Final Fantasy Origins vs. FFI & FFII: Dawn of Souls

[FatCobra]

I've always been a big fan of the first Final Fantasy for the NES, so when I heard there was a remake on the Gameboy Advance, I sprung for it. There was only one problem with the Gameboy verison however: IT WAS TOO DAMN EASY!!! Every enemy I fought died in one hit, even from a Black Mage's stabbing. This wasn't the Final Fantasy I knew and loved from the NES. It was a watered-down mass market cash in. Blegh. What a waste of $30. FFII was OK, but wasn't the reason I bought that worthless cartridge.

Anyway, I read that the PS1 verison was alot better in terms of difficulty; it was more faithful to the original. So I find it at Gamestop for $13 used, but the disc is in pristine condition (wish people took care of their other games so well, I'm trying to find the first Gran Turismo that isn't so fucked up from scratches). So I head home and pop it into my PS2, and start playing......

This verison didn't disappoint. The monsters were giving my characters a hard time and my guys would hack thin air if one enemy died before everyone landed their hits. Just like in the original. Being able to save 15 games as opposed to just 3 on the GBA was a nice perk too.

FFII also has the original difficulty as well. I actually kinda liked the GBA one better, but FFI is the main reason I bought these packs.

My GBA verison is long gone now, traded in for a copy of Unreal Tournament 2004. I'm getting sick of the lack of innovation in the videogame world (no, the Nintendo Revolution is not innovation, it just has a weird controller) and you can do things other than play games on a computer.

For a more faithful Final Fantasy I experience, get the PS1 verison, and avoid the GBA one. I'm actually pretty sick of my SP, anyone want a banged-up Black SP? I'm willing to sell it cheap and thrown in a copy of the Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap for free as well.

[PaCrappa]

I'm getting sick of the lack of innovation in the videogame world

So you buy Unreal Tournament...

Good call.

Pa

[FatCobra]

I'm getting sick of the lack of innovation in the videogame world

So you buy Unreal Tournament...

Good call.

Pa

LOL, I know Epic pulled a Madden with this one, but at least it's better than Madden. Besides, I like online FPS and making my own maps. I'm just saying there's a serious lack of innovation anywhere and I'm just plain sick of updating and buying new machines every five years. Yes, I know building a computer is expensive as hell, but I can do more with it than just play videogames. The computer lab at my apartment complex sucks ass, so there's enough motive there.

Now that I think of it, maybe "lack of innovation" isn't the right phrase. I think it's more like "the magic is gone." I really can't remember the last time a game totally blew me away and had me coming back to it. I always want to go back to the classics it seems. At least building a computer will allow me to play those classic games again.

[PaCrappa]

And there's no quicker way to suck the magic right out of truly magical games than by emulating them. It is so much more satisfying finding a real NES LoLo 3 for $5 at a flea market after wanting it for 15 years than it is to hide out in the house and download it for free. Part of the magic is in the appreciation. There's nothing to appreciate about a some shapeless, formless 75K file that you downloaded without even thinking about it.

But hey, don't mind me. My mother is in town so I'm in a mood to rant 'n stuff.

Pa

PS: I'm done with this five year plan bullshit. It's consumerism and nothing more. We are being sold technology, not fun. Every game that sells may as well be a tech demo. Because that's all that people talk about. Graphics. Modern graphical technology is not doing a goddamn thing for me. Sure there are PS2, GCN and XB games that I like but all three systems' libraries of good games combined are absolutely DWARFED out of sight by the SNES's library. So yeah anyway, I'm riding out this 128 bit thing and then I'm done. There is so much left to explore for the SNES and PS1 that I could spend the rest of my life searching for and playing the games that interest me on only those two systems and die a happy man. I don't need to make the rich richer whilst I only get poorer simply because I like videogames.

[FatCobra]

You got a point with the emulation sucking the magic out thing. It is way more satisifying to play the actual thing than it is to emulate it. But MAME is what got me into shmups in the first place and discovering this site. It's a double edged sword I guess. I get to play games for free, even ones I may have never heard of or even make the swim to the states, but it's more satisifying to own the actual cartridge/CD than it is to download some file.

I'm done with this new techonology shit too. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo can take their PS3, Xbox2, and Revolution and shove it up their collective, money-grubbing asses. The spirit of videogaming as I knew it died when the N64 and PS1 came out.

I know computer hardware gets obsolite and needs money to upgrade every five years, but it's still going into a machine that can do more than just play games and not gather dust like last month's flavor console.

How can I go back to a classic like FF1 but not even touch FF10? Why do I get more fun out of Gran Turismo 1 than Gran Turismo 4? First of their series? Better game design due to primitive graphics technology? First of their kind? Fun maybe? Who knows...

[Nemo]

And there's no quicker way to suck the magic right out of truly magical games than by emulating them. It is so much more satisfying finding a real NES LoLo 3 for $5 at a flea market after wanting it for 15 years than it is to hide out in the house and download it for free. Part of the magic is in the appreciation. There's nothing to appreciate about a some shapeless, formless 75K file that you downloaded without even thinking about it.

But hey, don't mind me. My mother is in town so I'm in a mood to rant 'n stuff.

Pa

PS: I'm done with this five year plan bullshit. It's consumerism and nothing more. We are being sold technology, not fun. Every game that sells may as well be a tech demo. Because that's all that people talk about. Graphics. Modern graphical technology is not doing a goddamn thing for me. Sure there are PS2, GCN and XB games that I like but all three systems' libraries of good games combined are absolutely DWARFED out of sight by the SNES's library. So yeah anyway, I'm riding out this 128 bit thing and then I'm done. There is so much left to explore for the SNES and PS1 that I could spend the rest of my life searching for and playing the games that interest me on only those two systems and die a happy man. I don't need to make the rich richer whilst I only get poorer simply because I like videogames.

Great post. I too tire whenever an old game is mentioned on a message board all people talk about is downloading the rom. So many idiots these days want something for nothing, and it's even worse when they try to justify their stealing of games. Emulation is for losers, and when you use it you're only cheating yourself. And for the most part games do suck these days, but IMO 3D pretty much blows. Between the Sega CD, Genesis, Turbo Grafx-16, Duo, and Snes that's heaven to me and all I really need in life (plus some manic shooters).

[FatCobra]

I miss my NES and SNES...

Fortunatly though, they are at my parent's house and they are bringing them down here when my family moves down here to Tampa, where I live.

[Andi]

This wasn't the Final Fantasy I knew and loved from the NES. It was a watered-down mass market cash in.

While, I agree that it was to easy. I wouldn't call it a "cash in". If it was a cash in, it wouldn't be a remake with new material, it would be a direct port.

As for complaining about lack of innovation, that seems pretty silly on a board about shooters. A genre that basically hasn't changed in 20 years (no, more bullets doesn't count as innovation).

[Ganelon]

On emulation: Meh, I agree with the sentiment although in most cases, the creators aren't being helped one bit. I prefer real games for perfect 100% play but not everyone can afford all those games or even easily find them (after all, how many obscure arcade PCBs can somebody find?) and I'm not above using them myself when they're old.

Of course, I do hate those dumbasses who feel a need to boast about amassing a large ROM collection. Way to go, you killed off a ROM site's bandwidth... I feel like bashing their faces in.

Anyway, the only times emulation actually hurts the industry is:
1. Recent: It's a recent game that's still making money for the company (e.g. KOF2003).
2. Re-release: It's an older game that's just been/will be re-released (e.g. Mega Man 1-6).
3. Similarity: Playing the game would prevent that person from buying a similar game simply because the emulated game is enough (e.g. Brave Blade fun enough that a person might not want to get Trizeal; not a great example but you should get my point).

As for FFI&II, I do prefer the much better music in the FFO version. However, overall, I'd probably go for the extras in the GBA version. I didn't care much for the accurate difficulty and the cinemas. I even preferred turning the "hitting air" thing off since that was just a result of poorly designed combat rather than a difficulty feature IMO.

Of course, I don't really see why you're complaining about the game being a "mass market cash in." If that's truly the case, you may as well dust off the NES and play the original games themselves, which are as authentic as you can get without stupid stuff like smoother controls, remade graphics, and much enhanced music. I mean, how could they butcher the game by changing the classic, gritty NES tunes to symphonic sounding masterpieces that everybody could enjoy?

[Nemo]

On emulation: Meh, I agree with the sentiment although in most cases, the creators aren't being helped one bit. I prefer real games for perfect 100% play but not everyone can afford all those games or even easily find them (after all, how many obscure arcade PCBs can somebody find?) and I'm not above using them myself when they're old.

Of course, I do hate those dumbasses who feel a need to boast about amassing a large ROM collection. Way to go, you killed off a ROM site's bandwidth... I feel like bashing their faces in.

Anyway, the only times emulation actually hurts the industry is:
1. Recent: It's a recent game that's still making money for the company (e.g. KOF2003).
2. Re-release: It's an older game that's just been/will be re-released (e.g. Mega Man 1-6).
3. Similarity: Playing the game would prevent that person from buying a similar game simply because the emulated game is enough (e.g. Brave Blade fun enough that a person might not want to get Trizeal; not a great example but you should get my point).

Honestly, I could care less if it doesn't hurt game companies, what happened to having respect and integrity? Also, what law states that everyone has the right to play any and every game they want simply because they have access to the internet? If you can't afford or find a game, simply don't play it until you can, and if you never can, then oh well, life goes on like it did before emulation existed. Wow, what a far-out concept.

[Ganelon]

Integrity I can understand (although obviously not everyone thinks of copyright as lawfully as you do) but respect for who? A defunct developer, a company that no longer makes games?

I was just saying I don't mind emulation since without fans, there'd be nobody to talk about with certain rare games and that the traditional "you're hurting the developer" argument is in many cases nonsense. Feel whatever you want; it'll be a fat chance you'll convince any ROM fan though.

Anyway, without emulation, piracy will still always be there except now it'll be profiting people who ripped the games.

[CMoon]

I'm willing to sell it cheap and thrown in a copy of the Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap for free as well.

You know, there is a much more interesting thread going on here, but only wanted to comment on you throwing out 'minish cap'...I realize it is probably 'more of the same', but I thought it was a very well done 'more of the same' and I appreciated that.

RE: 5 year plan. Yeah, I hear this. I really don't feel like the graphics on the systems now are particularly dated. It seems like we are just upgrading to upgrade (just like computers). And with talk of the new systems not being backwards compatable, what's the point. I'm still playing the hell out of my ps1 games. If the PS3 can't play them, what's the point?

[Ganelon]

Actually, until the a game console can produce graphics that look indistinguishable from real life, 3D graphics can always get better. At least the PS2's graphical limitations are painfully obvious when playing Dynasty Warriors 5 for me.

Then again, I wouldn't have minded if the Saturn was the last console since that level of 2D was enough for me.

[benstylus]

I even preferred turning the "hitting air" thing off since that was just a result of poorly designed combat rather than a difficulty feature IMO.

INEFFECTIVE.

Man, how I hated the NES Final Fantasy because of that.

On the other hand, leaving FF behind got me into the classic Gold Box AD&D games on the PC... I still have them all and wouldn't trade those games for anything.

[Andi]

On the other hand, leaving FF behind got me into the classic Gold Box AD&D games on the PC... I still have them all and wouldn't trade those games for anything.

Dude, I love gold box games. RPG's don't really get too much more challenging than that.

[FatCobra]

The whole "INEFFECTIVE" thing in Final Fantasy is what gave it one of it's many charms. Yeah, it's because of poor combat design, but it forces the player to use a little strategy. In later FFs, you can simply hold down the button and the enemies would be dead.

Anyone can recommend some good PC RPGs? Morrowind bores me, but I love stuff like Fallout.

[jp]

And there's no quicker way to suck the magic right out of truly magical games than by emulating them. It is so much more satisfying finding a real NES LoLo 3 for $5 at a flea market

Oh you so did NOT go there.


Lolo = greatest f'ing puzzle games ever.
I love those games so much... so very very much...




At any rate, FFI&II on GBA was definitely hella easier, but they added 4 dungeons that were ridiculously more difficult than the rest of the game.


Of course, I'd rather just play it on the NES all together... so... *shrugs*

[Andi]

The whole "INEFFECTIVE" thing in Final Fantasy is what gave it one of it's many charms. Yeah, it's because of poor combat design, but it forces the player to use a little strategy. In later FFs, you can simply hold down the button and the enemies would be dead.

Anyone can recommend some good PC RPGs? Morrowind bores me, but I love stuff like Fallout.

The Wizardry series is great. Wizardry 7 is the best. It's got a very non-linear plot, lots of customization, and tons of places to explore and quests to do.

Of course, there is Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 as well and old Ultima games are a lot of fun.

[FatCobra]

Ahh, good old Wizardry. What other RPG game lets you create a fairy ninja?

[MovingTarget]

Those games were daft

edit: Baldurs gate was my first rpg and i loved it to bits, then fallout, then baldurs gate II.... loved it to bits... then fallout II etc....

[Andi]

Ahh, good old Wizardry. What other RPG game lets you create a fairy ninja?

Tru dat.

Yeah, I don't get as turned on by console RPG's because I want to have control over what characters I have in my party. In fact, the more character customization the better (the Fallout games gave me a serious stiffy). FF1 let me choose the members of my party, and I enjoyed that, but it isn't as common in console games.

[sethsez]

RE: 5 year plan. Yeah, I hear this. I really don't feel like the graphics on the systems now are particularly dated. It seems like we are just upgrading to upgrade (just like computers). And with talk of the new systems not being backwards compatable, what's the point. I'm still playing the hell out of my ps1 games. If the PS3 can't play them, what's the point?

The point is to get a new system. I'd ask you, if you really only want to play PSOne games, what's the point in buying a new system whether it's backwards compatible or not? Just keep your PSOne and don't throw away your money.

As for upgrades being "just graphics"... I used to think this way. However, graphics can have a huge impact on the effectiveness of a game. Would ICO have worked nearly as well on, say, the Saturn? Would Rez have been as interesting on the PSOne? Horror games rely almost entirely on graphic and sound design, and I can't imagine Doom 3 working nearly as well without its lighting. Half-Life 2 using additional processing power for a physics engine that has direct impact on the game's design. Everything from puzzles to the way the vehicles handle to the gravity gun... it's all reliant on the physics, and the physics would not have been possible on older hardware.

With new hardware comes new possibilities, and not just in graphics. If the new possibilities don't interest you, then by all means, stick with older systems. There are enough good games to fill a few lifetimes of playing already. But it doesn't make sense to say that new systems won't result in new experiences. It just might not result in new experiences that you care about.

[Nemo]

Integrity I can understand (although obviously not everyone thinks of copyright as lawfully as you do) but respect for who? A defunct developer, a company that no longer makes games?

Respect for the games, respect for those who make them, respect for the medium itself.

[PaCrappa]

Integrity I can understand (although obviously not everyone thinks of copyright as lawfully as you do) but respect for who? A defunct developer, a company that no longer makes games?

Respect for the games, respect for those who make them, respect for the medium itself.

Thank you. In 1986, if you got an NES and any NES game under your tree, that meant something serious. That was a big day. Perhaps the biggest of the year. For some, that one changed their life forever. But now that we're "all grown up" and "sensible" these things that we once dreamed of playing are somehow junk? Space hogging plastic trash? Videogamers don't have the time to pursue actual videogames as they were created and meant to be played? Can't put forth the effort it takes to wait to find a real one at a decent price? Have to play 3000 different games today? I don't get it.

I have many games but I do not understand the attraction of being able to own every single game you ever desired in one friggin' day. Are not most of us destined to be old some day? I'm one of the oldest ones here and I fully expect another 50 years of gaming beore I croak over. I think I have the time to both generate the bread it takes to acquire these things and find enough space to keep the ones that actually mean anything to me. Furthermore, when I look at my own library I see about 90% of it being easily acquired on the cheap.

Another issue I have is that I have NEVER seen an emulator that runs the games I want to play perfectly. And by perfect I mean fucking PERFECT. Just like the realness put down on silicone by the developer. Alot of them run very nicely and some even emulate a few games damn near perfectly, but none that I have yet seen are 100%. Maybe if you built a fancy schmancy computer with an emu-specific video card... But why the hell not use that bread to buy a SNES, Genny, NES, Master System, TG16 and PS1 along with five games for each? A person would be well on his/her way to kickass library of coolness. Real coolness. Space isn't that big a deal if you're not trying to impress your nerdy friends with how many games you can display at the same time in your living room/bedroom/parents' basement.

But let's not get me wrong, please. I use emulation extensively. I play SFC, jamma, etc games for about ten minutes apiece and then either add it to the master shopping list or forget I ever saw it. I'd probably have far fewer real life games if I hadn't emulated so many and found that I liked them. So yeah, thanks MAME.

Anyways guys, mom leaves tomorrow and I'm sure I'll chill out then. Just a little edgy.

Pa

[Neon]

Sure there are PS2, GCN and XB games that I like but all three systems' libraries of good games combined are absolutely DWARFED out of sight by the SNES's library.

SNES? Fuck man, we just had this debate on the main forum Street fighter anniversary online on xbox destroys anything that console has to offer. And PS2 is the best damn shmups console money can buy. Has almost everything saturn has (except they're better ports) with the psone library, then has tons of great psikyo/cave stuff for ps2.

Great post. I too tire whenever an old game is mentioned on a message board all people talk about is downloading the rom. So many idiots these days want something for nothing, and it's even worse when they try to justify their stealing of games. Emulation is for losers, and when you use it you're only cheating yourself. And for the most part games do suck these days, but IMO 3D pretty much blows. Between the Sega CD, Genesis, Turbo Grafx-16, Duo, and Snes that's heaven to me and all I really need in life (plus some manic shooters).

Count me in as one of the loser thieves then. I've bought a lot of games that are easy to emulate (megaman anniversary etc.) but when you're living in a dorm emulation's the only way to go. I brought my ps2, saturn, and dreamcast, and I only barely have enough space for 2 of them at any given time. Why should I bring something I can just emulate? The street fighter alpha 3 cab I'm gonna buy this summer will have to stay home, keeping it here would be an impossibility, the psx, saturn, and dreamcast ports (all of which I own, non-pirated) suck, so I'll have to stick with the rom.

[PaCrappa]

Jesus H. I never called anyone a loser or a thief. I think your choice of words there is quite telling in regards to your self image.

Furthermore, the SNES has about a half a dozen good shooters. The meat and potatoes of the SNES library are games from other genres. I would never play SF2 on a 16 bit home console. Nor any home console at all. Jamma. But I don't like that game anyway, so I'm not sure how it's capable of destroying Magical Pop 'n, The Great Battle IV, Holy Umbrella, Do Re Mi Fantasy, Pac In Time, GoGo Ackman 1-3, Super Ninja Kun, Battle Dodgeball 2 or Super Bonk 2. For starters.

When did I disrespect the PS2? It is clearly the king of the "128 bit" era. It beats the shit out of the Saturn in every way, especially with the shooters. The PS1 is tied with the SNES/SFC as my favorite of all time.

So what was your point there? Were we having a console supremacy argument? Did I say that emulation was thievery?

My point was that getting out of the house in real life and going to places like flea markets, independent videogame shops, garage sales, pawn shops, etc, in search of these real life gaming artifacts is alot more rewarding than sitting behind a computer monitor faking it. The day I bought Pop 'n Twinbee for $6 is a much fonder (I hope that's a word) memory than the day I discovered emulation. I still have Pop 'n Twinbee and it means something. I remember where I was, who I was with, exactly how I felt as I noticed it peeking out of all the other SFC schlock and thinking "SHIT, I GOTTA GET HOME AND PLAY THIS MOFO". I think my girlfriend was bitching in my ear about my dogs the first time I downloaded ESPrade.

Pa

[FatCobra]

Nicely put Pacrappa. I will never forget the day I got my NES. It was the Super Mario Bros/Duck Hunt combo. I will also never forget when I got my Super Nintendo with Super Mario World. It was on my 9th Birthday, April 4th 1992, just when the system was consdered "New."

I understand that new techonologies can bring new experiences, but what if developers aren't using that technology to its fullest. What if that $300 console you bought on launch was to simply play more of the same, only with better graphics?

In my eyes, videogaming is not what it used to be anymore. It's all about graphics and sequels and remakes and whatnot. Bah! I say. I want games with substance, games with gameplay and replay. Games that are FUN.

I can play Final Fantasy for the NES, beat it over and over again because its just such a great game. Yes, it is a little clunky, but that's what gives it some of its charm. Earthbound for the SNES is another I may never get bored with, as it's not only fun, but its downright wacky. Whatever happened to crazy shit like that? I think game developers should start using whatever drugs they used in the past again. Maybe I'm just sick of the Hollywoodising of videogames, and I can't stop techonolgy from progressing. But I can simply stop buying new-age crap and just simply collect old-school stuff. There's enough games to last several lifetimes. It's living in the past, but so what? We are posting on a forum that's all about a genre that's probably dead by now in terms of new stuff coming out anyway.

Wasn't this thread originally about how I think PS1 FF Origins is better than the GBA Dawn of Souls. Of course the NES originals blows both of them away.

P.S. You mentioned pawn shops, flea markets, and thift stores. I'm just about to head out to the local Salvation Army store and see if there any classics worth um...salvaging.

[Neon]

Did I say that emulation was thievery?

No, you didn't. Read what I quoted, however, and who it was from

Anyways, carry on dissing modern games, kids. I'll be playing Outrun 2, Dai ou jou, and soon Mushi...

[PaCrappa]

DOH!

[CMoon]

Sethsez: I'm more confounded by the lack of any need for new hardward right now. Maybe I'll be convinced when Xbox 2 and PS3 come out, but where there are games on the PS1 that clearly begged for bigger and better hardward, I don't feel it yet with the 128 bit systems. To me, these all still feel new and shiny, but I guess they'll be obselete soon (which is good since I can get the games cheap).

Respect for the games, respect for those who make them, respect for the medium itself.

goddamn! I want that as my new sig file!