Is Mame as good as a PCB or console conversion?

Tigershark · Post by **Tigershark** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:41 pm

Just a thought.

I don't own a supergun etc but do own several consoles upon which I play a miriad of shooters.

I also play Mame games.

In attempting to decide whether my console games are better than their Mame counterparts it seems to me that the only obvious difference is in control. I find some Mame games a bit slouchy in the movement of my ship.

I'm sure there are many specific examples that many of you can come up with but all in all is Mame a faithful replication of the real thing or a poor second cousin?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:51 pm

Although this smells like a setup to a long Consoles v.s. Mame thread, I'll just state the obvious. Depending upon the console port in question, and the PC hardware + Mame version used, they are both faithful replication of the real thing. Your sluggish controls on Mame PC can be fixed, if thats your real concern.

Tigershark · Post by **Tigershark** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:55 pm

I have no intention of setting up that argument I can assure you!

I use Mame32 because it's easy and works out of the box. It's easy for me because I can just Tate my LCD screen and away I go. Some of the earlier games look a bit shite because of the high resolution of the screen but post 96 shooters look great and play well.

I like console shooters because I own the game, I get artwork, and you get extras and easier high score saves etc etc.

I'm going to buy Donpachi for the PS1 neext as I love the Mame game but want to own it (if you get my meaning).

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:56 pm

Emulation is sometimes 100% perfect, sometimes 80%, sometimes less. Depends on what hardware the PCB runs on, how keen the MAME team are to get 100% perfection.

As for console ports, its the same thing really, except in some cases i'm sure a console port has "port" specific code to get it to run the way the PCB does as the team is always professional and highly paid to do it.

The two biggest differences imo are -

1) Control
2) 31khz vs 15khz monitor

Lastly, MAME is not going to port everything out there so sometimes the PCB is the only choice. Unfortunately this is a wide open subject as there is not a single answer for all emulated games.

yojo! · Post by **yojo!** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:14 pm

Last time I played Nebula Ray on Mame it did not have the usual disclaimer that video and sound emulations were not 100% correct. From owning the PCB I can assure you that it's far away from the real thing. Get a supergun; you'll only get back to MAME to try stuff out before forking the $ for the PCBs.

Post by **undamned** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:23 pm

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:27 pm

undamned wrote:

+1

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:49 pm

undamned wrote:

+1

Tigershark · Post by **Tigershark** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:40 pm

and what's that supposed to mean?

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:53 pm

Tigershark wrote:and what's that supposed to mean?

Here in this forum that's one of the ways of saying that your topic is no good because it's either stupid/unnecessary/pointless/has been discussed ad nauseam or is a combination thereof.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:00 pm

For Tigershark,

Why not just break down and buy a cheap-ass Supergun like a MAK Supergun and get budget arcade shmup titles and see how better it is play with "real" arcade hardware and software Vs. Mame...you will be surprised! ^_~

Sure, I've used DosMame, Mame32, Raine to gauge as whether or not to buy such arcade shmup PCBs...I was glad to try 'em out before taking the expensive splurge for such arcade PCBs (i.e. -- the Cave produced arcade PCBs like DP, DDP, DDP-DOJ, etc.)... ^_~

Plus the fact that you live in the UK, then it wouldn't be that hard to pick up such low-resolution monitor with 15.7 kHz input piped from the Supergun...easy as pie. ^_~

Sure, if you want the best, then a Japanese Sigma Supergun is the way to go -- assuming that you got the $$$ for one though... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Tigershark · Post by **Tigershark** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:01 pm

Charming.

How about providing some linkage? I haven't been here as long as most and the search function doesn't always reveal what you're after.

I had no idea it was so elite here.

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:13 pm

For Tigershark,

Here's link to an older post regarding Superguns -- or rather BYO (Building Your Own) Supergun project... ^_~

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=2040

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:31 pm

Tigershark wrote:Charming.

How about providing some linkage? I haven't been here as long as most and the search function doesn't always reveal what you're after.

I had no idea it was so elite here.

It depends on every game anyway. For example, Dodonpachi runs perfectly on MAME (100% like the original PCB), but has some minor graphics and speed differences (maybe sound too?) in the PS2 and Saturn versions.

But I guess there are games that aren't perfectly emulated (and many are not emulated at all), so when they have ports it is likely that their ports are better.

So just consider your options depending on which game you want to play. Seek info on a particular game.

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:35 pm

PROMETHEUS wrote:
Tigershark wrote: It depends on every game anyway. For example, Dodonpachi runs perfectly on MAME (100% like the original PCB), but has some minor graphics and speed differences (maybe sound too?) in the PS2 and Saturn versions.

Yeah, crappy PS2 DDP port with blurry graphics!

PC Engine Fan X! · Post by **PC Engine Fan X!** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:42 pm

P_HAT wrote:
PROMETHEUS wrote:
Tigershark wrote: It depends on every game anyway. For example, Dodonpachi runs perfectly on MAME (100% like the original PCB), but has some minor graphics and speed differences (maybe sound too?) in the PS2 and Saturn versions.
Yeah, crappy PS2 DDP port with blurry graphics!

Shouldn't that be so-so Sega Saturn DDP port and a better PSX DDP port from SPS?

I thought that the PS2 Ibara port from Taito with blurry graphics sucked big time...now if it had be properly done with the likes from Arika (like how they did their PS2 ports of DDP-DOJ and ESPgaluda), then it would've been cool...

Of course, the only other alternative is to pick up such an Ibara PCB and voila, no more blurriness...problem solved! Sure, by going this route, would set one back some serious $$$..... ^_~

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Tigershark · Post by **Tigershark** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:47 pm

I have Ibara. Since it's not emulated and I have not played the arcade it's fine by me but bloody tough if you go for score rather than survival. It does go to show that IN MY OPINION the DC has better shooters since you can play them with absolute clarity through a PC monitor (and I'm no Cave fan boy).

worstplayer · Post by **worstplayer** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:46 pm

Isn't Dodonpachi in MAME sped up? I heard there's much more slowdown in real thing.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:17 pm

This forum can be a bit elitist but at the same time this subject is done to death already.

DDP PCB has the most slowdown out of any of the versions. I know because I read the other 10 threads about it.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:21 pm

worstplayer wrote:Isn't Dodonpachi in MAME sped up? I heard there's much more slowdown in real thing.

no I played on a real PCB recently and it seemed to play exactly the same to me

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:38 pm

Dave_K. wrote:Although this smells like a setup to a long Consoles v.s. Mame thread, I'll just state the obvious. Depending upon the console port in question, and the PC hardware + Mame version used, they are both faithful replication of the real thing. Your sluggish controls on Mame PC can be fixed, if thats your real concern.

How do you fix the controller lag, i would love to know

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:40 pm

Yeah, a DDP PCB in perfect condition is pretty much the same speed in MAME.

Sonic R · Post by **Sonic R** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:12 pm

worstplayer wrote:Isn't Dodonpachi in MAME sped up? I heard there's much more slowdown in real thing.

legend has it that the Sega Saturn DoDonPachi is run at fastest speeds. PlayStation has "wait", not to be confuse with slow down button, which is supposed to make it run at proper speed.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:50 pm

lawnspic wrote: How do you fix the controller lag, i would love to know

As far as I'm aware, its certain models of cheap converters that introduce lag. Other factors are a motherboard that only supports USB 1.0 and Win98/ME driver issues. Personally I've never experienced any lag with my PS2->USB converters. I used to use KiKiJoy converters, but they broke, so now I just use some random dual PS2 converter you find on ebay and it works great on Win2000 and WinXP.

Twiddle wrote:Yeah, a DDP PCB in perfect condition is pretty much the same speed in MAME.

Actually Mame is still faster, although its only noticeable on a couple boss patterns and most of stage 5/6. The problem is DDP's native refresh is 57hz, while mame drives your screen at 60hz...making it a bit faster.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:04 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:This forum can be a bit elitist

And the award for "Understatement Of The Year" goes to...

*drumroll*

neorichieb1971!!!

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:08 am

My take on this:

If I had the money to afford PCBs and have the room to store them then I would go for the PCB/Supergun direction.

But because I'm low on the cash I can't do that. So here are my choices: Console Ports or MAME.

Depending on the game MAME does a really good job on emulating. In matter of fact I just ordered a S-Video cable so I can get video feed from the Laptop to the SDTV. True S-Video can only go up to 640 x 480, but most MAME games in general run in 320 x 240 (unless you're playing the Sega System 32 games, and something like NARC which runs in 520 x 400). So if you get a that cable, a Saturn controller or Joystick hooked up to your computer, and MAME you got yourself another console.

AWJ · Post by **AWJ** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:09 am

Dave_K. wrote:Actually Mame is still faster, although its only noticeable on a couple boss patterns and most of stage 5/6. The problem is DDP's native refresh is 57hz, while mame drives your screen at 60hz...making it a bit faster.

Don't spread misinformation. MAME runs games at their true refresh rate (as long as the devs know what the correct rate is for the hardware) It skips or doubles-up frames if the host display can't exactly match the target refresh rate. It's only the derivative "SmoothMAME" that forces all games to run at 60FPS.

Mortificator · Post by **Mortificator** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:00 am

The additional features of MAME are worth mentioning. Savestates, overclocking to eliminate slowdown, throttle, built-in cheats, replay and screenshot recording, fully remappable control assignments and autofire... console ports may offer some of there features, but none can offer all of them. You may not use evey feature (I've never made a replay), but they're there, and still count as pros.

henry dark · Post by **henry dark** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:57 am

My MAME version of Batrider started messing up- when I start it the screen is upside down.

I'd get a cab if I had any room...

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:06 am

yojo! wrote:Last time I played Nebula Ray on Mame it did not have the usual disclaimer that video and sound emulations were not 100% correct. From owning the PCB I can assure you that it's far away from the real thing. Get a supergun; you'll only get back to MAME to try stuff out before forking the $ for the PCBs.

Elevator Action II/Returns doesn't have the disclaimer, but there are some effects missing. If you shoot a ceiling lamp out while playing in MAME, the lights don't go out on that floor.

Both have their strong points. The console versions often have extra content not found in the MAME/PCB ones (Hyper Duel Saturn mode, DDPDOJ Death Label, etc). Even on 32-bit systems some console ports are less than perfect (i.e. Kyuukyoku Tiger 2+ has some minor graphic differences). I'd say it's a draw, since MAME, PCBs, and console versions each have their own advantages.

MAME is great as a backup for CPS I/II/III games (and some others) in case you lose the board to the suicide battery.