How's Saturn Dragon Force?...

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:32 pm

Never played this one, but I became curious about it after getting on the 3D Ages site and seeing that it's one of the newest Sega Ages remakes to come out. Working Designs has a movie of it that I am now downloading. I know this game got a 9.1 from Gamespot; and they're pretty tough customers.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:37 pm

i think its a tactics rpg, and i've only heard the highest praise for it

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:15 pm

I Own it

Its expensive but worth it

Be warned its very reptitive
Graphics are great, troops rock comanders art is great + story rocks.

Months of replay value its not a traditional rpg turnbased type, the combat system is active.

jp · Post by jp » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:20 pm

First 3-4 hours: Great, exciting, addictive.

Anything beyond that: Eye bleedingly boring.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:21 pm

What do you mean by "active"?

I guess I don't fully understand the differences between an RPG and a Strategy-RPG; they both seem to have somewhat similar attacks, in that it's not actually you swingin' the sword, etc.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:28 pm

By active, he means that you command your troops tactics in real time. You have to tell them to split, join, retreat, stand by, etc. Brilliant, but repetitive. Unlike Grandia 2, I was dreading the upcoming battle. If you are going to blow some money on a Saturn RPG, better try Panzer Dragoon Saga. You won't be regret. Guaranteed.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:31 pm

yup, panzer dragoon saga is the only game i own that I wouldnt sell for £100 or more

jp · Post by jp » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:33 pm

Listen to Speci.

Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Wisdom, and Albert Odyssey are all better than Dragon Force, by like, a lot.

And if you really want a strategy RPG then just get a Langrisser game or Wachenroder (sp). Well, if you don't mind Japanese.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:27 am

Specineff wrote:If you are going to blow some money on a Saturn RPG, better try Panzer Dragoon Saga. You won't be regret. Guaranteed.

Great, atmospherically stunning game (even today I love its immersiveness, I can only imagine how it looked back when it was released), but be aware, it's pretty easy, especially once you get the hang of how the battle system works...it's also fairly short. If you're willing to blow the bucks, though, you WILL enjoy it, while it lasts.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:59 am

jp wrote:Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Wisdom, and Albert Odyssey are all better than Dragon Force, by like, a lot.

Disagree. Panzer is fantastic, Shining Wisdom is pretty bad (just stick with Zelda), and Albert Odyssey is just a bog-standard Japanese RPG with nothing at all to make it stand out.

Dragon Force is fantastic as long as you understand that it plays much more like a very involved game of Risk than an RPG.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:18 am

OK, if its anything like risk, I definately wouldn'tn enjoy it.

BTW, anyone hear own PS2 Growlanser Generations? The presentation in that game looks absolutely stunning!

I just can't wait for Dragon Warrior VIII to make it over here; after many delays, IGN lists it as "TBA 2006".

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:34 am

BTW, Dragon Force isn't exactly an SRPG based on the common conception of the term (like Fire Emblem or Shining Force) since it's not fought on a grid. Plays like Romance of the 3 Kingdoms really.

I've got Growlanser Generations although it's probably only for people who want an expanded version of Grandia's battle system. Still prefer Langrisser by a whole lot, a real RPG and the finest of all time IMO.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:43 pm

I owned Panzer Dragoon Saga Sold it for £130 quid a while ago, bought the japanese version mint sealed for £12.50.

I beat it about 10 times still my fav rpg shining force 3 comes close.

If you have a jap ntsc saturn buy the import the extra 200 bucks isn't essential for the english translation, think the game script is on gamefaqs but thats easy for me to say as I know the game like the back of my hand.
Plot is fantastic.

It dosen't work with most import adaptor cartridges. theres a few exceptions I think though.

MovingTarget · Post by **MovingTarget** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:51 pm

Panzer dragoon saga has the best battles ever, like grig orig and infested grig orig (SP?) I fucking love that part of the game, plus the fights with atolm.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:00 pm

Talking about Saturn RPGs...

What's Shining Force 3 like? I am a big fan of the 1st game on the Mega-Drive (Being the only RPG I ever played that I TRULY enjoyed from the beggining right through the end). I know that there are 3 "scenarios", and the last 2 were never released in any other language than Japanese.

Do I have to play all 3 scenarios to enjoy the game at most? Or just the 1st scenario is enough? (I mean, the story has an ENDING, or does it end like "Now play scenario 2" or something?).

And more importantly (hehe), how many blocks of my saturn memory the game will take? I don't feel much like deleting my hi-score boards (9.98s in 100m dash at decathlete !!)...

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:51 pm

Shining Force III draws out like SFI, where there's no real exploration, just battles, towns, and events. It's aright IMO, not nearly as fun as Langrisser.

There's a semi-conclusion to each chapter but it's not satiating at all since the endings of parts I & II lead on to the future. You must play the games in order since the next disc continues where the current one left off, just with a different protagonist. It's funny when you continue from the US version since all the characters you named will appear in English (I guess it takes their custom variable strings, which were already set in English).

Never kept track of block usage though.

jp · Post by jp » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:55 pm

sethsez wrote:
jp wrote:Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Wisdom, and Albert Odyssey are all better than Dragon Force, by like, a lot.
Disagree. Panzer is fantastic, Shining Wisdom is pretty bad (just stick with Zelda), and Albert Odyssey is just a bog-standard Japanese RPG with nothing at all to make it stand out.

Dragon Force is fantastic as long as you understand that it plays much more like a very involved game of Risk than an RPG.

Whooooops. I meant Shining the Holy Ark.

At any rate, I still can't really fathom whats so spectacular about Dragon Force. The presentation is good but there is practically NO gameplay what so ever. Just select the units that win, defend if they attack, do a special formation if they defend, and split up if they have ranged attackers. And thats it. Thats the entire game.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:31 pm

I you enjoyed SF1 you'll love the saturn installment, Its extremely import friendly, 3D landscaped and battles, kick a$$ magics and weapon creation system the premium disc battles are what the real deals about in fact I'm selling a sealed SF3 jap ntsc premium disc soon use to be worth 600$ sadly Mine will be lucky to hit 250-300$

Length of game is about 35 hours of turn based combat, the combined thing will add up to about 120 hrs not to mention the different plot routes, a full english translation is available at shiningforcecentral.com

Graphics and music rock but its still not PDS.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:45 pm

I used to have it. It seemed cool at first, but then later it was like...Why am I playing this!?
It takes a long time to learn how to play properly, even then, it takes hours and hours to play anyway.
Label me under "Been there, done that, no big deal".
Personally, "Lords of Conquest" (Commodore64) or the board game "Risk" would be more worth your time.

BTW: I hope you have a cart memory, or else you'll have to erase everything on the "battery backup" for just one campaign!!!

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:19 pm

I lost ALL 3 CAMPAIGNS! 100 bloody hours of building the perfect force to take on the 8 premium disc battles. File got corrupted..........

Never trust pro action replay, I had to buy a japan saturn to play it again properly. However I only need to repeat scenario 3 as premium disc allows you to create a scenario 3 start file with any of the characters you may have missed or not had the chance to accquire in sc1 or 2 saves playing over I guess downside is I lose all the rings and items I had perfectly distributed.

Be July before I try to beat it fully again.....

I'll Gaijin Smash that memory card

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:40 pm

jp wrote:
sethsez wrote:
jp wrote:Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Wisdom, and Albert Odyssey are all better than Dragon Force, by like, a lot.
Disagree. Panzer is fantastic, Shining Wisdom is pretty bad (just stick with Zelda), and Albert Odyssey is just a bog-standard Japanese RPG with nothing at all to make it stand out.

Dragon Force is fantastic as long as you understand that it plays much more like a very involved game of Risk than an RPG.

Whooooops. I meant Shining the Holy Ark.

At any rate, I still can't really fathom whats so spectacular about Dragon Force. The presentation is good but there is practically NO gameplay what so ever. Just select the units that win, defend if they attack, do a special formation if they defend, and split up if they have ranged attackers. And thats it. Thats the entire game.

That's boiling down the battles (which don't make up the bulk of the gameplay) to their most basic elements. I could do that with any game and make it sound stupid ("all you do in a shooter is move around a bit and press the fire buton over and over. That's it. There's no gameplay at all"). Doesn't mean it's so.

I don't care much about the battles. I enjoyed planning on the map screen and the weekly progress reports far, far more. And really, that's where you spend most of your time. If you don't enjoy that kind of stuff then I could understand why you didn't like it, but there's definitely more to the game than what you said there is, even though I'll admit it's a pretty user-friendly strategy game.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:44 am

TWITCHDOCTOR wrote:I used to have it. It seemed cool at first, but then later it was like...Why am I playing this!?
It takes a long time to learn how to play properly, even then, it takes hours and hours to play anyway.
Label me under "Been there, done that, no big deal".
Personally, "Lords of Conquest" (Commodore64) or the board game "Risk" would be more worth your time.

BTW: I hope you have a cart memory, or else you'll have to erase everything on the "battery backup" for just one campaign!!!

Are we talking about Shining Force 3 here? I got lost in all this talk, heh

If that's the case.... keep in mind I am a BIG fan of Shining Force 1. It's the only RPG I liked (Like I said before)... but if I need to completely erase my battery backup... then I'll think I'll pass it up until I have a memory cart or something (Or maybe when my current battery ends, so I'll have a compulsive reset anyway

)

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:56 am

Memory Wise

Saturn internal memory will not allow you to save your original campaigns as not enough room but you will be able to merge all the files and have a full game continued provided you have 600 blocks of memory 3.

I would advise getting a memory card

I'm selling the Pal version of scenario 1 in good condition, on ebay soon its worth quite a bit though, selling as I own japanese version which is about $70 cheaper!

Playing the english scenario first though would be recommended so that you fully understand the play mechanics.

You Would love it if you enjoyed the first game.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:33 am

Shatterhand wrote:
TWITCHDOCTOR wrote:I used to have it. It seemed cool at first, but then later it was like...Why am I playing this!?
It takes a long time to learn how to play properly, even then, it takes hours and hours to play anyway.
Label me under "Been there, done that, no big deal".
Personally, "Lords of Conquest" (Commodore64) or the board game "Risk" would be more worth your time.

BTW: I hope you have a cart memory, or else you'll have to erase everything on the "battery backup" for just one campaign!!!
Are we talking about Shining Force 3 here? I got lost in all this talk, heh

If that's the case.... keep in mind I am a BIG fan of Shining Force 1. It's the only RPG I liked (Like I said before)... but if I need to completely erase my battery backup... then I'll think I'll pass it up until I have a memory cart or something (Or maybe when my current battery ends, so I'll have a compulsive reset anyway )

No, I was talking about Dragon Force.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:58 pm

Shatterhand wrote:And more importantly (hehe), how many blocks of my saturn memory the game will take? I don't feel much like deleting my hi-score boards (9.98s in 100m dash at decathlete !!)...

OK, I just checked Shining Force III (part 1) for you. 233 blocks for the save file plus 1 extra block (dunno what it's for) for 234 blocks total.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:26 pm

Don't delete the extra block whatever you do. File can corrupt.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:51 pm

Thanx.
233 blocks is a hell lot too much.... I have to get a memory cart soon..

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:12 pm

Yep, memory card is the way to go especially when the saturn battery can die on you and lose the saved data you took soo much time to acquire.

Had like perfect wins in xmen cota when playing big bro, now the proof is gone.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:23 pm

Just out of curiosity, how many blocks does the saturn memory card holds?

And from what I understand, lots of games do NOT save directly to the memory card, I actually have to save into the battery, and then transfer the files to the memory card?

jp · Post by jp » Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:42 pm

Shatterhand wrote:Just out of curiosity, how many blocks does the saturn memory card holds?

And from what I understand, lots of games do NOT save directly to the memory card, I actually have to save into the battery, and then transfer the files to the memory card?

7000+ blocks. Whips the shit out of memory cards.

And yes, some games do not have direct save. Which sucks.