I am building a supergun...

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:14 am

So I've ordered Ibara, am searching for an rgb monitor, and am building a supergun...

I've seen many using ATA PSU's but I'd like to build something smaller. I can't find an sc200 or sw300 anywhere, but maybe I can use the psu from a dreamcast?

there's some info here on the dreamcast psu, but it doesn't mention the amps at all. Should I even worry? It also doesn't have -5v, but I think I can live with that.

so can I use it?

thanks,

King.

General Martok · Post by **General Martok** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:15 am

The sc200 is hard to find as it isn't produced anymore and people on neo-geo.com say that the sw300 is weaker even though it has the same amps...so it might not be powerful enough for Ibara?

I don't know about table tops but you could use a small open frame switching power supply and integrate it inside the supergun. They are cheap and easy to find and better than slaughtering a dc

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:40 am

I don't mind using this dc as the mobo and gd drive are totally dead. I assume it's usuable, and better to use it than just let it sit there.

I'll have a look for the open frame though.

edit: found this...

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... a=215706PS

I guess what I really should do is find out if the dc psu provides the proper amps.

ReKleSS · Post by **ReKleSS** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:56 am

The bottom of the DC says 27W, so I would assume it can supply at least that. No idea how it's divided across the various rails, though.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:55 pm

Ok, well I'm just about ready to put this all together.

Is it necessary to use an AC Line Filter? I noticed this guide mentioning that it's a good idea to use one. I might pass on this thing.

Since my monitor wont have speakers, I'm planning to simply hook up to my 2x12" guitar cabinet which runs at 8 ohms. This should work. That way I wont need an audio attenuation circuit.

wont need an encoder since the monitor will be rgb.

Using the dc psu which should be powerful enough since it can power an optical drive among other things.

edit: oh ya, and I'll have a 10a and 2a fuse on the +5v and +12v lines.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:13 am

ok so all is well and I'm making some progess.

check out my sg building Here

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:41 am

...I don't mean to make you scream, but a note about your controller ports... If you are building them to NeoGeo spec with Atomiswave support (but that's not the important thing I'm trying to say here) and you want to be able to use commercial Neo controllers, you will need male ports on your SG since the Neo controller cables end in a female connector.

Enjoy desoldering :) Or see if you can just stick a gender changer on it.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:43 am

oh it's not soldered on yet. just screwed in. thanks for the heads up though! I should have some male db-15's kicking around

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:44 am

well almost everything is mounted.

I just need to figure out how to setup my audio. Through some threads I found that an audio attenuation circuit is a bad plan and will result in my ibara pcb not outputting any sound.

also, on the 25pin connector of my pvm 2030 I notice there is an audio select and audio in of sorths.

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:pvm-2030

to what should I wire Speaker + and Speaker - to?

and shouldn't I be wiring the 5v+ connection somewhere? or do I just need red, blue, green, and composite sync and Speaker -?

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:34 pm

I would not leave out an attenuation circuit entirely. While the newer cave stuff might be ok without it, you really don't want to run other board's sound output directly into line level inputs.

Either make the attenuation circuit bypassable via a switch, or make it adjustable. I find the speaker->line level converters you can get for car audio installs work well. They're usually adjustable too. Problem is they're really made to be set once and then left alone, so the adjusting screws are annoying to get to.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:16 pm

Everyone I've talked to who knew what they were talking about has told me the audio attenuation is completely worthless. Just turn the volume down on the PCB, it does the exact same thing.

Sound is kind of weird. You can always just get it wired up for RCA and then run that to the TV, which is what I did. The pins for that are weird though, I had to use 10/L if I wanted to run it directed to a speaker, but 10/M if I wanted to run it to an RCA jack. Both of these were for mono output though, if you want support for stereo, you'll need a different setup. :I

I'm still looking into what exactly you need for the DB-25 to work, I was thinking it was probably just R/G/B/S and Gnd just for picture.

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:01 am

I've been playing around with custom connectors on my Sony PVM 2530 and these are a few things I did.

For audio, I wired up some RCA/Phono jacks and grounded Pin 2 on the DB-25 which is the audio select on the PVM. This allows audio to be inputed from Line A/Line B on the PVM. From there I just have two 8 ohm speakers connected to the PVM via the Speaker L/R terminal.

For the 5V+ you need to connect that to Pins 9, 10, and 12. This will select whether it's in Analog or Composite. You'll want analog for this.

This is the thread I'm using as a reference given to my by cody.

Sony PVM Pinout

You can also find the operating manual online for this model with more detailed information.

Hope this helps. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

-David

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:37 pm

new monitor is working fine.

I've been told that it is best to measure the voltage on the powersupply to make sure that it's exactly 5v and 12v as some can vary a bit.

would I simply set my mulimeter to around 12v ac and tough both ends of the 12v and then 5v pin that the powersupply connects to on the dreamcast?

ReKleSS · Post by **ReKleSS** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:27 pm

You want DC voltage, most cheap multimeters I've seen have a 20VDC range. Touch one probe to the 12V/5V pin and the other to ground. The problem is that the voltage will change under load - I wouldn't worry as long as the voltage reading is within 0.5V of what you expect.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:56 pm

thanks,

my multimeter was labeled a bit funny but I figured it out.

I was able to measure the +5v easily, but my mm settings go from 10 to 50 so I wan't able to properly measure the +12v. I'm sure it's fine though. Going ahead.

thanks again,

King,

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:34 am

I'm wondering how I should wire my audio to the tv.

I don't plan on using an attenuation circuit, but should I simply wire the positive wire to the L+R points on a stereo 1/8" plug, and from there adapt to the tv with L+R rca?

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 pm

I had a bit of trouble getting my audio to work properly. For RCA, I just ran pins 10 & M to an RCA jack directly, and only have mono output (that's all Cave PCBs do anyway). To run the sound directly to speakers though, you wire them to 10 & L.

Not sure about 1/8" though as I didn't try that. Probably just wire 10 to both points and then M to ground and it should work. I'd personally just use an RCA jack myself.

MKL · Post by **MKL** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:12 pm

Pin M shouldn't be used as audio ground because on the majority of boards it's not connected (i.e. it's not a ground) while you want a supergun to be compatible with as many boards as possible.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:16 pm

So just wire it up to any other ground then?

aphexacid · Post by **aphexacid** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:38 am

Ive wanted a supergun for years. is there any special tutorial you're following? or a noobs guide to supergun's?

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:24 am

hey, thanks for the tips! so I'm thinking I'll wire to a stereo 1/8" plug with the 10 pin wired to L and R. From there I'll just use a 1/8" to rca adapter.

I'll pick up some cheapo speakers from the thrift store to use incase they blow. I should think that the preamp in my tv

aphexacid wrote:Ive wanted a supergun for years. is there any special tutorial you're following? or a noobs guide to supergun's?

kind of a combination of things as there doesn't seem to be a noobproof guide hanging around.

using this guide

http://www.chadsarcade.co.uk/oldsite/Su ... nIndex.htm

referencing this pinout

http://www.gamesx.com/arcade/jamma.htm

this schematic has saved my life too

http://www.gamesx.com/arcade/cheapjamma.htm

the difference between my supergun and what almost everyone else is making, is that mine has no ntsc encoder so you can use the composite, svideo, or component on your tv. I'm using an actual rgb monitor. So my supergun is probably only costing me around $30 maybe.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:34 pm

ok so I've tested my voltage lines and it looks like this..

+5v line is at 5.00

+12v line is at 12.71

is the 12v too high? should i use a different psu now?

EDIT: NVM the 12v on the dc psu is adjustable with the orange dial. Only the 12v is adjustable it seems. Good news! the 12v is now at 12.02 so I think I'm good.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:08 pm

Question for you or anyone else... if you are wiring straight from the Jamma to an RGB out (in this case, a Sony PVM), do you need to use resistors on any of the R/G/B/S signals?

The reason I'm wondering is because right now, I have it just wired strait up, and the game is coming out somewhat washed out. In the color test, the top 1/3 colors are all solid white instead of a gradient. Adjusting the TV helps a little, but doesn't solve the problem.

There's also a little bleeding, with everything bleeding a little bit as it gets to the right side of the picture (which would be the top in TATE). That might be the TV though, but I didn't notice it when using S-Video.

Could also be I'm missing or have one of the other things wired wrong. Here's my pinout:

2 - Audio Select - GND
3 - Sync
4 - Blue
5 - Green
6 - Red
9 - Analog RGB - +5v
10 - RGB Mode - +5v
12 - Blanking - +5v
15 - GND
19 - GND
24 - GND

Everything else is disconnected.

I've also heard you should use a 100ohm resistor on the +5v but I'm not sure if it matters or not here.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:36 am

Gwyrgyn Blood wrote:Question for you or anyone else... if you are wiring straight from the Jamma to an RGB out (in this case, a Sony PVM), do you need to use resistors on any of the R/G/B/S signals?

The reason I'm wondering is because right now, I have it just wired strait up, and the game is coming out somewhat washed out. In the color test, the top 1/3 colors are all solid white instead of a gradient. Adjusting the TV helps a little, but doesn't solve the problem.

There's also a little bleeding, with everything bleeding a little bit as it gets to the right side of the picture (which would be the top in TATE). That might be the TV though, but I didn't notice it when using S-Video.

Could also be I'm missing or have one of the other things wired wrong. Here's my pinout:

2 - Audio Select - GND
3 - Sync
4 - Blue
5 - Green
6 - Red
9 - Analog RGB - +5v
10 - RGB Mode - +5v
12 - Blanking - +5v
15 - GND
19 - GND
24 - GND

Everything else is disconnected.

I've also heard you should use a 100ohm resistor on the +5v but I'm not sure if it matters or not here.

why are 15, 19, and 24 grounded? I read that 15-24 are ground but it seems that only one needs to be grounded. I bought a dc-PVM' cable that has only 24 grounded. It also uses some capacitors inside the cable. So maybe it's a good idea since most rgb signals are too strong?

personally, I soldered each pin from 15 to 24 as ground :p

but ya, should we have some capacitors and/or resistors on the rgb output?

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:43 pm

GNDing 15,19,24 was from a pinout from an SCART converter actually. Yeah it's not really necessary really.

Also now that I think about it, we're probably supposed to hook up Potentiometers to them so the RGB levels can be adjusted.

KBZ · Post by **KBZ** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:56 pm

Gwyrgyn Blood wrote:GNDing 15,19,24 was from a pinout from an SCART converter actually. Yeah it's not really necessary really.

Also now that I think about it, we're probably supposed to hook up Potentiometers to them so the RGB levels can be adjusted.

right, that's probably a good idea since some boards have a higher rgb outputs that others.
A quick google shows that 1k pots are a good way to go.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:28 pm

Alright good, I'll check Radio Shack tonight ... hopefully they have some. :I

My biggest problem right now is I bought this supergun and man it was just a mess everywhere, I've had to redo almost the entire thing short of the joysticks and power switch. I don't know if I even have the room internally to fit the potentiometers safely. Really I should just buy a bigger project box and redo the thing from scratch. I'll probably do that some day.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:58 am

Okay, I went out and bought a small PC board and 3 1k Potentiometers and wired the thing up. I couldn't find a lot of info on how to wire the thing up properly so I just took an estimated guess, and it worked. That was indeed all it needed too, I adjusted the levels and now it looks great.

Actually the biggest difference really is now I can notice how off the colors were adjusted on the S-Video. The image quality between S-Video and RGB is pretty overrated, but it does look better.

And if you want to see a good example of how not to build a supergun, here you go: http://www.dragoninstall.com/junk/Supergun%20012.jpg

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:35 am

When I had mine built I requested a box that was big enough to get your hands in for easy access.

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:16 pm

Yeah I bought this one used and it was probably one of his earlier ones too. To be fair though, it is very neat and compact once you close it up, and it works just fine now. But I might end up gutting this one and building my own in a much larger case so I can make it very clean and nice inside.