Insert Credit has officially banned the word 'shmup'

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:26 pm

http://forums.insertcredit.com/viewtopic.php?t=3067

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:10 am

Let's call them space shooters. That's what I say in polite conversation.

Ex_Mosquito · Post by **Ex_Mosquito** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:12 am

hah for good reason too i reckon, i hate the word myself. I just refer to them as shooters

BIG · Post by **BIG** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:35 am

Shmup,shooter,shooting game...what's in a name?

Same shit,different toilet.

BIG-

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:43 am

"Shmups" sounds pretty good to me (pronounced locally)!

It also has:

a) history (even before there were FPS's the term existed -- ZZapp64)

b) recognisability for people in the know, which helps seperate the "shooting games" from the "shmups" in general conversation...

c) the advantage of being much shorter and thus easier to type/write instead of "Shoot 'em ups"

In short I do not understand the "hate" for the term!

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:56 am

haha, i soo agree with the topic.

i used to not mind the word, then ive read some idiots say "hay guys i like SHMUPS, i played a SHUMPS today and it was like totally cool lollol ikaruga adsfkd;:;" a billion times, now i just find it stupid and annoying (still use it tho -_-)

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:02 am

Insert Credit wrote:They were shooters, that's what we called them. Then FPS came along, and it was decided that now THOSE were shooters. Our old scrolling shooters got relegated to 'shoot em ups', which incidentally nobody outside the UK used anyway, and really, aside from X2, when has there been a good shooting game from the UK?? I'm not going to use their word for it.

In japan, they're still called 'shooting games'. If you must qualify the word 'shooter', call it a scrolling shooter.

In conclusion - I bid you all to stop using the word.

Ridiculous. That site can call the games Fruit Loop Blasters or whatever if that's their preference. But "shoot-em-ups" and "SHMUPs" is part of the core history of the genre in Europe and other parts of the west, since ZZAP!64 (I think it was them) coined the term in the 80s.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:47 am

Screw them. Shmups are Copyright and TM of ShmupsForum and CO. Unlimited.

If you say "Scrolling shooter" people are going to stare funny at you. You don't call puzzlers something like "skill-based, geometrical arranging games".

Words like "Walkman" "Blog" "spammer" and such are added everyday to the english language. What's wrong with "Shmups"? NOTHING!

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:50 am

Was anyone really giving much 'credit' (haha) to what Insert Credit was saying after their review of Ketsui anyway?

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:56 am

Ummm......who cares? Shmup is a specific game type, of which there is no other acceptable name for the genre. Until a better name comes along, this one works.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:00 am

I actually agree with the guy 100%; "shmup" is an entirely British-created word that no American has ever used prior to the word being brought over. Even "shoot-em-up" wasn't ever that commonly used in the US.

I tend to always use the term "shooter" unless it might get confused with another genre. Rather than stick to our historical terms, we've pretty much surrendered the "shooter" genre to FPS to instead take on a hardcore, geeky term (at least in the US) popularized solely in a British magazine. Banning the word seems a bit harsh since folks in Europe probably do use the term (how many Europeans knew what a shmup was anyway before reading ZZap64 or seeing this site anyway?) but I agree with his general principles.

Then again, I won't budge by calling them "scrolling shooters" either. "Space shooters" would've worked until non-space shooters popped up. And some folks probably consider Star Fox a space shooter.

In the end, it's not really a big deal.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:05 am

Big freakin' deal. I kinda like the word, though. It makes me think of puppies.

I do so hate the word 'Blog' though. Every where i go now some asshole has to advertise his 'Blog' to me. Hey, Fuck you buddy. Keep your Blog to yourself.

Post by **system11** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:09 am

Ganelon wrote:I actually agree with the guy 100%; "shmup" is an entirely British-created word that no American has ever used prior to the word being brought over. Even "shoot-em-up" wasn't ever that commonly used in the US.

Of course a pedantic note at this point, might be that your entire language is made up on entirely British-created words, aside from the ones you broke.

That aside (and ignoring the fact that we stole half of them from Europe at some point), while the term actually irritates me very slightly, it's the only label we have left that someone else hasn't already re-used. Europe is also bigger than the states. We win

Insert Credit really don't have a leg to stand on either in language terms, while they still feature reviews by Tim Rogers. Every time that imbecile finishes a paragraph, the baby Jesus cries.

Yes, I had a bad day at work today. Yes, I'm taking it out on other people.

jp · Post by jp » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:16 am

Who cares? Get a fucking livejournal... Jesus...

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:25 am

I use the word more online. In person, I'll call them Shooting Games. But people look at me funny no matter what I call them, maybe with some kind of incredulity that people who still play this archaic style of video game actually exist.

What irritates me more is when even online, and you say "shmup", and then some kiddie is like WTF? and then you say it's a shoot-em-up, or old-school shooter, and then they say "Oh, I know what you're talking about, I / my dad used to play those, I think it was called Doom. The graphics really sucked."

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:15 am

I can totally understand why it'd be annoying after awhile as a spoken word. I mean, the only time I say it in real life is with my best friend and brother who also play shooters and who are well familair with the site here even though they're not members. Even then we almost always say "shooter."

If anything, calling a FPS game by the term "shooter" (whoever started that at whatever site or mag needs a good uppercut to the jaw) is almost as silly as saying the word shmup.

But on insert credit, who runs that site? Is it someone who has had a beef here in the past? The strange review for Ketsui really bugged me. Anyone who dislikes a Cave shooter and say it "degrades the genre" (not verbatim) because they think it's too "easy" is well...just not making sense.

It's like saying for instance:

Joe 1: "I really dislike Ms. Pac Man. It really brought old school arcade games to a new low."

Joe 2: 'Really? Why is that?"

Joe1: "Because the addition of moving fruit and a female Pac character was all just so gimmicky and over the top, really. Plus it tends to be too easy."

Joe 2: "Uh huh...."

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:18 am

Bah, I'll just continue to use "shmup" because it's easier to say (and type) than "shooting game" or whatever longer and more cumbersome "proper" title people feel compelled to come up with for some reason. Come on, this is video games we're talking about here, who the heck can be bothered to care that much about the nomenclature therein...

Tar-Palantir · Post by **Tar-Palantir** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:20 am

Dylan1CC wrote: If anything, calling a FPS game by the term "shooter" (whoever started that at whatever site or mag needs a good uppercut to the jaw) is almost as silly as saying the word shmup.

I can't stand the term 'shooter' after I saw Basic Instinct.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:24 am

Tar-Palantir wrote:
Dylan1CC wrote: If anything, calling a FPS game by the term "shooter" (whoever started that at whatever site or mag needs a good uppercut to the jaw) is almost as silly as saying the word shmup.
I can't stand the term 'shooter' after I saw Basic Instinct.

What do you mean? I am not the most avid movie fan.

icepick · Post by **icepick** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:29 am

I always feel as though I'm cussing when I use the word vocally. It simply sounds like something that would insult someone of some particular background...

Online, though, it's a nice shorthand, since I like how it looks, and otherwise I'd be saying (vocally) or typing, "scroll shooting." That's what MileStone call it, that's what G.rev call it; That's what I'll call it. (I know; Not a very strong reasoning.)

Agreed though; "Shooter" is way too broad. Vertical/horizontal/side-scrolling, first-person, light gun, space sim, rail, and so on. Still, when I showed my copy of Trizeal (yaaaaaay! TYMSL!) to my man James at GameStop today, he looked on the back and recognized the style, exclaiming "Oh! It's a shooter!" (I'm only glad that he wasn't being sarcastic. This makes 5/6 straight shooting games since KOF '02.)

So, people will call things as they will. No one can change the world, Insert Credit included. Trying is one of humanity's endearing qualities, though.

(Fine; Animals and bugs too.)

Hmm... Well now (Kosh

), "shooter" is a silly name for FPSes because it's only one aspect of the game, right? At least, sort of? There's usually something else involved, and it's primarily a vehicle for a first-person perspective representation of a virtual world. So, maybe it should be called "FPP" for "First-Person" (yes, you guessed it) "Perspective," probably with another descriptor at the end. It might not even be necessary though, because pretty much all first-person perspective games are about running around and "fragging" or other such, unless it's an adventure game.

My point here, though, is that perhaps "shooter" is a siller term even for our "shmups" -- I remember the discussion regarding the term "dodge-'em-ups," but that's still only part of the equation.

I think that we need to make up an entirely new word. Also, evidently, I need to go to bed.

... "Bullet Fest." You guys, there's this new bullet fest coming out. Oh, somebody hit me with something. Preferably a pillow filled with powdered Unisom.

Edit: They stole "FPS" from "Frames Per Second," too. I was annoyed about that one. They're like leeches, sucking up every useful name and acronym, until there aren't any left, and we have no place to call HOME! Good night.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:33 am

I hereby ban the words insertcredit.com from our vocabulary. (Mods please add lightning to this post for dramatic effect. Thanks.

)

MOD EDIT by TF

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:41 am

I posted the following firm but polite rebuttal:

Hi all. New here. I'm a mod from <forbidden name>.com

I don't see what the big deal is. I go between typing both shooter and "forbidden word" all the time on our boards. Calling a game like Half Life a "shooter" sounds almost as silly as trying to pronounce you-know-what. Also, I gurantee you my friends in real life would raise their eyebrows a bit if I started calling them "scrolling shooters." Well, Half Life scrolls forward and in all directions, that's one heckuva "scrolling shooter" too, dontcha think? In real life I almost never say the word shmup, unless I'm referring to the site. We usually say "shooter" or "2D shooter" which I generally prefer.

The word was never SUPPOSED to replace any game genre terminology. It was simply a funny, weird little catchphrase the C64 magazine Zzzap!64 used to quickly refer to them and which then-reader Malcolm Laurie figured would be a good term to tag on his fan site later.

When I went to E3 2002, I met Jon Dudlak, a fellow shooter fan while checking out Metroid Prime. Here's how the word shmup was used:

Me: "So have you ever been to shmups.com?"

Jon: "Yeah I think so. What site is that again?"

Me: "It's on classicgaming.com (then it was), we review and cover 2D shooters like Raiden, Gradius, ect."

Jon: "Oh yeah, I've been there before. What games have you reviewed?"

So in other words, I don't see the big deal. I have always said "shooter," or even shoot 'em up in real life. Shmups is just a quick abbreviation that comes in handy sometimes for some folks but is unique to our site. Not like I expect any mainstream magazine to start using it and not like I expected Jon D or Shane Bettenhausen to use the word in their Gradius V review this past fall.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:41 am

Is it just me or does the word "shmups" evoke a kiddy connotation based on its sound?

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:50 am

i feel embarrased using the word, and most people dont know what it means anyway so i end upfeeling even more embarrased...

vertical 2d scrolling shooter is a pain in the ass to say though

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:12 am

*reads his post*

I love you, Thunderforce. <3

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:14 am

As far as I see it...insertcredit.com is a cat without a collar living in Wisconsin...

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:38 am

Now taking bets on what random gaming-related word that site will ban next.

"Tate", perhaps, because it sounds too gimmicky and we should say "vertical monitor alignment". Actually, that's too predictable. No... I recommend they ban the phrase "twitch shooters", since talking about them could have too many connotations to heroin abuse

I'm still pretty sure this whole thing by them is just a rather funny joke. And most of the replies here should be taken as such too.

Even if the site is being serious, and the word happens to be one of their pet peeves, it is hardly a real problem whatever they do.

Insert Credit wrote:I know this is gonna start a war with shmups.com, but so it goes.

Nope. No board wars here, you are free to do as you please with your site. At least you're still covering the genre, which is more than most these days.

Post by **Ghegs** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:06 am

Hah, I've even used "the word" while talking to another Finnish person who plays the games of "the word". Sure it sounds a bit weird, but the alternatives are even worse.

Really, I don't see what the big deal is. It's just a word that helps separate a genre from another.

Hey! Let's ban genre-defining names altogether!

Ex_Mosquito · Post by **Ex_Mosquito** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:31 am

since ZZAP!64 (I think it was them) coined the term in the 80s.

I'd never heard the word "shmup" before i found this board, it wasnt as popular in the UK as some people may think. One magazine said it once in the mid-80's or something and over 10 years later it came back to "haunt" us:) All the UK game mags in the late 80's 90's ( C+VG, Mean Machines, Superplay..) all refered to them as shoot em' up's and never shmups.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:44 am

Ex_Mosquito wrote:
since ZZAP!64 (I think it was them) coined the term in the 80s.
I'd never heard the word "shmup" before i found this board, it wasnt as popular in the UK as some people may think. One magazine said it once in the mid-80's or something and over 10 years later it came back to "haunt" us:) All the UK game mags in the late 80's 90's ( C+VG, Mean Machines, Superplay..) all refered to them as shoot em' up's and never shmups.

I agree that the abbreviation didn't seem really widely used beyond ZZAP!64, although it was used more than just once. "Shoot-em-ups" was always the norm in those mags since their style was not to confuse their readers. Internet discussions lend themselves to arcane abbreviations more than magazines or F2F conversations do.

Those magazines also used terms like "playability" instead of "gameplay", and "lastability" instead of "replay value".