eBay for less than a Wii, but I couldn't give a shit about the archaic concept of "licensing" when it comes to second-hand sales that don't financially benefit the copyright holder. Paying a few bucks on Wii VC and knowing that Hudson see at least a partial cut makes me feel good.

So I've bought 2 games in 2 weeks. I'm going to keep it up and keep buying games. Maybe it will make other developers open their eyes and do the same.

Treasure are putting Ikaruga on XBLA. I have a "pirate" copy of Ikaruga on Dreamcast, again because I have no interest in lining the wallet of some wanker collector on eBay and knowing full well that Treasure won't see a cent of the sale. When the day comes that I buy a 360 (and that day *will* come, once the console is at a reasonable price), I'll pay for Ikaruga, knowing that Treasure get a cut.

And who knows... maybe we'll see more shmup companies pushing console and arcade releases to the various download services.

ON TOPIC:

Lords of Thunder rocks, in all senses of the word. I've always preferred vertical shooters, but this is one of the few horizontals that really floats my boat. Asides from the cool music, even on mute the gameplay still holds it's own. It's that perfect amount of tough where you get a little bit further on every try, but won't be finishing it in a few days.

No, it doesn't do 240p, and yes interlace modes suck balls. But it's a minor inconvenience for the satisfaction of buying a title and knowing the money goes to the right people.

All flames can be sent to /dev/null.

[MathU]

So it doesn't have that sound effect vs. music volume trouble that Gate of Thunder has on the Wii?

[elvis]

So it doesn't have that sound effect vs. music volume trouble that Gate of Thunder has on the Wii?

The balance sounds fine to me. I play through a stereo TV (nothing flash) and I didn't notice one overpower the other.

[Necronom]

Imagine how much better these VC games would be selling if emulation didn't exist.

VC would simply NOT exist without emulation because that's what started the whole "retro mania". Publishers saw that thousands of people are downloading and playing their old games so they started to capitalize on this evident demand.
However, if less people would pay for heavily drm'ed and regioncoded barebone roms on VC then maybe Nintendo would finally get their shit together and release some original titles. Imagine that.

[Ceph]

However, if less people would pay for heavily drm'ed and regioncoded barebone roms on VC then maybe Nintendo would finally get their shit together and release some original titles. Imagine that.

Yes. Besides, selling 15-20 year-old ROMs for the price Nintendo does is a bit obscene. They should be sold for CENTS.

[CMoon]

VC is also one of the purest ways to help out the parent companies, infinitely more so than buying a PCE game, where the original developer/publisher won't see a dime.

I'm in complete agreement with this. It isn't worth starting a war over this (the war's been brewing for some time anyway), but for me, the VC purchases feel legitimate (versus downloading roms) while also having convenience and economy on their side.

For me this has a bizarre parallel to music--I still very much buy albums and worry that if I ever get into downloading music, they will just disappear into my collection without a spine. Clearly those of you with uber video game collections must feel the same problem--but I don't. I don't have thousands of games and I don't need 10 different consoles out and ready to be played at any moment (the five I have out now is excessive as it is.)

Either way, all people are really debating are their personal tastes, and that seems pretty silly to me.

I typically side with Ceph but in this case I think he was wrong in his original post. The thread was started to say 'hey look, LoT is now on the VC.' The only real response to that is either going to be comparison to the port, perhaps celebration, or maybe talking about how great the game is.

If every time there's a new VC title you guys are going to take a giant dump on downloading, be ready for the shit storm on this forum every time you download an album. How you decide to play games or listen to music is now open to public criticism!

[Ceph]

I agree that it's nice that you can legally buy ROMs this way, it's a step in the right direction. What is not nice (read: unacceptable) is the DRM and the price.

It should also be taken into consideration that the people who originally created the games won't get ANY of that money; profits are only made by Nintendo and the companies who currently own the copyrights, which in many cases probably aren't even the companies who originally developed the games.

@dial911
Would you mind embedding the links in your above post? They are too long for my screen resolution.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 911#326911

[antron]

I agree that it's nice that you can legally buy ROMs this way, it's a step in the right direction. What is not nice (read: unacceptable) is the DRM and the price.

the price should be set at whatever makes them the most money.

[dial911]

I agree that it's nice that you can legally buy ROMs this way, it's a step in the right direction. What is not nice (read: unacceptable) is the DRM and the price.

With $33 million in VC sales... pricing is not an issue to most people.
http://tinylink.com/?sdeNbSQVRu

@dial911
Would you mind embedding the links in your above post? They are too long for my screen resolution.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 911#326911

http://tinylink.com/?gC1Qnd6d4a
http://tinylink.com/?sN7Iozhz7o